| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Radagast |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 22:18:54
I need to quit going to the internetmonk site so much but it is interesting to read how more disinfranchised evangelicals are looking deeper at their faith and coming to "catholic" conclusions.
Here is another interesting blog - Craig Allert’s A High View of Scripture? as reviewed at the internetmonk site. It looks at the development of the Canon from the first two centuries through the Church fathers and comes to the conclusion that the Church played a role in closing the canon. Interesting read with monk asking questions and making comments like... "More and more evangelicals are moving toward Rome, and reading work like Allert’s will move many of them further in that direction..."
Peace,
Radagast |
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Astralis |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 06:52:41
The music has got to change. |
| Radagast |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 06:36:51
quote:
In the end, liturgical reform is the key--ensuring proper priestly and lay liturgical formation, grounded in the actual Vatican II and subsequent documents from the Holy Father and CDW, rather than relying on the (thankfully) waning generation of 70s-era liturgists.
Amen to that. |
| Theophilus |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 08:34:22
Allen,
quote:
Also, Liturgy done well and reverently is obviously more attractive - even if objectively both have the Real Presence.
Absolutely. In reading my note, I was afraid it came down harshly on those who appreciate the TLM, which was not my intent. I eagerly await Benedict's Motu Proprio allowing broader use of it within the Latin Rite, and I wish more parishes simply offered that Latin Novus Ordo, because sticking to the Latin rubrics makes it harder for ad-libbing.
My issue is more with those groups who use the TLM as a marketing tool to draw people away from the Church (perhaps without even realizing it). It can be difficult to discern SSPX or SSPV from an FSSP parish unless one looks closely.
When I lived in Cincinnati, I knew of at least one parish that deliberately blurred the lines, and they were not very forthcoming about whether they had permission of the archbishop to perform the TLM.
In the end, liturgical reform is the key--ensuring proper priestly and lay liturgical formation, grounded in the actual Vatican II and subsequent documents from the Holy Father and CDW, rather than relying on the (thankfully) waning generation of 70s-era liturgists. |
| Radagast |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 22:12:35
As been said above I think it really comes down to the gimick aspect. There was a time when I felt that hook ( I was weaker in my Catholic faith at the time), looking at some of the mission churches and the like and wondering "Am I doing enough? Am I missing something here?". I then went back and checked on a friend who was in a particular mission church and they had switched flavors, to a purpose driven church, because they had switched pastors.
I guess there is also some of this in the Catholic Church but from my perspective it must be under the radar because I never notice it. I appreciate a Mass with a Priest who can really deliver a homily, yet I get the same holiness feeling from my priest who goes on about baseball during his homilies and repeats his point a dozen times.
I guess it still comes down to that marketing element - how do you get more members in your church and I am not sure if mixing business and faith is always a good thing. Like for instance the orthodontist who advertises on the local Christian radio station as being a Christian orthodontist. What does that mean? Should I assume he has a higher moral value? And what am I to think when I find out he charges the highest prices and performs procedures that are unnecesary on over half his clients? What does Christianity have to do with a dog kennel... you get the picture.
So... fads and marketing ploys in Christianity in my opinion attract the luke warm but do nothing to deepen spiritual need.
Peace,
Radagast |
| alcovey |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 18:42:29
I was thinking in terms of various liturgical settings other than Catholic - Lutheran, Episcopalian possibly even post-evangelicals seeking to be more 'catholic'. I think you're right about the trad groups within Catholicism, though. Also, Liturgy done well and reverently is obviously more attractive - even if objectively both have the Real Presence. |
| Theophilus |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 18:00:21
Allen,
I agree, but I see in some ultra-trad Catholic groups the use of the TLM as a gimmick to draw in people who may be disaffected by the state of liturgy in their parishes. |
| alcovey |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 15:00:02
Liturgy for liturgy's sake can be just another fad. Without the objective Real Presence, I would not really understand it's appeal except that it's historic. |
| JustaServant |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 14:31:46
One aspect I have only seen a few talk about is the danger of looking at liturgy as just another gimmick to bring people into church. The form of Godliness must have the Power behind it. |
| Theophilus |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 13:04:01
It works in the short-term, but then leaves folks wanting, so they go to something else, unless the marketer-pastors re-launch the brand that is their church. The shelf-life of some of these "programs" isn't much longer than that of an ad campaign for dish soap. The message wears out, and the marketer has to find something new to energize their consumer.
We've seen it the past few years, moving from "The Purpose Driven Life," to incorporating "The Secret" into sermons, and so on.
Some of what passes for preaching in the non-denominational, evangelical community churches is almost like pablum. It waters down the message so that it's hardly even possible to discern where Christ is preached. But, hey, they've got a great band and an espresso bar, so that makes it ok.
What they are counting on is that people don't realize what is missing, or that people would rather stick with what's comfortable. They also count on people leaving a more liturgical tradition, thinking the grass is greener on the other side.
|
| Astralis |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 07:58:14
There is a longing for something deeper once they realize it's missing. I believe that all the gimmicks one finds in the Evangelical churches with the plethora of programming is a consequence of lacking the fullness of the faith. None of the programming works, though, because it's eventually replaced with new gimmicky programming. |
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