| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| alcovey |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 19:15:14
It is time for PART II. Feel free to read ahead and comment as you see fit.
1. The Necessity of Prayer
"2. I especially counsel you to practice mental prayer, the prayer of the heart, and particularly that which centers on the life and passion of our Lord...
...We must pause here Philothea, and I assure you that we cannot go to God the Father except through this gate. ...so also in this world by our own efforts we could not successfully contemplate the godhead unless it had been united to the sacred humanity of our Savior....
6. If you follow my advice, Philothea, you will say your Pater, Ave Maria, and Credo in Latin, but you should also learn to understand well the words in your own language so that while saying them in the common language of the Church you can also appreciate the wonderful and beautiful meaning of those holy prayers. They must be said with strict attention of mind and with affections aroused by the meaning of the words. Do not hurry along and say many things but try to speak from your heart. A single Our Father said with feeling has greater value than many said quickly and hurriedly.
7. The rosary is a very useful form of prayer, provided you know how to say it properly. To do this, get one of the little books that teach us the way to recite it....
8. During vocal prayer if you find your heart drawn and invited to interior or mental prayer, don't refuse to take it up. Let our mind turn very gently in that direction and don't be conerneed at not finishing the vocal prayer you intended to say. The mental prayer you substitute for them is more pleasing to God and more profitable for our soul..."
I got a lot out of this section. I loved how he stressed mental and vocal prayers. I was talking to some cradle Catholics and they were expressing how they knew the vocal prayers but did not really know how to pray freely. I'm just the opposite.
An interesting tidbit in this portion was this comment: "This (mental prayer) should be done some hours after your meal, since if it were right away and before digestion had advanced, you would be drowy and you health might be injured." - I wonder what he meant?
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| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| alcovey |
Posted - 07/07/2004 : 20:49:38
Bumping the thread for continuing our study. |
| alcovey |
Posted - 01/21/2004 : 08:50:25
On the Rosary:
"The greatest method of praying is to pray the Rosary." St. Francis de Sales.
"When the Holy Rosary is said well, it gives Jesus and Mary more glory and is more meritorious than any other prayer." St. Louis de Montfort
"The Holy Rosary is the storehouse of countless blessing." Bl. Alan de la Roche
St. Jerome tells us that "the truths contained in the Hail Mary are so
sublime, so wonderful that no man or Angel could fully understand them."
"The Rosary is THE weapon." St. Padre Pio
"The Rosary is my favourite prayer. A marvellous prayer! Marvellous in its simplicity and in its depth. . .the simple prayer of the Rosary beats the rhythm of human life." Pope John Paul II.
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| alcovey |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 12:22:07
quote:
Originally posted by Theophilus
Allen,
Are we ready to get into Part Third?
Forgive me for not responding, I am just now seeing this post! 
I was hoping to finish up with PART II before going on to III. Some were still posting in PART I and I think there is many points we could still explore in PART II.
So, maybe we could refresh ourselves in PART II and I will get ready to proceed.
Again, sorry.
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| Theophilus |
Posted - 09/04/2003 : 19:38:01
Allen,
Are we ready to get into Part Third?
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| alcovey |
Posted - 08/27/2003 : 10:47:29
quote:
Originally posted by Admin
quote:
I have been incredibly moved by the Catholic emphasis on the Lord's Passion - to me, this is the heartbeat of the Gospel message and the key to our relationship with the Father.
No doubt. Another aspect of Catholicism is the emphasis on daily reflection of the incarnation. As a former Protestant, I rarely thought of it - and never reflected upon it.
Yes, The Incarnation is so vital. In fact, the Passion itself is the ultimate expression of the Incarnation. And as we reflect on the Mass, where the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ is offered up as a perpetual* Sacrifice.
But also, as you said, to reflect on the Incarnation - to meditate upon His sinless life, His ministry, etc. And in the Rosary, we come to appreciate His Mother's perspective as well. - I can't say as I had any real appreciation for these things either. They just aren't taught in most circles.
(* Just to clarify, Jesus was sacrificed 'once for all' - the Mass is not a 'new' sacrifice, and by 'perpetual' I mean it in the same sense that Jesus is now in Heaven as the Perpetual Lamb of God Who 'ever lives to make intercession'. The Mass is a participation of the Divine Heavenly Liturgy, in which we participate in the true Body and Blood of Our Lord.)
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| Astralis |
Posted - 08/27/2003 : 10:02:08
quote:
Do the converts to Catholicism ever miss the more casual approach from their Evangelical past?
Allen,
Catholics have always had both. This is what I discovered when I moved to Catholicism. It is the Protestants who haven't experienced the other forms of prayer.
quote:
I have been incredibly moved by the Catholic emphasis on the Lord's Passion - to me, this is the heartbeat of the Gospel message and the key to our relationship with the Father.
No doubt. Another aspect of Catholicism is the emphasis on daily reflection of the incarnation. As a former Protestant, I rarely thought of it - and never reflected upon it. |
| alcovey |
Posted - 08/27/2003 : 09:52:05
quote:
Originally posted by alcovey
1. The Necessity of Prayer
"2. I especially counsel you to practice mental prayer, the prayer of the heart, and particularly that which centers on the life and passion of our Lord...
...We must pause here Philothea, and I assure you that we cannot go to God the Father except through this gate. ...so also in this world by our own efforts we could not successfully contemplate the godhead unless it had been united to the sacred humanity of our Savior....
6. If you follow my advice, Philothea, you will say your Pater, Ave Maria, and Credo in Latin, but you should also learn to understand well the words in your own language so that while saying them in the common language of the Church you can also appreciate the wonderful and beautiful meaning of those holy prayers. They must be said with strict attention of mind and with affections aroused by the meaning of the words. Do not hurry along and say many things but try to speak from your heart. A single Our Father said with feeling has greater value than many said quickly and hurriedly.
7. The rosary is a very useful form of prayer, provided you know how to say it properly. To do this, get one of the little books that teach us the way to recite it....
8. During vocal prayer if you find your heart drawn and invited to interior or mental prayer, don't refuse to take it up. Let our mind turn very gently in that direction and don't be conerneed at not finishing the vocal prayer you intended to say. The mental prayer you substitute for them is more pleasing to God and more profitable for our soul..."
I got a lot out of this section. I loved how he stressed mental and vocal prayers. I was talking to some cradle Catholics and they were expressing how they knew the vocal prayers but did not really know how to pray freely. I'm just the opposite.
An interesting tidbit in this portion was this comment: "This (mental prayer) should be done some hours after your meal, since if it were right away and before digestion had advanced, you would be drowy and you health might be injured." - I wonder what he meant?
Does anyone have any thoughts on prayer? I'm curious on what the bulk of each person's prayer life is - more the recited 'learned' prayers or more the 'free flowing' kind. As I mentioned, I come from a tradition that is exclusively free flowing, extremely casual and conversational. - And this can be quite beneficial. But I have come to appreciate the Rosary, the Chaplet, the Traditional Catholic Prayers as well. Do the converts to Catholicism ever miss the more casual approach from their Evangelical past?
I don't see it as 'either/or' - in fact, what I hear deSales saying is that we need both. He might mean more by 'mental prayer' than many practice though - it seems to entail meditation and attention to the mysteries, such as the Lord's Life and Passion. I have been incredibly moved by the Catholic emphasis on the Lord's Passion - to me, this is the heartbeat of the Gospel message and the key to our relationship with the Father.
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| Astralis |
Posted - 08/12/2003 : 00:55:57
Indeed they do!
The nosegays are delightful! They keep coming back all day long.
I truly have found that this book has made me more devout every day in only the one chapter that I've read. |
| Theophilus |
Posted - 08/11/2003 : 10:01:15
Allen,
I find Part II of tremendous value. I have a difficult time with "winging it" with prayer. The idea of having a structure of some kind for evening prayer, morning prayer, meditations, and ejaculatory prayers is very helpful to me, as well as some ideas on how to participate actively in the Mass.
The idea of daily examination of conscience is one that has been advocated for centuries, but rarely followed. I wonder how much purer our interactions would be with each other if each morning we all truly committed ourselves to foreseeing the day ahead and resolving how to manage certain instances, then that night thinking about when we failed to live up to our calling, repenting of venial sins, and noting any mortal sins that we should take to the Sacrament of Reconciliation at our earliest opportunity.
I truly have found at times that, when I have resolved in a meeting with so-and-so that I would be humble and charitable, and not be quick to judge them, that, during the meeting, when tempted, I am more able to hold my tongue and be humble and charitable. When I have made resolutions to that effect regarding my interactions on the forum, similar things happened. Would that I were more persistent with that.
In short, doing the meditations does indeed create little nosegays that, over the day, linger and come back when needed.
How I love this book! |
| alcovey |
Posted - 08/10/2003 : 07:10:57
8. Careful Useful Instructions on the Subject of Meditation
"Most of all, Philothea, after you rise from meditatin you must remmeber the resolutions and decisions you have made and carefully put them into effect on that very day. This is the great fruit of meditation and without it meditation is often not only useless but even harmful. Virtues meditated on but not practiced sometimes inflate our minds and courage and we think that we are really such as we thought and resolved to be. Certailnly this is true if our resolution are lively and solid; they are not such, but even vain and dangerous if we do not practice them."
Of course, this puts me immediately in mind of James warnings to be 'doers of the Word':
quote:
James 1: (RSV)
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
23 For if any one is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who observes his natural face in a mirror;
24 for he observes himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like.
25 But he who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer that forgets but a doer that acts, he shall be blessed in his doing.
26 If any one thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this man’s religion is vain.
27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
I don't think we can hear this principle enough! I think that is why the N.T. is so full of warnings of this nature.
"You must even accustom yourself to know how to pass from prayer to all the various duties your vocation and state of life rightly and lawfully require of you, even though they appear far different from the affections you recieved in prayer."
True for soldier or housewife or concrete worker!
9. The Dryness Sometime Experienced in Meditation
"If it should happen that you find no joy or comfort in meditation, Philothea, I urge you not to be disturbed but to open your heart's door to words of vocal prayer....
...Sometimes you can arouse your heart by some act or movement of exterior devotion, such as prostrating yourself on the ground, crossing your hands before your breast, or embracing a crucifix. It is understoood that you are in some retired place.
After this if you have not recieved any cosolation do not be disturbed, no matter how great the dryness may be, but continue to keep a devout posture before God."
I would say it's not 'if' but 'when'! I think God tests our hearts with dry times, as well as life's circumstances. This is when the fruit of perseverence is called for. So many take dryness to mean 'well, it must not be the Lord's will - because if it was, I would feel more excitement.' - We need to guard against that one.
10. The Morning Exercise
"In addition to complete, formal, mental prayer and the various vocal prayers that we should say during the day, there are five other shorter kinds of prayer."
What did you get from this section? Did you find these types of prayers beneficial? Please expound.
11. The Evening Exercise and Examination of Conscience
Again, any comments on this section?
12. Spiritual Retreat
"When the father and mother of St. Catherine of Siena deprived her of all opportunity for time and place to pray and mediate, our Lord inspired her to build a little oratory within her soul where she could retire mentally and enjoy this holy heartfelt solitude while going about her outward duties, Afterwards w |
| Astralis |
Posted - 08/06/2003 : 13:22:32
Thank you Allen! |
| alcovey |
Posted - 08/06/2003 : 13:16:12
OK, I'm finally getting back to posting on our reading! (I have started several times, and keep getting interupted)
2. A Short Method of Meditation, and First of the Presence of God, Which Is the First Point of the Preparation
"It may be that you do not know how to pray mentally, Philothea, for unfortunately this is something that few people in our time know how to do...
... by reading some of the many good books written on the subject, and above all by practice."
He then lists 4 ways in which to place ourselves in the presence of God. Any thoughts?
3. The Invocation, the Second Point of Preparation
"The invocation is made in the following way. Knowing that it stands in God's presence, your soul prostrates itself before him with the most profound reverence. It acknowledges that it is most unworthy to appear before such sovereign Mamesty, but since it knows that this same supreme goodness wills that is should be so, it implores his grace in order to serve and adore him properly in tihs meditation."
4. The Subject of the Mystery, the Third Point of Preparation
"Some call this third point the composition of place and others the interior lesson. This is simply to picture in imagination the entire mystery you wish to mediate on as if it really took place here before us."
5. Considerations, the Second Part of Meditation
"After imagination has done its part there follows the act of the intellect and this we term meditation. This is simply to make one or more consideration in order to raise our affections to God and the things of God."
There is much more to this thought - good stuff!
6. Affections and Resolutions, the Third Part of Meditation
"Meditation produces devout movements in the will, the affective part of our soul, such as love of God and neighbor, desire for heaven and glory, zeal for the salvation of souls, imitation of the life of our Lord, compassion, awe, joy, fear of God's displeasure, judgment, and hell, hatred of sin, confidence in God's goodness and mercy, and deep sorrow for the sins of our past life. In such affections our mind should open up as much as possible."
7. Conclusion and Spiritual Bouquet (or 'nosegay' if you prefer.  )
"Finally, we must conclude our meditation wtih threee acts, and they must be made with the greatest possible humility. The first is the act of thanksgiving, by which we return thanks to God for the affections and resolutions he has given us and for his goodness and mercy, which we have found in the mystery meditated on. The second is the act of offering, by which we offer to God his own goodness and mercy, his Son's death, Blood, and virtues, and in union with them our own affections and resolutions. The third act is that of supplication, by which we beseech God and implore him to share with us the graces and virtues of his Son and to bless our affections and resolutions so that we may faithfully fulfill them. We then pray for the Church, our pastors, relatives, friends, and others, using for that purpose the intercession of our Lady, the angels, and the saints. Lastly, as I have already noted we must sayt Pater Noster, and the Ave Maria, which are the general and necessary prayer of all the faithful."
I love the order of the priorities! The last thing to cover are our petitions and supplications - by the time we get to our needs, the impurities have been screened out. I also like the idea of the intercession of Our Lady, saints, angels, and the saying the Our Father and Hail Mary incorporated as well.
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