| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| keeper49 |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 01:59:57
Recently a comment was made in this forum that animals understand unconditional love better than humans. This statement reminded me of a discussion I had with a fellow catholic pertaining to the same topic. Personally, I do not believe that creatures with mortal souls are capable of Unconditional Love and I would go so far as to say that promoting such an idea lowers the dignity of man.
I'd appreciate any input regarding a workable definition and examples showing UL in the animal kingdom.
It's quite possible that higher ordered creatures such as apes and whales may have this capacity. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| JourneyWithJC |
Posted - 02/10/2012 : 17:23:43
Unconditional love is much different than affection or protection.
An ant, a bird, a cow cannot love. They have affections, they have attractions, they have instincts. But animals do not love. They do not sacrificially love the way human beings have been the ability to love. God gave us that ability as being created in his image.
So you could do the two things you were put on earth to do. Learn to love God and learn to love other people. Life is all about love.
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| Kim |
Posted - 03/23/2009 : 14:36:58
Just because animals aren't created in the image of God doesn't mean some of them aren't created with a special purpose by God. Dogs do have the variety of typical instincts, but they are unique in the way they can be trained to ignore a good many of them. Many dogs are so loyal they will consistently put their life on the line for their master. Others are so finely attuned to the needs of their master, they can reliably predict a seizure or other biological event. Many people do elevate their pets to a higher status than animal, but it may be because, in many ways, their quality of life depends on that animal. |
| mikejuli |
Posted - 03/23/2009 : 12:52:50
i'm not one for elevating animals either but i do have a dog and he is one in long line of dogs... i don't know if i could say they are just instinct or without soul, maybe not a living soul as god made adam but certianly has personality and to some extent understands how to function as part of our family... i don't see emptiness in it's eyes and if he could turn on me because of his nature even that wouldn't be unheard of from humans. |
| revcort |
Posted - 03/23/2009 : 08:12:18
I think it's a dangerous sign of the times when we begin speaking about animals with human qualities. Animals do what they do by nature- by instinct. They are also products of their environments. If they are gently treated, they will be gentle. If they are harshly treated, they will be unfriendly and dangerous. They have no soul or conscience. They are creatures of instinct. They have no capability to "love" as a human being can love. And even if they are treated like royalty, they may turn on you before the end just because of their nature. Look into their eyes and you will see nothing- it's emptiness. Why? Because they are not created in the image of God and they have no soul. |
| Astralis |
Posted - 02/19/2009 : 13:16:29
quote:
He's 13 years old & always done this. I have artificially kept him in a sort of kitten state.
Domesticated cats are hybrid kittens/adults. Studies claim that they view their owners as their mothers and you'll see the kitten behavior because of that. |
| at1ment |
Posted - 02/19/2009 : 13:08:03
Diana quote:
It is easy to interpret what is instinctual among animals as unconditional love. Animals are mostly driven by hunger. Therefore domesticated animals will show affection to those known to provide food. When they are hungrier, they become more affectionate.
I agree with you here that animals can show affection. I used to have a small dog but regretably we had to put him down last June. Now, since I work part time at a church and I ride the bus to work I pass by this house just across the church that has two large dogs. One was a little puppy about a year ago and I would stop and pet them. Then I made the mistake of giving them a doggie treat that I had left over from the dog we had. Now whenever these two dogs see me from afar they both start jumping up and down and the female is so funny that she starts licking her chops in expectation of a treat but I dont give them one every day. However, when I do, they both look at me with such gratification as they eat those treats. They both run to me everytime I see them. But is this love and/or affection they have for me or is it love for the doggie treat they expect to get? |
| philial |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 13:52:58
I have 3 cats - all display to me as they would to mummy cat. My big cat(campion) goes as far as suckling on my dressing gown (that's a bathrobe to some  ). He's 13 years old & always done this. I have artificially kept him in a sort of kitten state. It's a form of love (perhaps bonding is a better word?).
As for my dog; she's a border collie, so has a natural instinct to bond especially with one person, but also is part of the pack (which includes the cats, which fulfill her needs.
So, sure, let's call it love, but a purely natural one, based on the creature's needs. Human love can be better. sad when it's not! |
| Kim |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 13:48:01
I think those of us who are dog people can be tempted at times to think that they love us, and unconditionally at that. But I think God has created some animals for the specific task of loyally serving mankind, and sometimes loyalty can feel like UL. I don't believe that any animal is truly capable of human love (which is modeled after God's). And I definitely don't think cats are capable of UL, sorry cat people. I'm not really sure if animals have any kid of soul to speak of, but I guess that's part of the question here. |
| ortho |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 13:45:05
i gauge the "love" of my cat by the stinkyness of his paws |
| keeper49 |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 12:57:21
quote:
Not all cats are the same of course, but they seem to expect unconditional love from you first.
Being a cat lover, I certainly hear you, Faith. Still, what about other creatures? Is UL only an attribute of divine beings? |
| keeper49 |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 12:52:22
The phrase unconditional love needs a working definition Nanavdm. In my mind the phrase requires participation, the giver and the receiver, with no strings attached on the giver's side, which may or may not be true on the receiver's end.
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| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 12:46:44
Anyone who has owned a cat, should know that they have lots of conditions. If they don't like what you have done (left them alone for too long, fed them the wrong cat food, etc.), they will make you pay for it - shredded curtains, ripped and scratched furniture, etc.
Not all cats are the same of course, but they seem to expect unconditional love from you first.
We like to anthropomorphize our pets, but no matter how clever they seem, or how "selfless", they are still just animals. They do not know love, they know companionship, contentment and full bellies. |
| Nanavdm |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 11:18:53
People only know how to love IF........ Come on, lets face it - humankind's love has so many 'little tags'. Sad, but true! Our friends (mostly with four legs) could teach us a thing or two or three! We mortal beings only know how to LOVE ourselves unconditionally - then we might consider others! I'm not being cynical. I'm being honest! Come on guys - think about it! |
| keeper49 |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 05:43:52
I agree with you Diana and yet the notion that animals are capable of UL is widespread. Is it just romanticism? Is there any scientific data documenting self sacrifice by animals other than protection of young? |
| Diana Holberg |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 04:47:04
It is easy to interpret what is instinctual among animals as unconditional love. Animals are mostly driven by hunger. Therefore domesticated animals will show affection to those known to provide food. When they are hungrier, they become more affectionate.
Animals are also territorial. Therefore, they will protect what is theirs -- including their food source. This, too, can be mistaken for love. But the truth is that they will be just as protective of their favorite toy.
Unconditional love is much different than affection or protection. To love unconditionally, one must be able to comprehend the other, to see the strengths and faults of the other, and to fully accept and forgive the faults and love the other regardless. Animals do not have this capability -- they are rather blinded to most of what makes us who we are.
But it's more romantic to believe that they love us. |
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