| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Diana Holberg |
Posted - 03/11/2012 : 20:36:50
I have decided to make this the next topic for my skeptics group.
I'm familiar with the sections of the Catechism on this subject, and I also have the information gathered in the two "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" volumes... plus a parallel of the synoptic Gospels.
Anything else you think I need to be prepared to consider?
Thanks all for your help and prayers - they have really been invaluable! |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| keeper49 |
Posted - 03/29/2012 : 17:17:19
quote:
When satan can decieve a person or some religious club to not stand on the bible as the final authority as God written promises to us then he is winning over that person or church to have a stronghold and big open door to walk in and out and decieve the people who are in a war without any weapons or shields or no protections.
The final authority in Christian history was never a book.(until the reformation) This is the same mistake the Pharisees made. The Christian bible was a product of the Church not visa versa. Therefore, when it comes to bible truth the Church has the authority. I can understand how difficult this concept must be to comprehend when there are thousands of churches all claiming to be the true Church Christ founded. It's unfortunate that millions of people have been deceived by a false man-made doctrine called bible-alone (Sola-Scriptura) |
| mikejuli |
Posted - 03/29/2012 : 16:50:49
hilarious. i thought the problem was that catholics thought faith was dead without works.. and that the prots did away with works because they wanted cheap grace. |
| acumenCry |
Posted - 03/28/2012 : 19:51:18
quote:
No Mike that is not true the Protestsnts left the C ahtolic churches because they understood that by just doing good did nt get you to heaven but by Faioth and good works.
So the Protestants believed in "faith plus works", so they left the Catholic Church? That's a little ironic.
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| baby3 |
Posted - 03/28/2012 : 17:47:31
No Mike that is not true the Protestsnts left the C ahtolic churches because they understood that by just doing good did nt get you to heaven but by Faioth and good works. When Jesus died his royal blood saved sinners from eternal death if they would follow him and serve one master the Father not other Gods and not man or material things of this world.I can reject the plate you served me my dinner on but I may just eat the dinner on an other plate because your mught be dirty on the inside. |
| mikejuli |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 03:24:03
they refuse to understand that simple concept though.. for some reason tradition is o.k. where their acceptance of the bible is concerned. |
| michael |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 14:25:44
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by michael
Nothing in the Bible contradicts the Catholic Church teachings & that is why the Catholic Church did not change anything in the Bible in the time period over a millennium before the Protestants existed or seen the Bible.
The reliability of the Bible is directly proportional to the reliability of the Catholic Church.
NO! the Catholic church can't change God promises and will of the bible , but satan is using the CC to misinterpretate scripture with the power satan only can use on us humans is with his powers of deceptions and lies and lack of true knowledge!
When satan can decieve a person or some religious club to not stand on the bible as the final authority as God written promises to us then he is winning over that person or church to have a stronghold and big open door to walk in and out and decieve the people who are in a war without any weapons or shields or no protections.
It is like going to war on luck hoping you just don't get shot, but never can fight back!
God word will never turn void it is fully reliable:
Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
one love
The Bible is a Catholic book.
The Catholic Church does not want to change its bible.
Right from the beginning of Protestantism with Martin Luther he wanted to change the bible because it contradicted his Protestant beliefs. He put faith alone in his bible & removed 7 books.
Protestants are the ones who try to change the bible.
The reliability of the Bible is directly proportional to the reliability of the Catholic Church & there is no way of getting around that.
If a Protestant rejects the Catholic Church they must also reject the bible which Protestants got from the Catholic Church.
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| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 13:09:55
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by michael
Nothing in the Bible contradicts the Catholic Church teachings & that is why the Catholic Church did not change anything in the Bible in the time period over a millennium before the Protestants existed or seen the Bible.
The reliability of the Bible is directly proportional to the reliability of the Catholic Church.
NO! the Catholic church can't change God promises and will of the bible , but satan is using the CC to misinterpretate scripture with the power satan only can use on us humans is with his powers of deceptions and lies and lack of true knowledge!
When satan can decieve a person or some religious club to not stand on the bible as the final authority as God written promises to us then he is winning over that person or church to have a stronghold and big open door to walk in and out and decieve the people who are in a war without any weapons or shields or no protections.
It is like going to war on luck hoping you just don't get shot, but never can fight back!
God word will never turn void it is fully reliable:
Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
one love
Unfortuneately, your personal interpretation of the "bible" is different than the next person's personal interpretation of Sacred Scripture.
That is why Sacred Scripture says that the Church is the "pillar and bulwark" of the Truth.
quote:
"If I (St. Paul) am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great..." [1 Tim. 15-16]
The Apostolic Church interpreted Sacred Scripture for her people and the Magisterium continues to do that today on modern matters of faith and morals. |
| evangelist |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 08:51:14
quote:
Originally posted by michael
Nothing in the Bible contradicts the Catholic Church teachings & that is why the Catholic Church did not change anything in the Bible in the time period over a millennium before the Protestants existed or seen the Bible.
The reliability of the Bible is directly proportional to the reliability of the Catholic Church.
NO! the Catholic church can't change God promises and will of the bible , but satan is using the CC to misinterpretate scripture with the power satan only can use on us humans is with his powers of deceptions and lies and lack of true knowledge!
When satan can decieve a person or some religious club to not stand on the bible as the final authority as God written promises to us then he is winning over that person or church to have a stronghold and big open door to walk in and out and decieve the people who are in a war without any weapons or shields or no protections.
It is like going to war on luck hoping you just don't get shot, but never can fight back!
God word will never turn void it is fully reliable:
Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
one love |
| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 14:12:03
I was listening to Fr. Mitch on EWTN explain Martin Luther's exclusion and reinclusion of various Books of Sacred Scripture.
I didn't realize it, but according to Fr. Mitch, Luther's canon is a reversion back to the Pharisee canon.
A good explanation of the making of the canon is at:
http://www.fisheaters.com/septuagint.html
quote:
...in other words, the Protestant "Reformers" decided against the canon held dear by the Apostles in favor of a canon determined by Pharisees some 40 years after Jesus rose from the dead -- the same Pharisees who denied the Truths of the entire New Testament, even accusing the "Nazarenes" of stealing Jesus' body from the tomb and lying to the world!
(Interestingly, it was Zakkai's successor, Gamaliel, who forced the "Nazarenes" out of the synagogues. Gamaliel also made it obligatory for Jews to pray the "Prayer of Eighteen Petitions," the 12th petition, which is still prayed today, known as the birkat, being "For apostates may there be no hope, and may the Nazarenes and heretics suddenly perish.")
And do you know why the Book of Maccabees was thrown out by the Jewish Council?
Because the Council was conducted under the auspices of the Flavian Roman Emperors and they decided that that particuar book, which tells of the Maccabean Revolt, might be inflammatory and incite rebellion by the Jews.
So, all those Protestant Bibles are lacking the Book of Maccabees, which speaks clearly of praying for the dead, because a pagan emperor pressured the Pharisees, around 40 years after the Resurrection of Christ, to exclude it.
And lest anyone is still tempted to think that it was the "Roman Church" that came up with these books and that they were not written by pre-Christ Jews (an assertion I've actually read at "Messianic" websites), Jews in other parts of the world who didn't get news of the Council of Jamnia's decisions still use those "extra" 7 books to this very day (research the canon used by Ethiopian Jewry).
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| michael |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 12:02:43
Nothing in the Bible contradicts the Catholic Church teachings & that is why the Catholic Church did not change anything in the Bible in the time period over a millennium before the Protestants existed or seen the Bible.
The reliability of the Bible is directly proportional to the reliability of the Catholic Church.
|
| baby3 |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 15:51:45
Miss Bondar,If you are certain of these thin gs how about sharing where Puntius Pilate is today?Did you know I am not coming back ever again???? Not ever????NADA because I am going to stay with the energies of the universe all the energies that are GOD! I will never again return:)B3 |
| mikejuli |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 16:59:55
whoa. k. well back on "planet earth" ..... |
| KathieBondar |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 13:26:34
It is difficult to express an opinion of the Bible because it has become BIG BUSINESS, the merchendizing of it. Any time you touch someone's pocket he will scream to back off or you will face eternal damnation.
The Bible can not be a credible document as it is based on hearsay, no first hand witness testimony.
Let me say that all living beings, human, animal or other, are subject to the re-birth cycle. Once in approx. a thousand years we are reborn on earth, bringing latent memories of our past lives. By telepathy it is possible to bring these memories to surface, not all of it, but the more prominent ones, those that made a significant imprint in you memory bank.
Jesus lived approx. two thousand years ago, thus he and his contemporaries are due for new lives on earth today. And in fact they are, or died recently. Joseph died not long ago, Mary still lives, his five siblings are all alive; the apostles, well some are alive, some has passed; the man know as Pontius Pilate is alive today. If you learn telepathy, you can ask them directly who they are today and how they lived as contemporaries of Jesus two thousand years ago.
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| michael |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 09:57:02
Reliability of the Bible is directly proportional to the reliability of the men who translated into their language.
Protestants are forced to put their faith into the men who translated into their language.
I am a Catholic so I have no problem putting my faith into the Sacred Magisterium but Protestants have a big problem because they believe bible alone.
For Protestants there is a huge contradiction for them to believe into the bible alone they are forced to put all of their faith into men in order to have a bible they can read. |
| michael |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 09:20:01
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by michael
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by Diana Holberg
Ooh... a search of this forum is worth doing. I found this old thread - the article linked is gone, but I remember it to be fascinating... I'll have to find it again and fix the link. 
Edit: Here is the link to the article discussed - I have fixed it in the original thread as well.
If the topic is,
"The reliability of the Bible".
You should stay with what the Bible says, NOT WHAT THE CATHOLICS SAY.
The Bible does not say Mark wrote Mark so you are forced to say what the Catholic Church says.
This is a half truth but that does not mean the CC was inspiried to write the truth of the bible or invented the bible and stories!
The Bible: Who actually wrote the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and can we trust them?
January 3, 2008 by beyondfaith
The answer seems simple doesn’t it? Well you are right, it is simple! While it is true that their names have not “been signed on the dotted line” of any of the copies of the gospels that have been found, scholars and the early church both affixed the names of the authors with their gospels.
Matthew, a tax collector also known as Levi and one of the twelve disciples, wrote the first gospel in the New Testament of Matthew.
quote:
John Mark, who was a friend of the disciple Peter, wrote the Book of Mark.
Where does is say in the Bible Mark wrote Mark?
If you can not show in the Bible where it say specifically Mark wrote Mark you are forced to accept what the Catholic Church says.
quote:
And Luke, who was Paul’s doctor, wrote the book of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles.
So as you can quickly see, these books were written by either a disciple of Christ or a person that was a close associate of a disciple and used their words. The main reason we can say with certainty that these books were written by these authors is twofold: first, there is no competition. No one else in almost 2000 years has claimed to have written them or someone uncovered evidence otherwise. The other reason is the lack of influence credibility theory. It works something like this: If I were to write a book about Jesus that was false and wanted people to believe it, would I choose to put down the name of a tax collector, who is by far not the most loved person? No I would choose someone with some influence and respect. Nor would I put down the name of a second hand person. I would pick one of the twelve disciples that I felt was the most trustworthy and well liked and put their name down as the author of my work. These did not happen.
The fun part of this theory is the book of John. Now John was a very prominent man in the community as well as one of Jesus’ inner three. But the author of the Book of John is actually the only one in question. In the second century AD, a Christian writer named Papias wrote about John the Apostle and “John the Elder”. It is not sure if he is speaking of a single person and giving him two titles, which was extremely common in the day, or if he is actually referring to two different people. However, this one quote aside which may not be a issue anyhow if it is the same John, everything else points to the fact that John the Apostle wrote the Book of John.
Additionally, many have argued that since two of these books were written by non-disciples that there is a possibility of them adding their own slant to the story to make it more magical or meaningful. That is not true at all, even in today’s systems.
Take for example a court stenographer. They do not know the people involved in the case at all; they have never seen them before in their lives! Yet they write down what the people say and it is accepted as “truth” even though they were never there and did not see the events.
The same can be said for the biographers of today. The authors that wrote the Princess Diana biographies after she died may have known her…or they may not have. The ones that did know her personally can write about what they saw and heard while they were with her. Those that did not know her talked to her friends, family, and those that did know her and then wrote those facts down as a book and it is instantly accepted as the truth even though they had never met her. Should we not give the same considerations to people that are dealing with God? You and I would be extra careful with all the facts if we knew God was looking over our shoulder; don’t you think they did as well? And remember this is a time where you are stoned to death for being a false prophet. I know I would do my best to get every fact correct!
What if that biography on Diana said she had four children and had a wart on the end of her nose? Well it is quite easy for us to debunk those lies. How? Well we can clearly see she only had 2 sons, William and Harry. Even without all the media, it would be easy for someone to read that and say “wait a minute…that is not true! I went to school with William and Harry and they don’t have any other siblings!” The same goes with those that knew Diana; they would quickly inform us that she, in fact, did not have a wart on the end of her nose. In today’s world, that “biography” would be placed in the fiction section and the author would have a hard time finding another job as a biographer. In the days of Jesus, especially with him preaching to thousands, many of his acts were well known! You could not slip things in and not have the Romans or Jews come knocking at your door in the middle of the night! The author would need to go into hiding!
With the lack of any competitors, the fact that common men wrote these words instead of some prestigious person with other agendas, and the fact that people of that time accepted these words, there is little doubt that Matthew, Luke, and John Mark, and John the Apostle wrote these words and that they are the true first or second hand look in to the life of Jesus Christ.
my source:
http://beyondfaith.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/the-rock-who-actually-wrote-the-four-gospels-of-matthew-mark-luke-and-john-and-can-we-trust-them/
one love
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