| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| baby3 |
Posted - 05/04/2012 : 15:50:12
Wow! I just read all over the net that James truly was the first bishop in Jerusalem and he died around age 60-65 also that he was the brother of Jesus Christ,where ever I looked it said this and that the Jews have churches in his name and note him as the brother of Jesus How come? I am just trying to find out the truth that's all. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 05/31/2012 : 11:53:08
Actually, it would have been preferable for us Catholics if Mary had given us the example of a fertile mother with lots of biological children.
It isn't easy preaching against birth control when the primary example for us is the Holy Family with only one child.
But the fact is that Mary did not have any other children and the OT prophecies predicted not only a virginal young woman, but one through whom only the Lord would pass and no other.
Mary ever virgin was solid Biblical Christian teaching right up to and even through the beginnings of the Reformation. Many of the Reformers would have though you a fool for even doubting such a basic and enduring Biblical doctrine.
I know why a first century Jew would not have entered into the Mother of our Lord. No first century Jew would have dared enter the vessel that conceived and bore the Son of God.
A first century Jew did not even have sex with his lawful wife when studying the Torah, and that was only the Written Word of God.
But I see that modern Protestants would dare anything. |
| ftbond |
Posted - 05/31/2012 : 01:50:44
Ah, yes... Mary, the perpetual Virgin... Why on earth did the Catholics bother to dream this one up? A girl gets pregnant by the Holy Spirit - gets married - has a child (Jesus) - and NEVER HAS SEX with her husband afterword... And why not??? WHO KNOWS??? I mean, what on earth is wrong with a married woman having sex with her husband? That's GODS WILL. In fact, to do other wise is totally CONTRARY to his will. Scripture says "a man shall leave his father and his mother, and cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh"... That "one flesh" happens via SEX. Yep, there it is. So, what the Catholic Church teaches is that Mary REFUSED to become "one flesh" with her husband Joseph... In other words, she refused to do what God wanted... In other words, Mary was a SINNER by remaining the "perpetual virgin", and not becoming "one flesh" with her husband... So - go figure... Catholics are basically whacked out...
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| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 15:11:49
Amen. God knew what He was doing. We humans have egos and all sorts of other fallible traits - But the Church works in spite of all these unfavourable traits, because Jesus knew us well enough to set up a system that works for us.
That is why Judaism is stil fairly stable after several thousand years and the Catholic Church has continued to be stable for nearly two thousand years. But after the Reformation, the "Reformers" could not even keep their own groups stable for more than a single generation.
God knew us better than we know ourselves. |
| baby3 |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 14:57:24
Well after I looked up all i could I find that you need a bishop in the churches as they did have them back then and you need order in the house of God Bishops make decisions an d can give rights to the priests called Holy Orders and that is biblical even the Jews have this:)All churches but the very one man ones that are in it for themselves Like Olstein or G4 You can't and should not run Gods house without others to help make decisions it is not right nor fair to the assembly.o man is an Island unto himself!!! B 4 |
| baby3 |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 14:27:04
Wow! What a maroon this is becoming:( OK I will tell you all something, I was made Chaplain by a Bishop that is very well known and I dare not mention his name.I was made this because I go to the sick and pray for them I am with them most of the time.I have gone into prisons and did visit them in lockup units and it was not nice where i had to go,and how i had to get into the place i needed to be.I also did baptise children and this is because they do believe you can do this.I have also anointed many sick people and animals to I have seen people get healed through the anointing with oil and prayers.I am in between both beliefs now and it is very hard for me to make a choice and i know how Alen feels right now to:( We have been brought up different and went to different churches but Alen is a pastor and he is doing this out of love but love for Christ not anyone else he is hard and very thick but his reason is to help and save others from eternal damnation and I do see what he is doing but Alen, you will never bring anyone to the Lord by force and hateful comments.I just wanted others here to get the picture of what is really happening with me and him.I do know that Mike is not an evil man there are no evil people on this forum, and they to defend their beliefs even better because they do care about our souls and do love and that's where I want to be in love with Gods people and in love with all people.When you take others by force you will go down that way to.Some people are very prejudice here and only see what they want and this is what I call evil.B3 P.S. You will never find Love in hell,it don't exsist there! |
| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 12:42:02
In order to secure stability and sucession across the generations, an organization needs to have a general manager, a branch manager and several full and part time assistant managers.
It works the same in the military as it does in civilian life.
Only Bishops have the authority to ordain priests and other Bishops.
The Apostles were Bishops, they had Christ's authority to lay hands on other men who became priests of a Church.
Deacons are either permanent or temporary.
G4Me, you have a knack for taking a simple working practice and turning it into a disfunctional and illogical concept.
Think.
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| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 06:59:56
And why were they performing sacred duties and making offerings? Those are priestly duties. |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 06:50:52
Then why does the New Testament describe Bishops, Elders and Deacons? |
| God4me |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 00:09:26
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
James was a Biblical Bishop,[A Pastor], Not the catholic kind of bishop.
READ THE 5 FOLD MINISTRY AGAIN.
Apostles, Prophets, Evengelists, Pastors and Teachers.
WHERE IS THE BISHOP??.
nowhere does presbuteros, Presbyter mean a priest, That is another one of the catholic lies.
If catholics were God's true Church, They would use the Biblical word, Which is,"Pastor".
PLEASE NOTE.
Is PASTOR in the Bible??, So whats wrong with a youth Pastor??
Is Evengelist in the Bible??. So wahts wrong with tele-Evangelists??.
You are just being silly.
I don't know what Bible you use, But every Bible I have seen, Doesn't have, pope, priest or the rcc bishop in it.
YOUR TELLING LIES..AGAIN...AREN'T YOU.
Ok so now your admitting that James was a bishop. That was a good first step. But your still trying to pretend that he wasn't a real bishop like the catholic church has. I mean what else is there?
The five fold minstry is not a biblical term g4. So I have no intention of letting you use it.. If you choose to then I see no reason why you won't also accept terms like pope.. Don't be a hypocrite dude.
Presbyter does mean priest. Proven and spanked you ones too many times already. Really bro are you that stoooopid?
And of course I'm being silly about youth pastors and televangelists. After all I'm not a legalist like you. I can see ministry develop into a head pastor or pope just like I can see a youth pastor develope and be legitimate.. You on the other hand are a pick and chooser. No consistency and no rhyme or reason to your madness. That's where ignorance gets you g4. Your blind because you follow the blind.
[1]If you read my post proper, You would see that I said,
"James was a [BIBLICAL BISHOP], A Pastor".
Not a catholic kind of bishop, Which doesn't exist in the new testament Church.
Stop twisting what I said, YOU NAUGHTY MAN.
[2]LET ME SEE IF YOU CAN COUNT,
Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher, How many is that??.
So what was you saying about no such thing as the five fold Ministry??.
[3]Where is the pope?? where is the priest??. where is the bishop??.
Nowhere in the Bible, Only in the false catholic religion.
[4]Nowhere in the Greek, Does presbyter mean a priest, STOP TELLING LIES, YOU EVIL MAN.
[5]As for you Pastor, Is the Pastor, or is it not in the Bible???. So what wrong with a youth Pastor??.
The same with the televangelist, Is the Evangelist, Or is it not in the Bible??.
So what wrong with Evangelising on the TV??. GET REAL MAN.
But you will never find a pope, a priest or a bishop [The catholic type] in the Bible.
GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT, You know I spank you every time with the Bible.
Nope. I would get a better response from a bag of leaves. I suggest you read your first post again cause you reject the position of bishop. Not my fault your changing your story and not my fault you cannot count.. You forgot bishops and deacons and elders in your scripture hack. I know that is what your leaders tell you to think, and that without them you really couldn't think at all. If you did you would know that the only bishops are Catholics. All the others are just thieves like you.
[1]I don't reject the position of a Bishop, It's the catholics who twist the meaning of a Bishop, GET IT RIGH AND STOP TELLING LIES.
There is no, Bishops Elders and Deacon in the TRUE Church.
Some pentecostel have them, But it isn't Biblical.
God's Ministers in the local Church are,
A Pastor and a Deacon.
No priest Elder or Bishop.
The Elder and Bishop are the Pastor. |
| God4me |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 00:02:20
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
Nope your the one that twists them g4. And you don't know Greek or Hebrew. Anyone can use a concordance bro. Now please deal with that truth instead of accusing others wrongfully.
STOP TELLING LIES, YOU NAUGHTY EVIL WICKED MAN.
I show you what the Bible, Hebrew and Greek says, But I can't make you believe it.
If you believed the Bible, You would never have become a catholic.
If you believed the Bible, You would never have lost your salvation.
And that is the truth..FACT. |
| mikejuli |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 16:54:11
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
James was a Biblical Bishop,[A Pastor], Not the catholic kind of bishop.
READ THE 5 FOLD MINISTRY AGAIN.
Apostles, Prophets, Evengelists, Pastors and Teachers.
WHERE IS THE BISHOP??.
nowhere does presbuteros, Presbyter mean a priest, That is another one of the catholic lies.
If catholics were God's true Church, They would use the Biblical word, Which is,"Pastor".
PLEASE NOTE.
Is PASTOR in the Bible??, So whats wrong with a youth Pastor??
Is Evengelist in the Bible??. So wahts wrong with tele-Evangelists??.
You are just being silly.
I don't know what Bible you use, But every Bible I have seen, Doesn't have, pope, priest or the rcc bishop in it.
YOUR TELLING LIES..AGAIN...AREN'T YOU.
Ok so now your admitting that James was a bishop. That was a good first step. But your still trying to pretend that he wasn't a real bishop like the catholic church has. I mean what else is there?
The five fold minstry is not a biblical term g4. So I have no intention of letting you use it.. If you choose to then I see no reason why you won't also accept terms like pope.. Don't be a hypocrite dude.
Presbyter does mean priest. Proven and spanked you ones too many times already. Really bro are you that stoooopid?
And of course I'm being silly about youth pastors and televangelists. After all I'm not a legalist like you. I can see ministry develop into a head pastor or pope just like I can see a youth pastor develope and be legitimate.. You on the other hand are a pick and chooser. No consistency and no rhyme or reason to your madness. That's where ignorance gets you g4. Your blind because you follow the blind.
[1]If you read my post proper, You would see that I said,
"James was a [BIBLICAL BISHOP], A Pastor".
Not a catholic kind of bishop, Which doesn't exist in the new testament Church.
Stop twisting what I said, YOU NAUGHTY MAN.
[2]LET ME SEE IF YOU CAN COUNT,
Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher, How many is that??.
So what was you saying about no such thing as the five fold Ministry??.
[3]Where is the pope?? where is the priest??. where is the bishop??.
Nowhere in the Bible, Only in the false catholic religion.
[4]Nowhere in the Greek, Does presbyter mean a priest, STOP TELLING LIES, YOU EVIL MAN.
[5]As for you Pastor, Is the Pastor, or is it not in the Bible???. So what wrong with a youth Pastor??.
The same with the televangelist, Is the Evangelist, Or is it not in the Bible??.
So what wrong with Evangelising on the TV??. GET REAL MAN.
But you will never find a pope, a priest or a bishop [The catholic type] in the Bible.
GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT, You know I spank you every time with the Bible.
Nope. I would get a better response from a bag of leaves. I suggest you read your first post again cause you reject the position of bishop. Not my fault your changing your story and not my fault you cannot count.. You forgot bishops and deacons and elders in your scripture hack. I know that is what your leaders tell you to think, and that without them you really couldn't think at all. If you did you would know that the only bishops are Catholics. All the others are just thieves like you. |
| mikejuli |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 16:44:55
Nope your the one that twists them g4. And you don't know Greek or Hebrew. Anyone can use a concordance bro. Now please deal with that truth instead of accusing others wrongfully. |
| God4me |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 07:56:44
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
Blathering petulant child; always bawling to get his way.
My job is to give you the truth, And thats what I do.
I prove what the Bible says from the scriptures Hebrew and Greek.
YouTwist and misquote them. |
| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 06:41:09
Blathering petulant child; always bawling to get his way. |
| God4me |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 06:28:32
quote:
Originally posted by jdubya
quote:
Originally posted by jdubya
Rom 15:15 But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God
Rom 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
So as apostle/episcope/presbuteros, Paul describes his ministry as a priestly one. The Greek word is hierourgounta (acting as a priest).
Paul could not use the term hiereus without qualification. Jewish Christians associated this with the Levitical priesthood (Cohen or Levi) which had passed away. It was a priesthood by birthright. Greeks would have associated this word with a pagan priesthood.
The word itself comes from the root hieros, which simply means sacred.
So in Romans 15, Paul does qualify the word to describe his ministry. So if Paul's role as minister of the Gospel is a priestly one, there is no issue in calling him a priest, but definitely not in the Levitical or pagan sense.
As far as Clement of Rome, just call him the bishop of Rome, the third successor of Peter. His letter to the Corinthian Church shows his authority in the apostolic age (from 70, 80 or 96 AD). They requested his help to settle disputes in the church many miles away. One major issue was that the church was ejecting those who offered the sacrifice.
The Corinthian Church actually treated this letter as scripture and read it in their liturgy until the Church defined the canon.
In the first three hundred years of the church (when there were no catholics according to you), there was no dispute over the role of bishops, presbyters and deacons from Clement forward. In the NT, presbuteros and episcope were sometimes used interchangeably, but as the church grew rapidly, the roles were defined more precisely to meet the needs of the church. Yes, the church was practical.
Bishops were presbyters, but presbyters were not bishops. They both had a priestly role in the church and offered the sacrifice.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
Where does Rom 15: 16 mention priest, You LYING EVEIL MAN.
Paul neve descibes his Ministry as a priestl one, STOP TELLING LIES, YOU NAUGHTY MAN,
Aren't you a Greek expert and have a P.H.D. in theology? Before you so loosely throw out the words liar and evil, get your Greek text out and read it. Here, I'll even post the transliteration for you:
Romans 15:16 Eis to einai me leitourgon iesou christou eis ta ethne hierourgounta to euaggelion tou theou hina genetai he prosphora ton ethnon euprosdektos hegiasmene en pneumati hagio.
heirourgounta comes from the root hierourgeo
Strong's:
To minister in the manner of a priest, minister in priestly service.
Thayer's Lexicon:
to be busied with sacred things.
To perform sacred rites,
used especially of persons sacrificing,
to minister in the manner of a priest,
minister in priestly service.
As a Greek expert, you should be able to just look at the word and know instantly that it breaks down to the same root from which we get hiereus or priest.
So Paul is a leitourgos (liturgist or minister) in the priestly service of the Gospel of God.
So now you can apologize for calling me a liar and evil and apologize for your sloppy and lazy glossing over of the text.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
Paul was an Apostle, [Apostolos], Not a Presbuteros, A Presbuteros is an Elder, Which is the Pastor, Not an Apostle.
Presbuteros means, Bishop, Elder and Shepherd, Which all mean, THE PASTOR.
No they don't all mean the pastor. You as someone who tries to hold others to strict etymology (when it works for you) should know this. If they wanted to make these words equal in function, there is no need to use separate words. Poimein means Shepherd which means pastor. Peter was called to shepherd Jesus sheep and feed his lambs. So Peter was an Apostle and a pastor and an evangelist and an elder and a bishop. They all have different specific functions even though there is some level of interchangeability between some of these terms.
Do you need me to quote all the verses that prove this literally.
Since you challenged me about Paul not being a presbuteros, let me correct you once again:
1Pet 5:1 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed.
So, if Peter is a presbuteros and an apostle, what stops Paul, an apostle from being a presbuteros. You really don't know your bible, DO YOU.
Do you ever get tired of being corrected? Unfortunately, there is more to correct.
Is an apostle a bishop? According to your definition of all these equivalents of pastor and since you now know that an apostle can also be a presbuteros, then an apostle would also be a pastor. Just follow your own logic.
Here is another verse to help you out:
Acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
Judas was an apostle and his office is translated as episcopen, which is the same root word used for bishop.
So an apostle holds an office that is called a bishoprick and an apostle like Peter can be an elder/presbuteros. An apostle can also be an evangelist like Peter, Paul and John. An apostle can also be a shepherd/pastor like Peter who was told to feed and shepherd Jesus sheep. Actually the word poimein carries the idea of to rule or to govern.
Since Paul’s ministry is a priestly one, then an apostle/bishop at minimum serve a priestly function. Do they also serve a priestly function in their capacity as elder/presbuteros and shepherd/pastor? The new Testament doesn’t tell us, but the earliest history of the church makes it very specific that presbuteros did offer the sacrifice. These are men that learned firsthand from the apostles themselves.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
Paul would never uese the word, "Hiereus", Because he wasn't a priest.
No, he couldn’t use the term without qualification because of what it meant to Jews and Greeks by itself.
He was neither a Cohen or a pagan priest. Instead he uses a word from the same root (hierourgounta) to show that his ministry functioned as a priestly one.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
You said,
As far as Clement of Rome, just call him the bishop of Rome, the third successor of Peter.
There never was, And never will be a bishop of Rome, Not in the catholic sense of the meaning.
How could he be a successor to Peter, Peter never went to Rome, And he wasn'r a bishop..WAKE UP.
.
There is absolutely no question that Peter was in Rome. Please abandon the juvenile 20th century anti-catholic apologetics. His bones are directly below the altar at St. Peter’s basilica in Rome. This is a fact. Both Peter and Paul were martyred in Rome under Nero. There was never a question until ahistorical fundie zealots invented this objection.
Again, the office of apostle was called a bishoprick in Acts 1:20, so wrong again. Of course, Peter was also an elder as he himself acknowledged.
Clement was a successor, because he was the third appointed Bishop of Rome after Peter. Clement’s letter to the Corinthian Church was authoritative and he bound them to his conclusions on the matter of the dispute. So even though the term “Pope” came later, he was excercising his authority to bind and loose in the same manner that subsequent Bishops of Rome have. As I said, they read his letter in the liturgy as if it were scripture.
But according to your fantasy, he couldn’t have been Catholic since this was the 1st century, but how strange it must be to you that he functioned just like a Catholic Pope.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
You TELL A LOT OF PORKIES, DON'T YOU??. you can't be affraid of hell.
Since I’ve proved all of your assertions to be false, who is the one who owns the porkies?
Who stands accused of calumny?
[1]For the truth about Rom 15: 16, See.
The Greek word, "Hierourgeo", Is only once in the Bible,
In Rom 15: 16.
It is made up of the Greek words,
"Hieros" [Sacred], And "Ergon" [Work]
And it means, "A sacred work"... not a priest.
Paul was an Apostle, Not a priest, Even if, "Hierourgeo" meant a priest,[Which it doesn't] You can't build a doctrine on one scripture.
And as I said, Rom 15: 16. Is the only time this word is used.
Eph 4: 11, 1 Cor 12: 28. Is the one Jesus given and God set Ministers in the Church.
WHERE IS TO PRIEST??.
SO NOW YOU CAN CALL YOURSELF A LIAR.
[2]Presbuteros means,God's Minister, Inclueding the Bishop, Elder and Shepherd, Which all mean, THE PASTOR.
And you said they don't.
STOP TELING LIES.
[3]Peter was an Apostle only, STOP TELLING LIES.
The Apostle had to feed the sheep while the new Chuch was growing, Now we have Pastor that feed the sheep, Not the Apostel.
The Apostle were acting as the elders in the very early Church, Until it was formed properly.
IT IS YOU WHO DOESN'T KNOW THE BIBLE.
When has anyone ever corrected me??, YOU BIG LIAR, No has, Or can correct me, As I show you what the Bible and the Greek say.
Unlike you who twists the Greek and the Bible.
[4]There is no Biblical or historical record the Peter ever went to Rome.STOP TELLING LIES.
SO, Admit it, Your the one who is TELLING LIES, MISQUOTING THE GREEK AND TWISTING THE TRUTH. |
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