| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Greatest I am 2 |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 10:32:24
Is hell anything like -- do unto others and love the sinner?
Some more enlightened Christians are trying to mature Christianity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc
The Christian invention of hell and Christian strong desire for it to exist, shows a hatred that is quite deep within the Christian tribal soul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_rmQuagpY&feature=player_embedded
Jesus would not cast the first stone yet Christians adamantly demand that he cast the last killing stone called hell.
You will reap what you sow Christian.
This will be you unless you repent from your hating ways. You are corrupting Jesus and his good archetypal name.
I predict this following for you if you do not lose your hate for those who just happen by accident of birth to not believe as you do. Beware.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3LNL6wKhXA
Regards
DL
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| baby3 |
Posted - 05/18/2012 : 16:39:55
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
quote:
Originally posted by Greatest I am 2
If you though a murder was somehow the only way to save people, what would you choose to do.
i don't think murder is the only way to save people.. i'm not for abortion dude.. and there is a big difference between sacrifice and murder. if i choose to lay down my life for a friend then there is no murder. if all you can see in the gospel is a murder then i suggest you try to think outside of the puny box you squeezed your head into.
quote:
Show your love for your son by having him murdered, or having enough love to step up yourself?
there is one god. again with the puny head. look, if jesus were a son in the human sense that would be one thing.. but the trinity isn't saying that. jesus isn't a separate god who is the son of another father god.. they are one. so this argument is out.
quote:
A simple questin eh?
Give an answer if you dare instead of just spouting your brain numbing dogma.
got answers aplenty for your brain numbing dogmas giam. it would be nice though if you whiners would just try your own criticism on yourself for a change. i grow weary of having to explain simple ideas which have been misconstrued and exaggerated by someone who should know better.
quote:
Who would die? You or your child?
Regards
DL
i am a father and a son. so are you. so who dies? the father or the son? please think about this giam. cause if you say you would die then your still someone elses son.. so if i were a whiner like you i would ask why your father is such a loser that he would let his son die...
see how fun it is to play word games?
seriously though do take the time to think and challenge your own claims... it's what i do. i'm a skeptic first and foremost of my own beliefs. that keeps me honest. it was my outsider test of faith before the term became popular.
now there is always the chance that your just trying to be offensive cause you get off on it. if that is the case.. oh well. your not the first, you wont be the last of that lazy brood. but i don't know.. are you sincere or just a sophist?
     I needed a good laugh!! Thanks Mike:) |
| baby3 |
Posted - 05/18/2012 : 16:36:29
quote:
Originally posted by Greatest I am 2
Staying immature eh?
Thanks for speaking of taking responsibility while you use a scapegoat Jesus to take yours.
You call evil good and that is why those who will try to profit from God having his son needlessly murdered will end in hell. Enjoy the heat of your immoral position.
Christianity is based on human sacrifice and that makes it immoral.
Regards
DL
I offer an answer to the issue of God and Hell based on my own opinion, observations and what I understand from the bible which is my scripture of choice. I will also refer to other writings, myths and legends as I see fit. This is just my opinion which might be bull****, so u are free to disagree
Firstly I have not come across anything in the bible that explicitly says that God created hell for humans or that he throws people into it for punishment of their sins or that the devil and his demons are the wardens of this subterranean place of torture. We can say he created it from the point of veiw that HE created all things and the devil does not have the power to create. All the false ideas have been invented over the years by various religious groups (including the religion called Christianity nowadays) to scare people away from sin.
Let us go to the beginning, when Adam sinned God did not at anytime mention him being thrown into hell. The initial warning was that he would DIE. But when the deed was done he did not “die” in the expected sense but we were told that one of his first actions was to hide from the presence of God. This is the crux of the matter. The “death” was one of being cut off from the source that gave him life,that breathed into him (Gen 2:7). His body died some 900 years later but the death was already implanted in his nature, his genetic code.
When the body died, the life of God, (that Adam had corrupted through his own choice) or what we can call his spirit, was released from his body. Here is the dilemma; he could not operate in this world , this physical realm, anymore, (because you need a body to do that) and he could not go back to the “father of Spirits” (Heb 12: 9) because he had made a conscious choice against him . Thus the only way to go for him was DOWN. Remember that the bible says that Adam was not deceived but Eve was, so he was not an innocent that was hoodwinked. He made a choice of his FREE WILL. And that is the basis of the whole existence of man and the universe, FREE WILL (but that is another topic for another day).
The state of trauma that the spirit of Adam (which is really the essence of Adam) was in is the condition of darkness,and desolation that can be interpreted DEATH leads to the descent into HELL. Remember that another set of spirit beings had earlier turned their backs on God and were refuges in the realms of darkness (devil and his boys) till the “appointed time”. These were older more evil and stronger in the realm of the spirit (though Adam was a god in the physical realm before he abdicated his authority) so, naturally, they bullied and tortured him. So, all the ingredients for HELL, as we know it, were complete. And that established the pattern for all from the bloodline of Adam till this day. Does this seem strange? why do we feel lonely when we are seperated from a loved one? why does this lonliness become despair if the seperation is permanent? the bible says the spiritual births all we see and feel in this realm. thus, as it is here so it is in the spiritual
In essence, GOD DID NOT CREATE HELL AS A TORTURE CHAMBER FOR THOSE THAT SIN. Hell is the natural result of the state of existence known as death. All humans are by default spiritually dead, they are just waiting to fully manifest its reality. GIAM2 has questioned why a loving God would throw his children in hell. Very good question, but God does not throw anybody in Hell, in fact, immediately Adam messed up, God started speaking words that will solve the problem. He was already devising a solution that will save his child from the mess he had gotten into. He was already preparing another innocent free from the bloodline of Adam (not Eve) that will exist just as Adam did that will make the right choices. He was willing to sacrifice this innocent (who was really Himself in a paradoxical way) and exchange his life for that of Adam thereby satisfying all JUSTICE (which paradoxically is Himself too)
So, God does love his children, and yes, a loving God would never throw his children into a place of eternal torment forever. He did not create hell for his children, and to the contrary , the bible describes death and the consequent state called hell as enemies that shall be conquered last ( Rev 19:20, Rev 20:10, Rev 20:14, Rev 20:15 ) Jesus is also described in the bible as storming hell to plunder the enemy there (doesn’t sound like a friendly prison to me).
(Rev 1:1 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
The torment that goes on forever and ever described in Rev 20:10 is as a result of the utter separation from God in the Lake of Fire as I have already explained. Now all those humans that will partake of this second death have all been given a second chance. Those who never heard of The Solution before there deaths will be given a chance in the millennial reign (you can look this up with real bible scholars, so everyone is given the same choice that Adam had.
So it all boils down to free will, either you accept The Solution or not. So, people do not “go to hell” because of their religion, race, intimate orientation etc, they “go to hell” because that is the state they were born in, except they accept The Solution of a loving Father.
Enough of all this bible quoting! There are people who don’t even believe the bible but even folklore (Nigerian Folklore) tells us of how the spirits of wicked people haunt dark places, crying and looking for rest. Sounds like hell to me. We are also told that good men go to meet their ancestors. Remember what Jesus said about Lazarus and the rich man? Lazarus (a good man) was in the bosom of Abraham his ancestor while the rich man was tormented. I can deduce from this that even in “hell” there was a difference in the amount of trauma experienced by a spirit based on how he lived his life and satisfied his conscience, at least till the permanent solution came. Even David, thousands of years before Jesus, talked about the assurance that his soul would not be left in hell (Ps 16:10, sorry I quoted again) but rescued someday.
Forgive me for the long post, I hope it will be useful to someone:) |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 11:59:39
If I stood in front of my children and took a bullet meant for them so that I died in their place, GIAM2 would lambast my mother for murdering me. After all, shouldn't a mother (or father) sacrifice themselves for their children? Real nice.
Where does it end. Should my ancestors be held accountable if I sacrifice my life for my children?
Jesus laid down His life for those He cared about, us. He was not an infant, or a toddler, or even a teenager. He was God. And, He knew that He could take His life back up again. So while the lesson was learned by many, He is not dead. And even amoung those who took His life, many were saved as a result - because of the lesson He gave.
Too bad there are so many who just didn't get it. |
| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 09:56:50
Gnosticism is the proverbial "riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma."
It is, whatever you wish it to be. A perfect practice for the ego centric.
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| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 09:46:59
"Today, if you hear His Voice, harden not your heart."
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| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 09:45:13
DL,
All that a person need do, is repent of their sins and ask for forgiveness in order to receive God's mercy and grace.
It's all there, for the asking.
We must will ourselves to ask.
Asking shows our faith.
Repenting displays our hope.
Receiving His mercy and grace - in exchange for our sins - is a really great deal.
This exchange - between a Father and His children - develops family unity, bonds and love.
|
| Greatest I am 2 |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 09:36:38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U
If the bible is true, as you seem to think it is even though it is all myth, then you might recall that it says that your God also gave Satan the power to deceiver the whole world.
So what should you do?
Go by moral standards, right?
Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Is hell good?
Better to shovel coal in hell than to spend eternity in heaven watching friends, neighbors and our children in torture and flame forever.
Only a sick mind would conceive of such a situation or wish it upon anyone. That is why God would not do such because then, heaven would be hell.
If those in heaven did not go insane then they could not have once been human or good.
You should think of hell just a bit and recognize that God would not create such an immoral construct. Lose your barbaric tribal mentality. We are in 2012, not 112.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9FKn4rKXEY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpJ8PGT2yY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7CkQaQpU&feature=related
If you are going to go by morality, then question your morality.
Judgment and punishment go hand in hand.
Our human laws have a form of punishment where the penalty is graduated to fit the crime. An eye for an eye type of justice. As scriptures urge when they are not preaching death for miniscule sins.
God‘s punishment seems to surpass this standard.
The definition I am comparing here is the eternal fire and torture type of hell and I am not particularly interested in the myriad of other definitions and theories that some use to supplant this traditional view.
To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these simple question for yourself.
1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?
2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?
This might actually include God if you see Noah’s flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression.
Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent.
3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result?
4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?
Is hell a moral construct or not?
Please explain your reasons and know that ---just because God created it ---does not explain your moral judgment. It is your view I seek and not God’s as no one can speak for God.
You go ahead though and line up for heaven in that line on the right but do not be surprised when you join Kenny in hell. That is the place for those who will try to profit from God having his son needlessly murdered
Regards
DL |
| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 09:36:04
P.S. Christianity is 2,000 years old, and her King and leader is eternal.
No more "enlightenment" or "maturation" is needed in Christianity - particularly not from this generation which has become notorious for its militant anti-christs.
The true enlightened and mature Christians, already exist, in their purity in the Early Church. They are the Apostles and their Jewish and pagan converts who allowed for the martyring of their own bodies in order to save His Church.
Nothing in our age is "enlightened or mature" that comes from either anti-christ paganism or the militant anti-christs. |
| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 09:19:00
DL,
It is not God who created an eternal absence from the Trinity.
We create that, by our will.
Will to be close to God and the Holy Spirit will be open to you.
Evil exists whether or not you admit to yourself that it does.
Covenant with God is family.
Coven with Evil is an eternity with a murderer and a liar.
|
| mikejuli |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 07:30:43
quote:
Originally posted by Greatest I am 2
If you though a murder was somehow the only way to save people, what would you choose to do.
i don't think murder is the only way to save people.. i'm not for abortion dude.. and there is a big difference between sacrifice and murder. if i choose to lay down my life for a friend then there is no murder. if all you can see in the gospel is a murder then i suggest you try to think outside of the puny box you squeezed your head into.
quote:
Show your love for your son by having him murdered, or having enough love to step up yourself?
there is one god. again with the puny head. look, if jesus were a son in the human sense that would be one thing.. but the trinity isn't saying that. jesus isn't a separate god who is the son of another father god.. they are one. so this argument is out.
quote:
A simple questin eh?
Give an answer if you dare instead of just spouting your brain numbing dogma.
got answers aplenty for your brain numbing dogmas giam. it would be nice though if you whiners would just try your own criticism on yourself for a change. i grow weary of having to explain simple ideas which have been misconstrued and exaggerated by someone who should know better.
quote:
Who would die? You or your child?
Regards
DL
i am a father and a son. so are you. so who dies? the father or the son? please think about this giam. cause if you say you would die then your still someone elses son.. so if i were a whiner like you i would ask why your father is such a loser that he would let his son die...
see how fun it is to play word games?
seriously though do take the time to think and challenge your own claims... it's what i do. i'm a skeptic first and foremost of my own beliefs. that keeps me honest. it was my outsider test of faith before the term became popular.
now there is always the chance that your just trying to be offensive cause you get off on it. if that is the case.. oh well. your not the first, you wont be the last of that lazy brood. but i don't know.. are you sincere or just a sophist?
|
| michael |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 06:43:38
quote:
Originally posted by Greatest I am 2
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Hell is for people who don't love God.
Love me or burn forever.
Nice God you have there.
Do you give your children the same option for you?
Regards
DL
I heard God created hell out of his mercy. That the evil may have a place to hide from the face of God.
Rev 6
[14] the sky vanished like a scroll that is rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
[15] Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the generals and the rich and the strong, and every one, slave and free, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains,
[16] calling to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;
Hell is for people who don't love God. Kind of like how prison is for people who do not love their neighbor. |
| Greatest I am 2 |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 04:59:11
If the bible is true, as you seem to think it is even though it is all myth, then you might recall that it says that your God also gave Satan the power to deceiver the whole world.
So what should you do?
Go by moral standards, right?
Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Is hell good?
Better to shovel coal in hell than to spend eternity in heaven watching friends, neighbors and our children in torture and flame forever.
Only a sick mind would conceive of such a situation or wish it upon anyone. That is why God would not do such because then, heaven would be hell.
If those in heaven did not go insane then they could not have once been human or good.
You should think of hell just a bit and recognize that God would not create such an immoral construct. Lose your barbaric tribal mentality. We are in 2012, not 112.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9FKn4rKXEY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpJ8PGT2yY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7CkQaQpU&feature=related
If you are going to go by morality, then question your morality.
Judgment and punishment go hand in hand.
Our human laws have a form of punishment where the penalty is graduated to fit the crime. An eye for an eye type of justice. As scriptures urge when they are not preaching death for miniscule sins.
God‘s punishment seems to surpass this standard.
The definition I am comparing here is the eternal fire and torture type of hell and I am not particularly interested in the myriad of other definitions and theories that some use to supplant this traditional view.
To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these simple question for yourself.
1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?
2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?
This might actually include God if you see Noah’s flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression.
Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent.
3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result?
4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?
Is hell a moral construct or not?
Please explain your reasons and know that ---just because God created it ---does not explain your moral judgment. It is your view I seek and not God’s as no one can speak for God.
As for my dropping being a Gnostic Christian and becoming Christian. No thanks, my soul is too important for me to join a religion based on human sacrifice that in and of itself is immoral.
You go ahead though and line up for heaven in that line on the right but do not be surprised when you join Kenny in hell. That is the place for those who will try to profit from God having his son needlessly murdered
Regards
DL |
| Greatest I am 2 |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 04:57:48
If you though a murder was somehow the only way to save people, what would you choose to do.
Show your love for your son by having him murdered, or having enough love to step up yourself?
A simple questin eh?
Give an answer if you dare instead of just spouting your brain numbing dogma.
Who would die? You or your child?
Regards
DL |
| mikejuli |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 18:01:44
quote:
Originally posted by Greatest I am 2
Staying immature eh?
Thanks for speaking of taking responsibility while you use a scapegoat Jesus to take yours.
You call evil good and that is why those who will try to profit from God having his son needlessly murdered will end in hell. Enjoy the heat of your immoral position.
Christianity is based on human sacrifice and that makes it immoral.
Regards
DL
oh boy. the pouter in you is starting to show giam. anyone as smart as you should know that the sacrifice of god, (not a mere human sacrifice) of his own volition, (not forced by irrisponsible people like you) places responsibility on all of us? you think it's a scapegoat but it's not. the minute christ forgave placed responsibility in our hands.. and still you choose to whine about it? |
| Greatest I am 2 |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 17:50:18
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Hell is for people who don't love God.
Love me or burn forever.
Nice God you have there.
Do you give your children the same option for you?
Regards
DL |
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