| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| baby3 |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 20:59:19
 Who do you see as the first fruits of God and why also when.What do you know about these people and their function? |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 19:31:40
Those who were not defiled were not so because they did not go to church.
The Martyrs died so that we could worship God in communion with Him and with each other.
Even during the most horrific persecutions, Christians gathered. Risking death at every meeting.
In Rome they gathered in the catecombs beneath the city and they left their marks on the walls - Christian art that shows that they were there.
The reason we have sponsors at baptisms is that during the persecutions, one had to be sponsored by someone inside the Christian community to ensure that it was not compromised. The risk was great.
Sometimes people take their church for granted and not everyone behaves as they should, but do not let humans get in the way of Christ's gift to you.
The Church is the medium for Christ's sacraments. It is the Sheep Fold that the Good Shepherd tends. It is the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth.
If you are ill and unable to attend, that is not a sin. But staying away out of a disagreement with someone is a sin, and no one should deliberately do anything that is a sin.
We are all sinners. And that is what the Church is for. Don't go for the pastor or for the deacon or for anyone else. The Mass is your birthrite. |
| baby3 |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 15:15:19
Oh, Well I don't go to church any more either as I have reasons why I don't go.Please don't tell me I'm a sinner cause we are all sinners etc. I don't go but it is in the making I have someone working with me on this.
he is a deacon of the church but we have to get together before I come back into the church in my area of the world. I did try to call the other day but no one answered the phone and it was at night but that does not mean anything,however I was hoping my call would be returned.I do not feel that I am going to hell not going to church I don't feel the church should scare anyone into going either.If I was a child they would care more but as an adult they really don't care what you do I found this out.Years ago the priest would come to your home and give you communion etc. or call you to see if you are ok and visit you but today they will not do this unless you are in a convalescent home then they visit everyone at the same time.Sorry I was a member of the Daughters of Isabella and tried to stay in contact but even my surgery last month no one but a lady I know ever got in touch with me to show they might care???? Fat chance. I am just getting back to the faith and not sure yet if it will even work I am learning Bewellmysoul, and that is why I am here. |
| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 14:07:08
Baby3,
What word search combos are you using?
Have I ever heard of people who don't do the Commandments (keep Holy the Sabbath)?
Yes, of course.
That's the enormous difficulty with the Reformation. Multiple denominations with varying opinions. So many options, so many opinions. Where is Truth?
Sounds like these people have opted out - possibly due to distrust. Hopefully they are being honest about their refusal to keep God's Commandment.
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| baby3 |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 13:34:55
I went to the net again but I found quite a differentials on this subject,the one I like is that they are innocent of any churches they do not attend any churches so they are not defiled, then they said they only read the bible and let the Holy Spirit lead them in life. That was strange one has anyone here ever herd of this? I did only once on a forum a few years ago and then someone e-mailed me and asked me to join their group of non Church Christians forum it was part of the Latter Day Rain forum and then they were not there any more?? |
| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 05/21/2012 : 08:34:54
quote:
Originally posted by baby3
OK now when you offer the tithes at mass does the priest say"Father let this sacrifice be acceptable unto you?????
I have asked this over and over again and No catholic has ever herd the Priest ever say this but it is during communion and as the offering is being led to the alter.
I think that Protestants think they are offering the Lord over and over again can you renterate on this some? B3
The sacrifices being offered include 1) our giving up our sinful nature 2) the work of our hands (money in support of His Church) 3) the reverence and love we are building with the Trinity 4) the reverence and love we are building with family, friends, neighbors, etc. |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 05/18/2012 : 19:02:34
Yes, that seems more likely. |
| baby3 |
Posted - 05/18/2012 : 18:04:32
AH! Yes I learned it was woman(Countries or Governments) Not actually virgin men,this was what ai was told it meant.Maybe a people that are not defiled with the world,clean and innocent? In their hearts that is:) B3 |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 15:59:06
And yes, Revelation can be a little confusing, but the whole book is in code and not to be taken absolutely literally.
I am not an expert on Revelation, this could be a reference to the celibate priesthood, but in any case is not slamming women. The marriage bed is undefiled, the Bible says so, but men are not allowed to be running around with prostitutes or otherwise engaging in pre-marital or extra-marital sex. This would defile.
In Revelation 14, it may not be referring to actual sex with women at all, but rather chasing after other gods. The subject matter looks more like idolatry. |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 15:50:32
"May this sacrifice be acceptable..."
Yes, something like this is said during the Mass and I am pretty sure that someone did answer you elsewhere.
It is liturgical language that has been used for thousands of years. Of course the offering of Christ is acceptable as He is our Perfect Offering, but we are not recrucifying Christ, that was already done. All we are doing is offering up the perfect gift that He gave us to offer at the Last Supper.
While I don't know if it is correct, I have always thought that the wording also applied to the initial sacrifice that we offer up - the bread and wine made with human hands that becomes the body and blood of Our Lord. We also unite all of our own personal sacrifices with Christ's Perfect Sacrifice at this time. St. Paul said that we are to offer up our own bodies as living sacrifices to God. This we should always be doing, but even more so during the Mass.
The Mass has gone through some aesthetic changes over the centuries but the core of it has remained essentially the same for a very long time - Jewish services are not substantially different from what we do. So the language may seem odd when we consider the perfection of our offering in Christ, it is ancient and very appropriate for the liturgy. |
| baby3 |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 14:57:11
By the way what does revelation:14:1-5 mean to you?
Here we find first fruits to,but my question is this,Why would God make woman and then tell all to mulitply and be fruitful and then in this scripture condemn woman and insult them like this?? Defile? Did he not make man and woman for each other? Or does this scripture mean something different because as Charistain woman I am insulted to think my God thinks of me in such a underminded manner as to say Defile?? No wonder some men hate woman and kill them to because of scriptures beinig explained in different way as to confuse the very elcet??? B3 |
| baby3 |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 14:45:49
OK now when you offer the tithes at mass does the priest say"Father let this sacrifice be acceptable unto you?????I have asked this over and over again and No catholic has ever herd the Priest ever say this but it is during communion and as the offering is being led to the alter.I think that Protestants think they are offering the Lord over and over again can you renterate on this some? B3 |
| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 05/14/2012 : 08:00:14
http://old.usccb.org/nab/bible/deuteronomy/deuteronomy26.htm
Deuteronomy 26 -
Explanation of the liturgical celebration of First Fruits from the Old Testament.
At each Catholic Mass, we also liturgically celebrate Jesus - the sacrifical "First Fruit" and we offer His Church our tithes.
We in return, receive Christ is the Eucharist, in the form of unleavened bread and wine. His Work of the wheat and the vine. |
| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 05/14/2012 : 07:31:35
I've always been interested in this "first fruit" wording in Scripture.
I'm a gardener and first fruit has a specific meaning when talking about vegtable plants.
When a vining plant grows (tomato, watermelon, muskmelon, pumpkin, etc.) very early it will put out a "first fruit". It's a safety measure for the plant's progeny; if left on the plant, the vine will send it's energy toward that one fruit.
If the "first fruit" is removed early, the vine will send back out a multitude of new blossoms and the harvest will be plentiful.
Notice here; the easy fit where Scripture in John 15:5 tells us that Jesus is the "True Vine and that My Father is the Husbandman" and "you are the branches."
In the same way, Jesus was His Church's "first fruit". He additionally, was the Seed that had to die in order that His Church would produce a full harvest.
In the Old Testament, the Festival of First Fruits was celebrated by waving the staffs of wheat as they processed to the Temple Mount.
quote:
Hebrew perspective
In Ancient Israel, First Fruits were a type of terumah that was akin to, but distinct from, terumah gedolah.
While terumah gedolah was an agricultural tithe, Bikkurim (discussed in the Bikkurim tractate of the Talmud) were a sacrificial gift brought up to the altar. (Bikkurim 3:12).
The major obligation to bring First Fruits (Heb. Bikkurim) to the Temple began at the festival of Shavuot and continued until the festival of Sukkot. (Bikkurim 1:6).
This tithe was limited to the traditional seven agricultural products (wheat, barley, grapes in the form of wine, figs, pomegranates, olives in the form of oil, and dates) grown in Israel.[2]
This tithe, and the associated festival of Shavuot, is legislated by the Torah.[3]
Textual critics speculate that these regulations were imposed long after the offerings and festival had developed.[4]
The pilgrims that brought up the Bikkurim to the Temple were obligated to recite a declaration set forth in Deuteronomy 26:3-10. (Bikkurim 3:6).
This declaration was incorporated into a beautiful and grand festive celebration with a procession of pilgrims marching up to Jerusalem and then the Temple with gold, silver or willow baskets to which live birds were tied. (Bikkurim 3:3,5 and 8).
The pilgrims were led by flutists to the city of Jerusalem where they were greeted by dignitaries. (Bikkurim 3:3).
The procession would then resume with the flutist in lead until the Temple Mount where the Leviim would break out in song. (Bikkurim 3:4).
The birds were given as sacrificial offerings and the declaration would be made before a priest while the basket was still on the pilgrim's shoulder. (Bikkurim 3:5-6).
After the basket was presented to the priest, it was placed by the Altar and the pilgrim would bow and leave. (Bikkurim 3:6).
The Judaic Feast of Firstfruits falls on Nisan 16, the day after High Sabbath of Nisan 15, which is the first day of the Festival of Matzah (Unleavened Bread).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Fruits#Hebrew_perspective
quote:
In the Canonical Gospels, the concept of the harvest of First Fruits is used metaphorically and allegorically.
In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus is described as stating that “in the time of harvest” he would instruct the harvesters (i.e., the angels) to gather the “tares”, bind them into bundles, and burn them, but to "gather the wheat into [his] barn" (Matthew 13:30).
In the Gospel of John, Jesus is described as stating “...he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together” (John 4:36), which some Christians argue is about rewards from God for those who perform God’s work.
First Fruits means to appropriately mark a portion of the produce of the field as belonging to God.
In the Law of Moses there is a parallel between the offering of first fruits and the offering of the first-born male which opens the womb. The latter belongs to the Lord, and must be either sacrificed to him, or redeemed. This is completely different from tithing.
The Apostle Paul also referred to Jesus' resurrection as a type of "First Fruit" (1Corinthians 15:20) where he says:
"But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Fruits#Hebrew_perspective
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4gecx_HzHw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTuVB3ZE4bo&feature=related |
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