| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| evangelist |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 07:35:26
Hello Faith and whosoever!
let continue the study and truth of Roman 6 on this thread!
Now can we continue in Roman 6?
Ro:6:5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Notice how this is a done deal by reading the words ( have been), and a perfect seed has been planted, and that seed is just like the seed of Our perfect Saviour also in His death we have also died, so evenagliet died year ago so the new Evangelist which is here is the new born again perfect, justified Evangelist which all brand new Holy desires, and will towards all things of God!
So my likeness is Just like Jesus in this earth, because I got up or came back again a new evangelist, in a zoe life and a SOZO life in Christ!
So do you see the same as me only this time putting your name in where my name is posted?ß
one love! |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 05/20/2013 : 17:16:27
Don't go separating our body into peices.
Remember what Jesus said? IF you hand causes you to sin, cut it off.
It does not matter what part does the sinning.
God judges the Heart. NOTHING ELSE. Whatever is in our heart controls what we do. What flows out. If there is no sin in our heart, we won't sin. If there is sin in our heart, we will.
That is why Jesus rebuked those who fussed over His disciples not washing their hands before they ate. Sin does not come from outside the body, but from within. And we must purge if from ourselves just as we must purge it from our Faith Community, as Paul instructed the Corinthians.
If we are dead to sin, we must remove ourselves from sin.
You are making up rules for the Scriptures based on your own assumption about a few verses that do not say what you imagine they do. I already explained the "seal". There is no way to make it mean what you think it does. You are applying alternative definitions from the English language, but they do not apply.
The closest we get to your meaning, by imagination only, is in Matthew 27:66 where the stone was sealed and a watch set. But they sealed the stone as evidence that the tomb remained unopened - like police tape on a crime scene.
You also assume that because Jesus is with us in Spirit, that this somehow means that He replaced our own spirit with His. That is obsurd. That would mean that we were Jesus and not ourselves any more and that our unredeemed spirits were now burning in Hell waiting for our flesh and blood bodies to join them. |
| evangelist |
Posted - 05/20/2013 : 04:48:54
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
No he isn't. If that were the case, the rest of this very letter would be a contradiction to this chapter.
Being dead to sin, means we are separated from it. This can only remain true if we continue to keep our selves separated from it. Paul points this out several times, so why make a pretense that this is not so.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
What or who is he talking to and what part of our body directs our actions??
What part of our body serves or disobeys?
one love faith |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 05/19/2013 : 15:32:39
No he isn't. If that were the case, the rest of this very letter would be a contradiction to this chapter.
Being dead to sin, means we are separated from it. This can only remain true if we continue to keep our selves separated from it. Paul points this out several times, so why make a pretense that this is not so.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
|
| evangelist |
Posted - 05/19/2013 : 10:55:20
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
If you were LITERALLY in your grave, dead and NOT coming back until Judgment Day, then you could not sin any longer.
But Paul was not talking about being LITERALLY dead. He meant dead in the sense of SEPARATION. I.e. when the prodigal son demanded his inheritance early and left to live a life of debauchery, he was DEAD to his father. NO contact. No family benefit. No nothing. DEAD and damned. NEVER to be considered again as alive to the father - unless...
The only way that the prodigal son could be alive to the Father was through REPENTANCE. Then, and ONLY then, when the son returned to the father and left his sinful ways behind him, was the son alive to the Father.
SO. When we are dead to sin, this means we no longer have contact with sin. We consider sin to be nothing to us and have NO PART in it.
The test is simple. If you no longer desire to sin with your flesh, then you are dead to sin. If you are able to avoid sin, and no longer feel drawn to it, but are instead repulsed by it, then you are dead to sin.
NO! spiritally dead or we have died in our old spirit which was imputted rotten, dirty, low down no good containenated spirit from the fall of Adam , to been risen in the new spirit of Christ Spirit which is our born again spirit which is all holy , sanctified, justified, before God and all the angels!
This is what paul is saying in Roman 6!
one love |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 05/05/2013 : 16:44:20
If you were LITERALLY in your grave, dead and NOT coming back until Judgment Day, then you could not sin any longer.
But Paul was not talking about being LITERALLY dead. He meant dead in the sense of SEPARATION. I.e. when the prodigal son demanded his inheritance early and left to live a life of debauchery, he was DEAD to his father. NO contact. No family benefit. No nothing. DEAD and damned. NEVER to be considered again as alive to the father - unless...
The only way that the prodigal son could be alive to the Father was through REPENTANCE. Then, and ONLY then, when the son returned to the father and left his sinful ways behind him, was the son alive to the Father.
SO. When we are dead to sin, this means we no longer have contact with sin. We consider sin to be nothing to us and have NO PART in it.
The test is simple. If you no longer desire to sin with your flesh, then you are dead to sin. If you are able to avoid sin, and no longer feel drawn to it, but are instead repulsed by it, then you are dead to sin. |
| evangelist |
Posted - 05/05/2013 : 15:56:47
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
This thread is about done now that it has hit 20. It may be locked soon, so I am going to do a full chapter recap:
Romans 6
King James Version (KJV)
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Good question. If we are dead to sin, then how can we presume to continue to sin with our bodies?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
And this would be WATER baptism. There is only ONE Baptism for the Remission of sins, and this was done with water. Only ONE Baptism for Christians PERIOD, this involved both water and spirit. If there were more than ONE Baptism, then Paul would have stated how many baptisms there were. He said ONE. One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism. PERIOD. Ephesians 4:5
And, frankly, one of the reasons that Pentecostals and Baptists INSIST that only Baptism by total SUBmersion is acceptable is that they insist that this is the only way to properly symbolize that BURIAL with Christ. So drop any pretense of not knowing this.
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Amen. Just as Christ walked, we are to walk. Did Christ SIN? No? When then neither should we commit sin. We are not talking about Jesus’ spirit. JESUS, IN THE FLESH, did not sin. And after He rose from the dead, He was still in bodily form, not just spirit, and He still did not sin.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Amen. We are freed from the bondage of sin, and our “old man” (our old sinful self) has been crucified with Jesus and we are called to let our old man GO.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Amen. Christ died and rose, and HE, Jesus, can’t die a second time.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Jesus died and lives unto God. Jesus.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen. We are to consider ourselves to be dead to sin – to avoid it and refuse to have any part of it. If we are dead to sin, then why would we engage in sin? NO CONTACT with sin. NO participation in sin. If we engage in sin, then we are NOT dead to sin.
We are to consider ourslves to be dead to sin, but alive to God, though Jesus.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Amen. Anyone who is dead to sin has no business engaging in sin. Dead to sin means NO CONTACT with sin. And this is not referring to our Spirits. Spirits are immortal. It is our mortal bodies as Paul mentions above that are dead to sin and no longer to engage in sin.
We have to choose – sin or Jesus. We can’t have both.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Amen. We serve whom we obey. We have been freed from the slavery of sin. We have a choice now – do we serve sin unto Death, or obey Christ unto Righteousness? It is a choice that we have to make every day. Some days it is easier than others. But we should always be choosing Jesus right?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Amen. They used to be sinners, but now they obey God. Jesus showed us how. Paul teaches Christ’s perfect example. These former sinners now serve Christ by obeying His Commandments.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
According to Paul, the wages of sin is still death, but the gift of God, should we choose to accept it, is eternal life. And if you read the full chapter, Paul does not say that we accept this gift by sinning. We have been freed from sin, a free gift from Jesus Christ. We didn’t have to do a thing for Jesus to do what He did. He died for our sins so that we could be freed from the slavery of sin.
DONE DEAL. The debt is paid. But that does not mean that we are free to rack up more debt. Jesus didn’t die so that we could continue in sin. As Paul would say “God Forbid!”
We are free from the bondage of sin. This is a free gift. The slate is wiped clean. Now we can walk with Christ or go back to sin. But we can’t have Christ AND sin.
This is what the Corinthians struggled with. They wanted Salvation, but they didn't want to give up their old Master. They liked their old Master. But Paul warned them several times that they can't serve their old Master any more. If they wanted to be saved, they had to renounce their old Master and accept Jesus as their Lord and Master. To obey HIM, instead of their lusts.
Now I know that you don't agree with me on the whole of Chapter 6, so how about picking a particular paragraph that you think stands out to make your point.
There are more than just one in that chapter , but to start off to a main point to Roman 6 os for you to answer the question can a person who is dead in a grave yard still sin and do anything wrong?
Please I am not talking about zombies!
when I GET AN ANSWWER from you on this then keep your answer on mind when I go through roman 6, it would keep everything in contexts!
one love |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 04/30/2013 : 19:40:41
This thread is about done now that it has hit 20. It may be locked soon, so I am going to do a full chapter recap:
Romans 6
King James Version (KJV)
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Good question. If we are dead to sin, then how can we presume to continue to sin with our bodies?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
And this would be WATER baptism. There is only ONE Baptism for the Remission of sins, and this was done with water. Only ONE Baptism for Christians PERIOD, this involved both water and spirit. If there were more than ONE Baptism, then Paul would have stated how many baptisms there were. He said ONE. One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism. PERIOD. Ephesians 4:5
And, frankly, one of the reasons that Pentecostals and Baptists INSIST that only Baptism by total SUBmersion is acceptable is that they insist that this is the only way to properly symbolize that BURIAL with Christ. So drop any pretense of not knowing this.
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Amen. Just as Christ walked, we are to walk. Did Christ SIN? No? When then neither should we commit sin. We are not talking about Jesus’ spirit. JESUS, IN THE FLESH, did not sin. And after He rose from the dead, He was still in bodily form, not just spirit, and He still did not sin.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Amen. We are freed from the bondage of sin, and our “old man” (our old sinful self) has been crucified with Jesus and we are called to let our old man GO.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Amen. Christ died and rose, and HE, Jesus, can’t die a second time.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Jesus died and lives unto God. Jesus.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen. We are to consider ourselves to be dead to sin – to avoid it and refuse to have any part of it. If we are dead to sin, then why would we engage in sin? NO CONTACT with sin. NO participation in sin. If we engage in sin, then we are NOT dead to sin.
We are to consider ourslves to be dead to sin, but alive to God, though Jesus.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Amen. Anyone who is dead to sin has no business engaging in sin. Dead to sin means NO CONTACT with sin. And this is not referring to our Spirits. Spirits are immortal. It is our mortal bodies as Paul mentions above that are dead to sin and no longer to engage in sin.
We have to choose – sin or Jesus. We can’t have both.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Amen. We serve whom we obey. We have been freed from the slavery of sin. We have a choice now – do we serve sin unto Death, or obey Christ unto Righteousness? It is a choice that we have to make every day. Some days it is easier than others. But we should always be choosing Jesus right?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Amen. They used to be sinners, but now they obey God. Jesus showed us how. Paul teaches Christ’s perfect example. These former sinners now serve Christ by obeying His Commandments.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
According to Paul, the wages of sin is still death, but the gift of God, should we choose to accept it, is eternal life. And if you read the full chapter, Paul does not say that we accept this gift by sinning. We have been freed from sin, a free gift from Jesus Christ. We didn’t have to do a thing for Jesus to do what He did. He died for our sins so that we could be freed from the slavery of sin.
DONE DEAL. The debt is paid. But that does not mean that we are free to rack up more debt. Jesus didn’t die so that we could continue in sin. As Paul would say “God Forbid!”
We are free from the bondage of sin. This is a free gift. The slate is wiped clean. Now we can walk with Christ or go back to sin. But we can’t have Christ AND sin.
This is what the Corinthians struggled with. They wanted Salvation, but they didn't want to give up their old Master. They liked their old Master. But Paul warned them several times that they can't serve their old Master any more. If they wanted to be saved, they had to renounce their old Master and accept Jesus as their Lord and Master. To obey HIM, instead of their lusts.
Now I know that you don't agree with me on the whole of Chapter 6, so how about picking a particular paragraph that you think stands out to make your point. |
| evangelist |
Posted - 04/30/2013 : 08:27:52
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
We can continue with 6, but it would be a grave mistake to forget what happened in the first 5 chapters.
St. Paul was very Catholic. This is readily apparent in all of his epistles. I have an icon of St. Paul in my home because he was and remains my favorite Apostle. I doubt very much that this study will change my opinion of the Catholic Church. But I do hope we can do justice to the chapter, and keep it in proper context. NO VERSE CAN BE READ ALONE. NO verse stands by itself. EVERY verse must be considered in light of the first five chapters. And no interpretation can be contrary to the rest of the NT Scriptures.
If you can accept that, then we can continue.
That is why I am not just taking one verse out of Romans 6 but we can go through the whole chapter in contexts and line by line to get a whole picture and truth of what Paul is saying and teaching in one chapter!
But to get a better all round deeper study we can go to other chapters, but first let finish Roman 6 like it is and as conclusion use other scriptures to bear witness of the truthok?
one love |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 04/29/2013 : 11:53:40
We can continue with 6, but it would be a grave mistake to forget what happened in the first 5 chapters.
St. Paul was very Catholic. This is readily apparent in all of his epistles. I have an icon of St. Paul in my home because he was and remains my favorite Apostle. I doubt very much that this study will change my opinion of the Catholic Church. But I do hope we can do justice to the chapter, and keep it in proper context. NO VERSE CAN BE READ ALONE. NO verse stands by itself. EVERY verse must be considered in light of the first five chapters. And no interpretation can be contrary to the rest of the NT Scriptures.
If you can accept that, then we can continue. |
| evangelist |
Posted - 04/29/2013 : 07:53:05
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
We can. But I was wondering if it might be better if we started at Romans 1.
NO! we don't have to go to the first chapter because paul is very clear and Romans 6 stays focus on one subject and in the truth of the context about sin issues and about who we are in Christ which is a chapter that leads to a perfect biblical foundation of all of Romans in one chapter!
So can we continue in roman 6???
You have nothing to lose except maybe droping out of a RCC and following the true teaching of Paul and the written word after ALL!
one love |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 04/28/2013 : 21:53:03
We can. But I was wondering if it might be better if we started at Romans 1. |
| evangelist |
Posted - 04/28/2013 : 18:11:07
Can we continue the study of roman 6 together here FAITH?
one love |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 04/27/2013 : 09:49:42
Luke 1:28. The word sometimes translated as “highly favoured” is used as a title. The Angel does not address Mary by name, but by this title alone. The form of this word is rare in the Bible. It is only used once and only with Mary. A similar form of the word is used a second time, and only to Born Again Christians when they have been SAVED - at that moment when they are perfect, sinless, spotless, etc.
Evangelist. You are a funny duck. You will make huge leaps with words and try to turn tenses into dogmas. The word form in the Greek is in the PERFECT tense. Mary is in a STATE of Grace that already existed when the Angel appeared to her. BEFORE, she conceived Jesus. BEFORE she even said yes.
You are quick to claim that the PERFECT tense makes you sinless. So why do you deny this for Mary? What makes YOU more important than the MOTHER of Our Lord?
Did anything change after that point? What changed with Mary? She said yes, conceived and bore Jesus Christ, raised Him and stood at the foot of the Cross when He died. Do you expect me to believe that any of that would lead Mary to start sinning? That HER SON, the SON OF GOD, would be incapable of preserving her?
The similar form that is used for Christians appears in Ephesians 1:6, and speaks of us being made objects of Grace, SAVED. SINLESS, PERFECT.
You accept this for yourself and yet deny it for Mary. I have news for you. Jesus KEPT the Commandments PERFECTLY, and one of those Commandments was to HONOUR His MOTHER. Jesus LOVES His Mother.
Don’t you be telling HIM that you think His mother was a low down dirty SINNER, after she herself says in the scriptures that she was already SAVED. One cannot have a saviour if they have not alrady been saved.
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| evangelist |
Posted - 04/27/2013 : 08:43:18
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
??? Of course Jesus is God. And No, Mary is not God.
If Mary was God, then Jesus would not have had to save her. But He did save her. Mary acknowledged that God SAVED her before she gave birth to Jesus. She was already saved. Past tense. Done deal.
She was MADE in a state of grace. Jesus didn't need to be made anything.
Where in the bible has a state of grace to any one being born sinless?
one love |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 04/26/2013 : 21:45:36
??? Of course Jesus is God. And No, Mary is not God.
If Mary was God, then Jesus would not have had to save her. But He did save her. Mary acknowledged that God SAVED her before she gave birth to Jesus. She was already saved. Past tense. Done deal.
She was MADE in a state of grace. Jesus didn't need to be made anything. |
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