| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| alcovey |
Posted - 07/20/2003 : 09:54:21
We are ready to begin discussing PART I, which focuses on the Purgation or Purifying of our desire to live a devout life.
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| john3 |
Posted - 07/19/2006 : 14:16:55
quote:
Originally posted by Scalia
Allen: My thoughts on Opus Dei
I am not a memeber but probably will be at some time in the future. Opus Dei is a personal prelature of the Church founded by a Spanish Priest in 1928. Opus Dei is 100% orthodox and to many, they have replaced the Jesuits as the vanguard of the Church. This Pope loves and respects Opus Dei, which irks liberal Catholics. More on this later.
The premise of Opus Dei is very simple: lay Catholics must lead their lives in a priestly manner, although they are not priests. You can join the group in various fashions: some unmarried lay people take vows of celibacy, while others are married and enjoy a full married life. Because Opus Dei is a personal prelature, they operate outside their local bishop. Their faith is white hot and unapologetic. They possess a missionary zeal unfamiliar to many Catholics.
I have attended numerous "evenings of recollections" held by an Opus Dei priest in a Baltimore suburb(only once did they ask for money and that was even a soft sell!). The evenings of recollections are held at a large home donated by a member, which has been converted to a chapel. The meetings draw an eccletic group of men from many races and nationalities. These members tend to be highly educated or extremely devout. A typical group of forty men, from my experience, will include: 5-6 medical doctors, 5-6 lawyers, 2-3 PhD's from the applied physics lab of Johns Hopkins, computer geeks, 3-4 graduates from service academies and blue collar folks. My roomate from the Naval Academy is thinking about joing right now. Opus Dei wants to evangelize all walks of life, including the highest realms of society. Justice Scalia attends Opus Dei retreats and I believe one of his sons is an Opus Dei priest. I also believe former CIA director Casey was a member. The chief in house counsel for Exxon Corp. is a member. The owner of Domino's pizza (Monihan sp?) is a member etc. I believe Monihan sold Domino's and is spending his fortune starting Catholic Univerities in several countries. The current priest who heads the group is a former Wall St. wonder boy who punched out to serve the Lord.
An interesting side note. Scott Hahn talked to 5-6 priests about converting to the Church. All the priests either tried to dissuade him or were ambivilant about his conversion. Then he met an Opus Dei priest who welcomed him with open arms. Opus Dei is big on converson.
Opus Dei has been attacked as a cult by various factions inside and outside the Church. The founder, Fr. JoseMaria, supported Franco against the communists in the Spanish Civil war. This is a per se wrong according to liberals. Many people are suspicious of the group because they operate outside their local bishop and thus question their accountability. I see this as a strength against the runaway American bishops who have always tended to needle Rome. Liberal distrust the group for all the above and because the group tends to be very conservative along social issues (just like the Holy Father!)
The group obviously isn't for everyone but you may want to check them out. Here is their site.
http://www.opusdei.org/
About anti-Opus thinking, the site http://lukeraid.tripod.com/opusdei/ might be also interesting |
| alcovey |
Posted - 07/07/2004 : 20:48:27
Bumping the thread for continuing our study. |
| Astralis |
Posted - 08/19/2003 : 11:52:32
Scalia is correct. The era of the 60s and 70s is coming to a close. |
| Scalia |
Posted - 08/19/2003 : 11:42:31
I'm pretty conservative myself. I see all the conversions of Hahn, Armstrong, Thigpen etc. as an incredible blessing on the Church. Fresh writings from former Protestants fascinate me. BTW, I'll bet the Holy Father would disagree with the "Church leader" you spoke of. |
| alcovey |
Posted - 08/19/2003 : 11:11:05
Thanks Scalia,
Excellent information. I thought I had heard Scott Hahn speak well of Opus Dei. I will have to look into them more. I wonder if they would be somewhat analagous to what Protestants call 'para-church' organization.
I heard one church leader who is of the more liberal bent, say: 'Scott Hahn is a dangerous man.' -  Which I don't get at all! I'm not one to get too caught up in the politics of things, but I tend to take a very conservative view on things.
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| Scalia |
Posted - 08/19/2003 : 07:49:20
Allen: My thoughts on Opus Dei
I am not a memeber but probably will be at some time in the future. Opus Dei is a personal prelature of the Church founded by a Spanish Priest in 1928. Opus Dei is 100% orthodox and to many, they have replaced the Jesuits as the vanguard of the Church. This Pope loves and respects Opus Dei, which irks liberal Catholics. More on this later.
The premise of Opus Dei is very simple: lay Catholics must lead their lives in a priestly manner, although they are not priests. You can join the group in various fashions: some unmarried lay people take vows of celibacy, while others are married and enjoy a full married life. Because Opus Dei is a personal prelature, they operate outside their local bishop. Their faith is white hot and unapologetic. They possess a missionary zeal unfamiliar to many Catholics.
I have attended numerous "evenings of recollections" held by an Opus Dei priest in a Baltimore suburb(only once did they ask for money and that was even a soft sell!). The evenings of recollections are held at a large home donated by a member, which has been converted to a chapel. The meetings draw an eccletic group of men from many races and nationalities. These members tend to be highly educated or extremely devout. A typical group of forty men, from my experience, will include: 5-6 medical doctors, 5-6 lawyers, 2-3 PhD's from the applied physics lab of Johns Hopkins, computer geeks, 3-4 graduates from service academies and blue collar folks. My roomate from the Naval Academy is thinking about joing right now. Opus Dei wants to evangelize all walks of life, including the highest realms of society. Justice Scalia attends Opus Dei retreats and I believe one of his sons is an Opus Dei priest. I also believe former CIA director Casey was a member. The chief in house counsel for Exxon Corp. is a member. The owner of Domino's pizza (Monihan sp?) is a member etc. I believe Monihan sold Domino's and is spending his fortune starting Catholic Univerities in several countries. The current priest who heads the group is a former Wall St. wonder boy who punched out to serve the Lord.
An interesting side note. Scott Hahn talked to 5-6 priests about converting to the Church. All the priests either tried to dissuade him or were ambivilant about his conversion. Then he met an Opus Dei priest who welcomed him with open arms. Opus Dei is big on converson.
Opus Dei has been attacked as a cult by various factions inside and outside the Church. The founder, Fr. JoseMaria, supported Franco against the communists in the Spanish Civil war. This is a per se wrong according to liberals. Many people are suspicious of the group because they operate outside their local bishop and thus question their accountability. I see this as a strength against the runaway American bishops who have always tended to needle Rome. Liberal distrust the group for all the above and because the group tends to be very conservative along social issues (just like the Holy Father!)
The group obviously isn't for everyone but you may want to check them out. Here is their site.
http://www.opusdei.org/ |
| Astralis |
Posted - 08/18/2003 : 21:11:24
While it would be best to get the finest teacher available, there is a lot to be learned from those who we don't always agree with.
I would say my first spirtitual advisor is a priest who I don't necessarily agree with in everything (a bit of a liberal, he is) but he taught me moderation. It started from the moment that I told him I was interested in joining the Catholic Church. He didn't say it was easy or that it was difficult. He didn't take me by the hand either - he guided me along my path which I forged on my own. Being an evangelical, I wasn't used to this method and truly had to discover spirituality on my own. I discovered Grace and how to use it.
While it would be nice to have a life-long spiritual advisor, perhaps one for a few years will suffice. |
| alcovey |
Posted - 08/18/2003 : 20:17:48
quote:
Originally posted by Scalia
Digression:
I will restart my reading this week. However, I will resurrect several issues that provoked quite a bit of thought when I left off.
1. General Confession: Alot to digest here. When I went on vacation in early August, I searched my memory for some sins that occured twenty years ago and have probably not confessed. This was a valuable process in several ways. First it keeps me grounded with the cnadid recognition that I have much to strive for and also reinforces the necessity that I should not judge others.
2. Spiritual Advisor: I need one. Much thought has gone into this and I am searching for someone I trust. Does anyone else on this board have a spiritual advisor. I am going to ask and Opus Dei priest later this month to be mine.
Scalia,
Sounds like you and I are in very similar places. I am in desperate need of a spiritual advisor - as I am just now really integrating into the Church. There was a priest here for about 10 weeks, but for some reason I just didn't make a connection with him. Trust is an issue for me as well, I find that even when I choose a doctor or insurance salesman - there needs to be a rapport - how much more with a spiritual advisor. And since I have yet to make my first general confession, I am uncertain as to how to proceed. And, I am seeing that one must choose their teachers well. Much harm can be done by listening to the wrong voices.
I'm still curious about Opus Dei - I was hoping you might start a thread on them, since you have mentioned them before. Spirituality takes on a different meaning for each of us - and that was a point I gleaned early on from deSales.
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| Scalia |
Posted - 08/18/2003 : 08:50:05
Digression:
I will restart my reading this week. However, I will resurrect several issues that provoked quite a bit of thought when I left off.
1. General Confession: Alot to digest here. When I went on vacation in early August, I searched my memory for some sins that occured twenty years ago and have probably not confessed. This was a valuable process in several ways. First it keeps me grounded with the cnadid recognition that I have much to strive for and also reinforces the necessity that I should not judge others.
2. Spiritual Advisor: I need one. Much thought has gone into this and I am searching for someone I trust. Does anyone else on this board have a spiritual advisor. I am going to ask and Opus Dei priest later this month to be mine. |
| Astralis |
Posted - 08/16/2003 : 11:45:27
These meditations, or devotional bouquets (nosegays), are brilliant.
Leaving sin in effect and affection is something I had never considered but it really, truly brings one closer to God.
A reflection on the meditations brought something I've only considered as happening to Jesus: His creation. We too, had our own little creationn (definitely not like the Incarnation, just to make that clear, though).
St. Francis asks us to consider that a certain number of years ago we were not yet in the world and that our present being was truly nothing.
Nothing. We were not in heaven, we were not floating around space, not in Hell. Completely nothing.
St. Francis says, "My soul, where were we at that time?" The world had already existed for a long time, but of us there was as yet nothing.
But God has drawn you out of that nothingness to make you waht you now are and he has done so solely out of his own goodness and without need of you.
Consider the nature God has given to you. It is the highest in this visible world; it is capable of eternal life and of being perfectly united to his Divine Majesty.
This spiritual bouquet positively haunts me all day. And I love it. Catholics generally focus on the Incarnation, which is truly wonderful, but I don't think anyone thinks about our own creation.
Because these nosegays have kept me focused on Part I, I am just starting Part II. What has your experience been with these devotional bouquets? Have these the same effect upon you as me?
Have you ever reflected upon your own creation from nothingness? |
| Astralis |
Posted - 08/03/2003 : 13:31:22
Xavier,
You're correct. This book is full of information; every sentence rich in detail. I also tried to read quickly but found myself wanting to reflect upon every paragraph.
St. Francis is very adept, as I can see, at showing how to be closer to God and how to see that we're in His presence.
I'm sure charismatic training is beneficial, and all this information can be applied to a Tidentine Mass or Protestant fellowship worship with equal benefit. |
| Xavier |
Posted - 08/03/2003 : 13:22:55
I have tried to catch up this weekend but found it was unproductive to read too quickly.
Several thoughts.
the use of the terms charity and devotion is of different definition presently used.
This book is very "Catholic" which I knew going in but can be usefull to non Catholics.
The meditations are good and are what slowed me down. For me they cant be glossed over and hurried.
I liked that DeSales says we must begin every prayer in the presense of God. In my Charismatic training we are taught to enter into His gates with thanksgiving and into His courts with praise (PS 100:4).
There are times that just to set our affections of thoughts on Him will bring us directly into his presense.
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| Theophilus |
Posted - 08/02/2003 : 17:25:17
quote:
Originally posted by Admin
St. Francis is very clear upon these four things:
1. that by sin, you have lost God's grace
2. given up your place in paradise,
3. chosen the eternal pains of hell,
4. and rejected God's eternal love
Can I have a witness?!
Amen, my brother! |
| Astralis |
Posted - 08/02/2003 : 12:58:53
St. Francis is very clear upon these four things:
1. that by sin, you have lost God's grace
2. given up your place in paradise,
3. chosen the eternal pains of hell,
4. and rejected God's eternal love
Can I have a witness?!
|
| AbidingNHim |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 13:29:37
18. The Tenth Meditation - The Election and Choice the Soul Makes of a Devout Life
quote:
1. Again imagine yourself to be in an open field alone with your guardian angel and that you see the devil seated high upon a huge throne. Attended by many infernal spirits and surrounded by a great throng of worldly people who with "uncovered heads hail him as their lord and pay him homage", some by one sin and some by another. Note the faces of all the unfortunate courtiers of that abominable king. See how some of them are furious with hatred, envy, and anger, others are consumed with care and burdened down by worries as they think and strive to heap up wealth. See how others are bent upon vain pursuits that bring empty and unsatisfying pleasure and how others are defiled, ruined, and putrefied by their brutish lusts. See how they are without rest, order, and decency. See how they despise one another and make only a false show of love. In a word, you see there a commonwealth lying in ruins and tyrannized over by this accursed king. All this will move you to compassion.
2. On the right side you see Jesus Christ crucified. With heartfelt love he prays for these poor tormented people so that they may be set free from such tyranny, and he calIs them to himself. Around him you see a great throng of devout souls together with their guardian angels. Contemplate the beauty of this devout kingdom. How beautiful it is to see this throng of virgins, both men and women, an whiter than lilies, and this gathering of widows filled with sacred mortification and humility! See the crowded ranks of the married who live so calmly together in mutual respect, which cannot be had without great charity. See how these devout souls wed care of the exterior house to that of the interior, that is, the love of their earthly spouse with that of the heavenly Spouse. Consider them all as a group and see how all of them in a holy, sweet, and lovely manner attend on our Lord, and how they long to place him in the center of their hearts. They are joyful, but with a gracious, loving, and well-ordered joy. They love one another, but with a most pure and sacred love. Among these devout people those who suffer affliction are not over-concerned about their sufferings and never lose courage. To conclude, look upon the eyes of the Savior who comforts them, and see how all of them together aspire to him.
3. You have already left Satan with his sad and wretched throng by way of the good affections that you have conceived. Still you have not yet joined Jesus the King, nor have you enrolled in his blessed company of devout souls, but you have always been between the two.
4. The Blessed Virgin, together with St. Joseph, St. Louis, St. Monica, and a hundred thousand others in the ranks of those living in the world invite you and encourage you.
5. The crucified King calls you by name, "Come, my well-beloved, come, that I may crown you."
This was especially moving to me. Choices! I choose life! |
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