| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| God4me |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 11:20:41
Scriptural and Greek proof that Mary wasn't always a virgin and she had other children.
1)The Greek word for Brethren, Is "Adelphos", It can mean,
[A] Brothers of the same womb.
[B]Spiritual brothers.
[C]Near-Kinsman.
It can means Spiritual brethren or kinsman, But only in it's right context.
Just like the word, "Save", It doesn't just mean salvation from sin.
It means, among others,
SAVED FROM SIN, Matt 1: 21.
SAVED FROM THE SEA, Matt 14: 30.
Healed, Lk 18: 42.
And you have to put it in it'd right context.
The context of Brethren, As in, "Kinsman", Lk 2: 44.
The context as "Spiritual brethren". 1 Cor 14: 26.
2)Biblical proof That Mary had other children.
The Greek word for "Brethren" is Adelphos"
Matt 13: 55. Mk 6: 3. Jn 7: 3-5. Acts 1: 13--14. 1 Cor 9: 5.
In this context it means, I Quote,
"Brothers of the same womb as Jesus".
3)The Greeek word for, "Cousin", Is,[Sungenis]
And Kinsfolk is,[Sungenes].
Lk 1: 36,& v58. Lk 2: 44. Lk 21: 16.
PLEASE NOTE. How,
Lk 21: 16. Jn 7: 3-5. Acts 1: 13--14. & 1 Cor 9: 5. Puts the difference between Jesus's brothers and the other kinsmen and the other Disciples.
4)If Jesus's brothers in Matt 13: 55. Mk 6: 3. meant Cousin or kinfolk, The Greek word would be, "Sungenis, Or Sungenes".
And it would read like this,
"Is this not Mary His mother, and His Sungenes, Sungenis, James, Joses, Simon and Judas".
But it reads like this.
"And His Adelphos, James, Joses, Simon and Judas".
You have to put the right meaning to the right Scriptures.
5)Sisters. "Adelphe"
Spiritual sisters, Matt 12: 50. Rom 16: 1.
Family sisters of the same mother, Matt 13: 56. Matt 19: 29.
NOTE, The Sisters in Matt 13: 56, Are Jesus's sisters and thei mother is Mary.
6)Mary lost her virginity.
As we have seen Mary had other children.
And Matt 1: 25 proves she had a normal marital relationship with Joseph.
Matt 1: 25.
Joseph knew her not till she brought forth her first born".
[A]The Greek meaning for, "Till", is, Until.
This is how it reads in the Greek.
"Joseph didn't have a sexual relationship with Mary Until after Jesus was born"..Meaning He did agter the birth of Jesus.
[B]NOTE The word, "Firstborn".. Not only born.
The meaning for "Firstborn" is self expaining.
The Greek word for firstborn is, "Prototokos" It's meaning is made up of, "Protos", First, And, "Tikto" to be born.
If Jesus was Mary's only-born, The Greek word would be,
"Monogenes", Mono, [Only] and geno [Born.
If Jesus was Mary's only born
Matt 1: 25 would read like this,
"S Until she brought forth her, Mongenes son".
But it reads like this,
"Untill she brought forth her Prototokos son".
So, Not only does the Bible say Jesus was Mary's firstborn, But the greek proves He was as well, And it proves that Mary had other children.
Prototokos is always used in the new testament as, FIRST among others.
For instance,
Rom 8: 29, Says Jesus is the firstborn among many brethren, He was the fist, And Born again Christians are the people who are just like Jesus. Jn 17: 20--23.
Col 1 : 18, Says Jesus was the first to be born again, He was the first, And born again Christians are the rest.
NOTE, Matt 1: 25, says,
Mary brought forth HER firstborn. ..Not only born.
So, If the Bible and the original Greek meanings won't convince you, Nothing will. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| God4me |
Posted - 04/28/2012 : 00:47:03
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
G4Me,
Your mindset is that personalized souls (released from the body at death) are either dead or incapacitated or inactive in our world.
Catholics believe in the cloud of witnesses (the Communion of Saints) and that the prayers to and from the faithfully departed are as active in this world as they were in their body.
Unfortuneate that in your faith, the faithfully departed are incapable of intercession.
The Bible doesn't teach that DOES IT??.NO..NO..
But when did the catholics ever teach the Biblical truths?. |
| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 12:51:13
G4Me,
Your mindset is that personalized souls (released from the body at death) are either dead or incapacitated or inactive in our world.
Catholics believe in the cloud of witnesses (the Communion of Saints) and that the prayers to and from the faithfully departed are as active in this world as they were in their body.
Unfortuneate that in your faith, the faithfully departed are incapable of intercession.
|
| God4me |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 12:01:06
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us
run with patience the race that is set before us,
This passage immediately follows the famous Hall of Faith discourse in Chapter 11. These are our witnesses. And they are all around us.
James 5:16 16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Who is more righteous than those who have made it to Heaven? Or do you doubt the Blessed Mother's salvation?
Luke 1:43 43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Was this some other "Lord"? Or was it Jesus? Mary IS the mother of Jesus, Our Lord.
Revelation 5:7-9 7And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
This is called intercession. And the elders carried with them the prayers of the saints. Do you think that Jesus just stores the prayers said to Him with the saints in Heaven?
Revelation 8:3-5 3And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
More intercession, this time with the angels - and they respond - don't let the Apocalyptic language fool you. This is not a terrible event.
If you are building s doctrine of the heavenlt saints praying for us, And us praying to them.
You are compleatly twisting the scriptures.
But you have to twist the scriptures, Otherwise you don't have a doctrine.
Where does Rev 5: 8. And Rev 8: 3--4. say the heavenly saints are praying for us??.
Where does it say we are praying to them??.
STOP TWISTING THE TRUTH. |
| God4me |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 11:48:49
quote:
Originally posted by Theophilus
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-intercession-of-the-saints:
Fundamentalists often challenge the Catholic practice of asking saints and angels to pray on our behalf. But the Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.
Thus, in Psalm 103 we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20–21). And in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!"
Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.
Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3–4).
Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10).
Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).
[1]What in the world has Angels praising God got to do with the intercession of the departed saints??..WAKE UP.
[2]Where does, Rev 5: 8. And Rev 8: 3--4, Says the saints in heaven are praying for us???.
You are compleatly twisting the Bible AGAIN.
[3]There is onle ONE mediator between God and men,IN HEAVEN Jesus.
1 Tim 2: 5.
One mediator measn ONLY ONE MEDIATOR, If you cannot under stand plain English, Not wonder you don't understand the Bible.
[4]1 Tim 2: 1--4. Is talking about peope In this life praying for people in this life..WAKE UP.
Can't you see how you are twisting the Bible??, If you can't, Then you have been blinded by the devil.
Please give scriptures that prove the departed saints pray for us, And we can pray to them... There must be scriptures, Otherwise why would you have such a doctrine??.
So, At least two scrpitures that clearly say the heavenly saints pray for us, And we can pray for them.
And none of this rubish about One body, Those on earth and those in heaven.
I want two scriptures that clealy say it. |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 11:35:27
Hello Theophilus. |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 11:34:05
Jesus promised us eternal life, not eternal rotting in the grave or eternal sleep. |
| Faith_at_Large |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 11:33:01
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us
run with patience the race that is set before us,
This passage immediately follows the famous Hall of Faith discourse in Chapter 11. These are our witnesses. And they are all around us.
James 5:16 16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Who is more righteous than those who have made it to Heaven? Or do you doubt the Blessed Mother's salvation?
Luke 1:43 43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Was this some other "Lord"? Or was it Jesus? Mary IS the mother of Jesus, Our Lord.
Revelation 5:7-9 7And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
This is called intercession. And the elders carried with them the prayers of the saints. Do you think that Jesus just stores the prayers said to Him with the saints in Heaven?
Revelation 8:3-5 3And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
More intercession, this time with the angels - and they respond - don't let the Apocalyptic language fool you. This is not a terrible event. |
| Theophilus |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 11:23:43
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-intercession-of-the-saints:
Fundamentalists often challenge the Catholic practice of asking saints and angels to pray on our behalf. But the Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.
Thus, in Psalm 103 we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20–21). And in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!"
Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.
Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3–4).
Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10).
Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16). |
| God4me |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 10:43:13
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
g4, how does asking a devout Christian to pray for us mean that we aren't Christians? Is it because you think she's dead? If you know the Bible, then you should know that God is the God of the living, not the dead.
Or does calling her 'Mother of God" make us non-Christian? Are you denying that her son Jesus is God?
SCRIPTURES PLEASE, About Mary or the departed saints praying for us.
At least Mary was a Christian, and catholics aren't. |
| acumenCry |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 08:13:27
g4, how does asking a devout Christian to pray for us mean that we aren't Christians? Is it because you think she's dead? If you know the Bible, then you should know that God is the God of the living, not the dead.
Or does calling her 'Mother of God" make us non-Christian? Are you denying that her son Jesus is God? |
| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 08:00:27
quote:
...catholics aren't Christians, What makes you think ther are??, They are just a devil inspirerd man made false religion.
You continue to make an arse of yourself.
And to multiple your sin.
Sending prayer to the Holy Spirit for your intercession. Praying that He does all that is neccessary for your conversion of heart, mind and soul.
|
| God4me |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 07:39:39
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Stop telling lies, YOU NAUGHTY WOMAN, It's a good job you are already going to hell.
A person filled with the Holy Spirit would not relate to other Christians in this way.
Your interaction with people in this manner is a sin.
We're all praying for your repentance.
Hail, Full of Grace, Blessed are you amoung women and Blessed in the Fruit of your womb.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us, sinners. Now and at the hour of our deaths. Amen
catholics aren't Christians, What makes you think ther are??, They are just a devil inspirerd man made false religion.
As this proves,
[Quote]
"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us, sinners. Now and at the hour of our deaths"
[End quote]
Scriptures please, If you can't give scriptures, It proves you are a false religions, RIGHT??.
The TRUE Church will give scriptures to back up what they say..RIGHT? |
| God4me |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 07:36:27
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Stop telling lies, YOU NAUGHTY WOMAN, It's a good job you are already going to hell.
A person filled with the Holy Spirit would not relate to other Christians in this way.
Your interaction with people in this manner is a sin.
We're all praying for your repentance.
Hail, Full of Grace, Blessed are you amoung women and Blessed in the Fruit of your womb.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us, sinners. Now and at the hour of our deaths. Amen
catholics aren't Christians, What makes you think ther are??, They are just a devil inspirerd man made false religion.
As this proves,
[Quote]
"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us, sinners. Now and at the hour of our deaths"
[End quote]
Scriptures please, If you can't give scriptures, It proves you are a false religions, RIGHT??.
The TRUE Church will give scriptures to back up what they say..RIGHT? |
| bwellmysoul |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 06:33:27
quote:
Stop telling lies, YOU NAUGHTY WOMAN, It's a good job you are already going to hell.
A person filled with the Holy Spirit would not relate to other Christians in this way.
Your interaction with people in this manner is a sin.
We're all praying for your repentance.
Hail, Full of Grace, Blessed are you amoung women and Blessed in the Fruit of your womb.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us, sinners. Now and at the hour of our deaths. Amen
|
| God4me |
Posted - 04/27/2012 : 00:49:43
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
The "shall" in that Luke 1:31 is future tense, not present tense.
Stop telling lies, YOU NAUGHTY WOMAN, It's a good job you are already going to hell.
READ THIS AGAIN.
The original Greek meaning for, "Shall" As in Lk 1: 31, Is.
"About to come, About to have".
Which if you put it in it's right context, You'll see that's why Mary said, "How can it be, I know not a man".
[Haven't had sexual relations with a man yet].
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