Annullment
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New Member
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Member since 02/16/2004
Location: USA
What are your thoughts on this?
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Fifth Member
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Member since 06/03/2003
Welcome Deo! Years ago our 2 best friends got married after dating 8 years. Both cradle Catholics, the two seemed made for each other. My husband (fiance at the time) and I were part of the wedding party and proudly stood up for them. The woman's dad is a deacon and both he and the parish priest married our friends. Not 10 months later they seperated. The husband decided he needed to find another woman--this marriage wasn't for him. There was no talking him out of it, and he refused to go to counseling. It was very painful for everyone. To make a long story short, the two divorced and got an annullment so that they were both free to re-marry. Now the Church says that this marriage never happened. BALONEY SAUSAGE! I was there and it DID happen and it WAS a holy sacrament. The husband was an immature jerk--but he WAS a true Catholic husband nonetheless.
I hate divorce, and I hate annullment too. My friend's father, the Deacon, helped get the annullment process going. I know his daughter is happily remarried now with two beautiful children, but the annulment still doesn't wash with me.
A few months after our friends married, I stood in the same spot and married my husband. I know that no annullment can ever deny the truth of that holy ceremony 15 years ago.
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This has been a personal issue for me. I am a cradle catholic from pre-dominantly Catholic country. I got married when I just turned 19 to someone who I barely knew. He came to my country and after 17 days later we got married. We were poor and my parents wanted me to have a better life. I am happily married now with two beautiful good catholic children. It has been 27 years since I got divorced. I was taking communion since in my heart and soul it was invalid but had stopped since I found out I coudln't. Now I'm battling whether I should go through tribunal process to make in invalid.
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Member since 05/10/2002
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This is a difficult subject and there are a lof of variables to this issue. Since we are all laymen here and some of us are non-Catholics, and also we don't know all your circumstances, it is best we recommend you to some good resources. Catholic Answers do a great job in their Q&A forums when people call in and ask about this.
I am in the position where I must get a declaration of nullity in order to re-marry. If I was currently re-married, I would not be able to receive communion until I had the first one declared null. So, Deo Gratias - you do the right thing. This is a way for the Church to protect it's members and safequard the sanctity and the sacrament of marriage. While it is possible that some are being granted anullments that shouldn't get them, I think the real problem is that people are not being properly catechized in the sacrament of marriage - so many, many marriages lack the sacramental graces necessary for a marriage. They are legal contractual marriages, but they are not sacramental.
To me it is a healing process. And it may be that I will never re-marry. God's will be done.
Deo Gratias, are you currently in the anullment process? Have you spoken with your priest about this?
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Fifth Member
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Member since 06/03/2003
Allen, I think you (or maybe it was Lynne) once posted some very good material on annullment and the requirments one would have to meet to get one. I think my friend did not "qualify" under those parameters to have an annullment issued.
I know not all situations are the same. I also know how much taking communion would mean to you. I don't think for a minute that my friend has the same desire to re-instate his communion. He has since moved to a different city with his new wife, and they now have two children. I saw him over the holidays and he hasn't changed. (BUT, who knows how God is working in his life, or how God can someday use this man for His glory?)
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Fifth Member
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Member since 09/04/2003
Location: USA
Welcome to our group Deo Gratias 
My husband and I are both in the process of reconciling to the Holy Church. Since we were both married before, we had to go through the annulment process.
I was non-Catholic and I entered into a marriage with a baptized Catholic before a Protestant minister. My former husband was bound to observe the canonical form of marriage in accordance with cc. 1108.1; 1117; 1127.1 of the 1983 Code of Canon law. Since the union was never convalidated in accordance with the ecclesiastical law, my marriage was invalid because of the total lack of canonical form.
This may be your case if your former spouse was non-Catholic and you did not marry in the Catholic Church.
My current husband is still in the process of having his first marriage annuled. His is taking a little longer, because his former spouse wasn't Catholic and neither was he. He had to fill out an extensive questionnaire. Some of the questions dealt with my husband's religious upbrining, the marriage status of his parents, his feelins about his parents, his feelings about what he thought a marriage was all about, the length of his courtship, what his prior dating habits were, did he have any reservations about getting married, did he feel pressured to get married, etc.
I don't believe people realize how extensive the annulment process is. The process usually takes a minimum of 8 months, although it could be longer.
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Fifth Member
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Member since 09/04/2003
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Valid marriage requires EFFECTIVE consent ceremonially exchanged. At times consent may have been INEFFECTIVE. The following twenty reasons render consent INEFFECTIVE and are recognized as grounds for sacramental nullity which if capable of being proven by credible and available testimony make it possible to declare a marriage null and void. One or more of these reasons must be used in annulment cases that allege the ineffectiveness of marital consent. Likewise, there must be witnesses available who are fully knowledgeable of these facts and are willing to answer a written questionnaire.
1. Insufficient Use of Reason [1095,1(] You or your spouse did not know what was happening during the marriage ceremony because of insanity, mental illness, or a lack of consciousness.
2. Grave Lack of Discretionary Judgment Concerning Essential Marital Rights and Duties [1095,2(] You or your spouse was affected by some serious circumstances or factors that made you unable to judge or evaluate either the decision to marry or the ability to create a true marital relationship.
3. Psychic-Natured Incapacity to Assume Marital Obligations [1095,3(] You or your spouse, at the time of consent, was unable to fulfill the obligations of marriage because of a serious psychological disorder or other condition.
4. Ignorance about the Nature of Marriage [1096 §1] You or your spouse did not know that marriage is a permanent relationship between a man and a woman ordered toward the procreation of offspring by means of some sexual cooperation.
5. Error of Person [1097 §1] You or your spouse intended to marry a specific individual who was not the individual with whom marriage was celebrated. (Except for mail-order brides, does not occur in the United States.)
6. Error about a Quality of Person [10967 §2] You or your spouse intended to marry someone who either possessed or did not possess a certain quality; e.g., social status, marital status, education, religious conviction, freedom from disease, or arrest record. That quality must have been directly and principally intended.
7. Fraud [1098] You or your spouse was intentionally deceived about the presence or absence of a quality in the other. The reason for the deception was to obtain marital consent.
8. Error regarding Marital Unity that Determined the Will [1099] You or your spouse married believing that marriage was not necessarily an exclusive relationship.
9. Error regarding Marital Indissolubility that Determined the Will [1099] You or your spouse married believing that the State had the power to dissolve marriage and that remarriage was acceptable after civil divorce.
10. Error regarding Marital Sacramental Dignity that Determined the Will [1099] You and your spouse married believing that marriage is not a religious or sacred relationship but merely a civil contract or arrangement.
11. Total Willful Exclusion of Marriage [1101 §2] You or your spouse did not intend to contract marriage as marriage is understood by the law of the Church. Rather, the ceremony was observed solely as a means of obtaining something other than marriage itself; e.g., to obtain legal status in the country or to legitimize a child.
12. Willful Exclusion of Children [1101 §2] You or your spouse married intending, either explicitly or implicitly, to deny the other's right to sexual acts open to procreation.
13. Willful Exclusion of Marital Fidelity [1101 §2] You or your spouse married intending, either explicitly or implicitly, not to remain faithful.
14. Willful Exclusion of Marital Permanence [1101 §2] You or your spouse married intending, either explicitly or implicitly, not to create a permanent relationship, retaining an option to divorce.
15. Future Condition [1102 §1] You or your spouse attached a future condition to your decision to marry; e.g., you will complete your education, your income will be at a certainly level, you will remain in this area.
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Member since 05/10/2002
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quote:
Originally posted by neweyes
I know not all situations are the same. I also know how much taking communion would mean to you. I don't think for a minute that my friend has the same desire to re-instate his communion. He has since moved to a different city with his new wife, and they now have two children. I saw him over the holidays and he hasn't changed. (BUT, who knows how God is working in his life, or how God can someday use this man for His glory?)
Amy,
I was answering two people at the same time so some of my comments were not directed to your post. But you did state very strongly that you 'hate anullments' - as if they are the same as divorce. What you witnessed is apparantly an abuse, or it is possible that your perception is off of what happened. Considering how different Catholic thought is, I have to consider strongly the possibility that you don't have a full understanding of what an anullment is. I'm just trying to be objective. Catholics who are hypocritical or simply 'use the system' give a very warped impression and do great harm to the Church. We have a gal in our RCIA who is struggling with Catholicism - she has a lot of bad impressions about how Catholics sweep things under the rug by sinning and confessing, and divorcing and anulling. So, we are trying to remove the stumbling blocks of misunderstanding.
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Fifth Member
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Member since 06/03/2003
Thanks, Allen. I certainly know about stumbling blocks. This forum has helped remove several of them. As for the others, I'm working on it.
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Member since 02/16/2004
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by alcovey
Deo Gratias, are you currently in the anullment process? Have you spoken with your priest about this?
I started the process while I was living in Phoenix. I went though obstacles like witnesses. We just recently moved to Colorado. I called the Archdiocese of Denver and was told I need to contact our local parish for forms. I just called our church office to talk to our priest.
Lanie
[Miserere mei Deus; secundum magnam miseriocordiam Tuam]
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Lanie,
My hat's off to you for persevering in this process - I know it's hard to dredge up old memories and deal with past baggage. But I think it will be well worth it. To me, it's a lot like getting the benefit of Purgatory early! It's such a purging process, and when the Church declares it null, there will be a sense of healing and absolution. In my Evangelical experience, I could never get any closure - I was just supposed to go on - forgive and forget.
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Member since 05/11/2002
I think there needs to be a bit of clarification about the difference between a Decree of Nullity and a divorce.
In a divorce, which is a dissolution of a marriage, the understanding is that the marriage was valid, but now, under applicable laws, one or both of the spouses seeks to end the marriage. If one sees marriage as a covenant or contract, the idea is that the contract can be voided at any time by one of the parties to it, for whatever reasons are acceptable according to state law or the rules of the parties' religious denomination.
In a Decree of Nullity, we are not dealing with a dissolution of marriage, but a finding that a valid marriage did not exist. If one sees marriage as a covenant or contract, in this case the contract was not binding, because one or both parties entered it under false pretenses, entered it under duress, or were incapable of making a true commitment according to the rules of the covenant/contract.
Very different. One dissolves a valid covenant, the other recognizes that a valid covenant did not exist.
In this sense, I don't hate annullment, I like it. It can help serve to preserve the sanctity of marriage by helping those who entered into marriage in a way that was invalid to be released from an obligation they never had, and be able to enter into a covenant according to the means that God, through His Church, intended.
The challenge is that divorced couples may face is the realization that the time spent together did not truly constitute a sacramental marriage. This is painful for them, to be sure, but it can be a source of comfort for them, in that they can move on without the worry of remarrying outside the Church and depriving themselves of the Sacraments.
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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Member since 01/30/2004
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I think that even the marriage was real or not, one ought to bear this as JESUS beared HIMSELF a cross for the burden of sin of the world.
For we are not all born nor end up in the best of situations. One must have the Patience and Faithful endurance of the Saint's when going through these tests, trials, and tribulations.
I am not sure what the whole process is, but perhaps it takes both to end a marriage, yet I am not sure.
Perhaps one ought to give up all they got to be with the person who thinks there should be anullment or divorce.
I can say that one should be with the person no matter what. Just bear the burden. You shine like a gemstone compared to those whom denounce burden, as the life they live now is more important than life eternal and Heaven above and GOD's Kingdom on earth.
Edited by Stephen Guinnane on 02/23/2004 13:17:46
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Member since 02/24/2004
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I've always had reservations about annulment, interestingly enough not while pertaining to others, but that's for me to cope with. I understand the exceptive clauses due to the verses in Matthew.
I am a devout Catholic who married someone who had a marriage annuled, in my wifes case for reasons outlined in 7 and 12 which were intentional on her ex husbands part. In my mind I understand that he intentionally decieved my wife, the church and God concerning the marrige sacrement within God's sight. (Not to mention the mental abuse)
However in my heart I have always considered an oath before God to be sacred and binding. Verses in Luke prohibit divorce absolutely. Other verses (I'm being lazy atm and not actually looking them up, so forgive me) tell a spouce (exclusively directed passages to men and then to women) telling us to stay with our spouces in the hopes that with your goodness with regard to the law and upholding Gods word, that our spouces will be changed in heart from our example.
I still struggle with this daily due to the fact that my wife was previuosly married in regard to verses where Christ said that by marrying someone who is devorced I would be committing adultery. Again, all personal demons, not pertaining to your case.
As I said, I don't have a problem with annulment in others cases because I believe the church is obviously much better at understanding the theological implications behind the Matthew verses, I'm just a layman.
Lanie,
With all that said, and knowing your some of your situation, I'm pretty sure you fall under both the 1st and 2nd articles listed above. Obviously the Tribunal is going to have a much better theological base to discuss your case.
Knowing what you've told me (gee guess who this is  ) I don't see any reason that an annulment isn't appropriate in your case. Personally I don't think your understanding in your heart of the consecration with regard to the obligation and oath of marriage was truly what God is looking for, it was an act of self preservation, not at all the same thing.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to this afternoon. I'm still having trouble with the older one /chuckle but I'll probably see you at 3:30 ish
Oh, and thanks for the e-mail, very insightful. And leading me to this forum.
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