problem with "call no man father" argument
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was just pondering some of the anti catholic statements made here lately,, and one of them was following the old "call no man father" argument..
what i was wondering is what these people do with this other statement of jesus'.
Luk 14:26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
according to the loose logic presented by the anti catholic group, anyone who actually loved their father, let alone mother wife and kids, is not able to be a real christian (and therefore must be antichrist). though i have a feeling that they tend to overlook this verse because of it's difficulty. remember God is not tolerant and we have this from the very lips of jesus..
not only do you call no man father, but you also have to hate your very own.
mike
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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good observation mikejuli! Also, Paul calls himself 'our father' in Christ (1 Cor 4:15)...was he speaking evil?
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Oh, precious and HOLY FATHER GOD,
Have mercy on ROMAN catholics! Convict them of their Dire NEED for the TRUE JESUS, not the Cheap, Imitation, FALSE ROMAN "ANTI" 'jesus' --- who is none other than the son of the ONLY queen of heaven in the BIBLE --- the MOTHER of BAAL in Jer. 7:18 and 44:17-25!
Precious and Awesome Holy FATHER, convict them of their need to "COME OUT of HER, MY people, that you may NOT receive of HER plagues." Let them see that ROME has given "Christian Names" to all of BABYLON's gODS, making BAAL's mother, the Queen of Heaven/Mother of God, the supposed mother of YOUR Precious and Awesome SON, JESUS!
Let them know how much YOU HATE ROME's WorthLESS TRADITIONs and Deceptive "Unanimous Consent of the Fathers", along with their CORRUPT "Bible!"
In YOUR Service,
Phineas
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Our Father, Who ART in Heaven,
Hallowed be THY Name.
THY Kingdom come,
THY WILL BE DONE...
On EARTH as it IS in HEAVEN!
Give US THIS DAY our 'DAILY BREAD'
and FORGIVE US our Trespasses
as WE forgive THOSE
WHO Trespass AGAINST US!
And LEAD US NOT into TEMPTATION
BUT deliver us from EVIL.
AMEN!
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quote:
Oh, precious and HOLY FATHER GOD,
Have mercy on ROMAN catholics! Convict them of their Dire NEED for the TRUE JESUS, not the Cheap, Imitation, FALSE ROMAN "ANTI" 'jesus' --- who is none other than the son of the ONLY queen of heaven in the BIBLE --- the MOTHER of BAAL in Jer. 7:18 and 44:17-25!
Precious and Awesome Holy FATHER, convict them of their need to "COME OUT of HER, MY people, that you may NOT receive of HER plagues." Let them see that ROME has given "Christian Names" to all of BABYLON's gODS, making BAAL's mother, the Queen of Heaven/Mother of God, the supposed mother of YOUR Precious and Awesome SON, JESUS!
Let them know how much YOU HATE ROME's WorthLESS TRADITIONs and Deceptive "Unanimous Consent of the Fathers", along with their CORRUPT "Bible!"
In YOUR Service,
Oh,,,, what a pharisitical prayer….. Reminds me of Luke 18. Man…… you are calling Jesus’s Baal?.. His Blessed Mother is now the mother of Baal?…. Our CORRUPT Bible is the one that your are using. Think about it….. ….. What hateful diatribe disguised as prayer. Boy,,, such hate towards Jesus’ mother. I’m sure He is pleased with you calling His mother the mother of Baal.
I'm just curious. How many of you nice people here used to be like Phineas and were "convicted" and converted to CC?
We must never glance at what is good in ourselves, much less ponder over it, but we should search out what is wrong and what is lacking. This is an excellent way of remaining humble.
--St. Vincent de Paul
Ad Jesum Per Mariam
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just as i thought.. when these guys cannot respond they resort to manipulation and name calling. one of the worst forms of manipulation is manipulation through prayer,, not only is it an abuse of our communication with god, but as you can see phin here cleary puts words right in the mouth of God.
mike
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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Originally posted by at1ment
Oh,,,, what a pharisitical prayer….. Reminds me of Luke 18. Man…… you are calling Jesus’s Baal?.. His Blessed Mother is now the mother of Baal?…. Our CORRUPT Bible is the one that your are using. Think about it….. ….. What hateful diatribe disguised as prayer. Boy,,, such hate towards Jesus’ mother. I’m sure He is pleased with you calling His mother the mother of Baal.
Yes, it's ironic. Those that fancy themselves to be like Jesus and the Catholics to be the pharisees, but how surprised they will be to discover that it is they who are the modern-day pharisees, and not most Catholics.
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I'm just curious. How many of you nice people here used to be like Phineas and were "convicted" and converted to CC?
Nope. He's on his own there. I may have had strong objections to Catholicism, but never to that degree. In fact, his irrational rants cause me serious concern for his mental health. - No joking intended.
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Originally posted by mikejuli
just as i thought.. when these guys cannot respond they resort to manipulation and name calling. one of the worst forms of manipulation is manipulation through prayer,, not only is it an abuse of our communication with god, but as you can see phin here cleary puts words right in the mouth of God.
and by doing this prayer ... saying 'I'll pray for you' that you 'come out of her', they put themselves as supreme over everyone else.
In my study of Romans (as it has continued since Fall and we're wrapping it up next week), Scott Hahn and crew speak eloquently of this type of behavior when one feels a superiority over another in their walk with the Lord ...
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That is, we make it clear to others and to the world that we are more powerful, more patient, greater, kinder, etc. than someone else, not really for their sake, but so as to establish our superiority over another and triumph over them by such pious-looking means. We are, in such cases, fishing for someone to exclaim, "What a good and patient person or very smart! See how much better he is than that lousy guy over there!" We see such behavior everyday and we all know what it is like to be the victim of someone else’s ostentatious and self-serving "kindness". Indeed, Christians are not immune from this by any stretch, and many of us have seen other believers who use the words "I will pray for you" as another way of saying, "You lousy deluded fool! You just don't get it like I do ... I’m so glad I am vastly superior to you in my holiness and goodness."
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Originally posted by at1ment
Oh,,,, what a pharisitical prayer….. Reminds me of Luke 18. Man…… you are calling Jesus’s Baal?..//////
His Blessed Mother is now the mother of Baal?…. Our CORRUPT Bible is the one that your are using. Think about it….. ….. What hateful diatribe disguised as prayer. Boy,,, such hate towards Jesus’ mother. I’m sure He is pleased with you calling His mother the mother of Baal.
I'm just curious. How many of you nice people here used to be like Phineas and were "convicted" and converted to CC?
There is ONLY ONE queen of heaven in the whole Bible!!! And that queen of heaven IS the MOTHER of BAAL!!!
SO, dear Queen of Heaven worshippers --- IF ROMAN catholicism is really a biblical religion, it MUST be a WOLF in Sheep's skin ----- BAAL Worship given "CHRISTIAN NAMES"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ////////////////////
Phineas
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There is ONLY ONE queen of heaven in the whole Bible!!! And that queen of heaven IS the MOTHER of BAAL!!!
"The Phoenician goddess of fertility and reproduction and the principal deity of the port city of Sidon. As Astarte she was worshipped as far west as Carthage, Sicily, Sardinia and Cyprus. She was also the sister and co-consort of Baal, sharing this role with their sister Anath. Astarte is also known as Istar in Akkadian and Athtar in Sabaean.You really need to study a bit
Bzzzt, no she wasn't, she was his consort, as in lover. Pretty good bet Mary wasn't Jesus' lover.
Follow Jesus Phin, Cross the Tiber. Christ is waiting.
Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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Oh, my Jesus, forgive us our sins... save us from the fires of Hell... lead all souls to Heaven... especially those in most need of Thy mercy. AMEN.
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Originally posted by Diana Holberg
Oh, my Jesus, forgive us our sins... save us from the fires of Hell... lead all souls to Heaven... especially those in most need of Thy mercy. AMEN.
AMEN
Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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quote:
Originally posted by Phineas
There is ONLY ONE queen of heaven in the whole Bible!!! And that queen of heaven IS the MOTHER of BAAL!!!
SO, dear Queen of Heaven worshippers --- IF ROMAN catholicism is really a biblical religion, it MUST be a WOLF in Sheep's skin ----- BAAL Worship given "CHRISTIAN NAMES"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ////////////////////
Phineas
yes phin again this card has been played here and found wanting. you take it only as far as you need it but people like evan have at least tried to be consistent.. the pagan\/christianity connection is a farse and after a careful study of the actual myths that make this argument you find it is just a bunch of crap.
as catholics we are not talking about astarte (who is not the mother of baal) nor are we talking about baal, (which means lord), nor are we talking about hannibal (son of the lord/baal) nor are we talking about baal dying and rising, (even though it is about fertility and not salvation) etc etc etc.
the saddest thing around is the poor anti catholic trying to prove catholicism to be pagan, when if you are going to play that game all of christianity must be painted as a copy cat myth.. again just ask evan. it's a bogus argument, but even bogus arguments need consistency when argued.
mike
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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I'd like to take a poll for all those who read and don't post...
How many of you chose to follow Phin's form of religion, because of course we Catholics are losers, as Phin numerously has pointed out! We're lost, and in need of HIS salvation! How many of you are running away as quickly as you can from the Catholic Church (or your own church) to join the form of religion that Phin teaches, for according to HIM, he has the Truth?! Just curious! 
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Originally posted by mikejuli
. . . but even bogus arguments need consistency when argued.
Yes, at least get your pagan deities straight if you are going to hurl blind accusations.
But then people who are looking for conspiracies don't necessarily need the details, it's the overal effect they are after.
Ralph Woodrow was one such fellow. A fundamentalist, he wrote the book 'Babylon Mystery Religion' based on Hislop's infamous and fallacy-ridden 'The Two Babylons' .
He has since recanted and repented of writing that book. (see Babylon Connection?)
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The Two Babylons: A Case Study in Poor Research Methodology By Ralph Woodrow
As a young evangelist, I began to preach on the mixture of paganism with Christianity, and eventually I wrote a book based on Hislop, titled Babylon Mystery Religion (Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Assn., 1966). In time, my book became quite popular, went through many printings, and was translated into Korean, German, Spanish, Portuguese, and several other languages. Hundreds quoted from it. Some regarded me as an authority on the subject of "pagan mixture." Evan the noted Roman Catholic writer Karl Keating said, "Its best-known proponent is Ralph Woodrow, author of Babylon Mystery Religion". 1
Many preferred my book over The Two Babylons because it was easier to read and understand. . . . As time went on, however, I began to hear rumblings that Hislop was not a reliable historian, I heard this from a history teacher and in letters from people who heard this perspective expressed on the Bible Answer Man radio program. Even the Worldwide Church of God began to take a second look at the subject. As a result, I realized I needed to go back through Hislop’s work, my basic source, and prayerfully check it out.
As I did this, it became clear: Hislop’s "history" was often only an arbitrary piecing together of ancient myths. He claimed Nimrod was a big, ugly, deformed black man. His wife, Semiramis, was a beautiful white woman with blond hair and blue eyes. But she was a backslider known for her immoral lifestyle, the inventor of soprano singing and the originator of priestly celibacy. He said that the Babylonians baptized in water, believing it had virtue because Nimrod and Semiramis suffered for them in water; that Noah’s son Shem killed Nimrod; that Semiramis was killed when one of her sons cut off her head, and so on. I realized that no recognized history book substantiated these and many other claims.
[...]
While seeking to condemn the paganism of Roman Catholicism, Hislop produced his own myths. By so doing, he theorized that Nimrod, Adonis, Apollo, Attes, Ball-zebub, Bacchus, Cupid, Dagon, Hercules, Januis, Linus, Lucifer, Mars, Merodach, Thithra, Molock, Narcissus, Oannes, Oden, Orion, Osiris, Pluto, Saturn, Teitan, Typhon, Vulcan, Wodan, and Zoraster were all one and the same. By mixing myths, Hislop supposed that Semiramis was the wife of Nimrod and was the same as Aphrodite, Artemis, Astarte, Aurora, Bellona, Ceres, Diana, Easter, Irene, Iris, Juno, Mylitta, Proserpine, Rhea, Venus, and Vesta.
Take enough names, enough stories, and enough centuries; translate from one language to another; and a careless writer of the future might pass on all kinds of misinformation, Gerald Ford, and American president, might be confused with Henry Ford, the car manufacturer. Abraham Lincoln might end up as the inventor of the automobile, the proof being that many cars had the name "Lincoln". The maiden name of Billy Graham’s wife is Bell. She has
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The fact that a book like that was widely received in the first place is not surprising. People believe what they want and if it's in print, it's the truth. Now Woodrow is an anti-Catholic myth-buster, right?
"Look on the bright side, if this is the best they've got around here, in six months we'll be running this planet." (Planet of the Apes)
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