Latin Mass
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I was wondering if anyone went to a Latin mass? Do they even have them anymore? I was saddened when I learned they gave that up years ago.
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Member since 05/11/2002
There are two kinds. First is the Latin Novus Ordo, which is the "new Mass" done in Latin. My wife, daughter and I attended that Mass even this morning.
There is another Mass, called variously the Traditional Latin Mass or Tridentine Rite. It is the most recent approved Latin Liturgy from before the N.O. Mass. It uses the 1962 Missal. It can only be performed licitly if a local bishop gives an indult to the parish or priest seeking to pray that Mass. Here is a website with approved Tridentine Rite Parishes. There is hope that Pope Benedict XVI will issue a univeral indult, allowing it to be said anywhere by any priest who has the desire and training to do so.
Beyond this, there are two well-known schismatic sects, the Society of Saint Pius V and the Society of Saint Pius X, who perform the Tridentine Rite mass illicitly. Both sects are ultra-traditionalists, and are not in full communion with the Catholic Church.
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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That doesn't seem right to me. Why would they not allow a priest to perform this? Benedict is fond of languages - perhaps he'll encourage more Latin to be used?
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Any priest can say the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin, without an indult, in any parish. In fact, according to the original Vatican II documents, Latin is the normative language for the Novus Ordo Mass. A universal indult was given, however, for the Mass to be said in local languages, and this is what has happened by and large.
The issue is uniformity of liturgy. The Church has not wanted different liturgies in different parishes or locales with different rubrics, different expectations of lay resposes to prayers, and so forth. The Novus Ordo is different in may ways from the TLM, and a layperson could get very confused if the "universal" church didn't have a "universal" liturgy.
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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Ah, I see. Thanks Theophilus for the information.
BTW - is there anything online where I can see the mass transcripts or if not maybe one being performed? Any good resources on this at all? Thanks again.
Chris
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"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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Member since 03/14/2006
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Anybody who likes the Mass said in Latin and who wishes that the Mass would go back to being said in Latin is totally out of their mind.
Edited by Robert Mazar on 06/06/2006 04:48:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Mazar
Anybody who likes the Mass said in Latin and who wishes that the Mass would go back to being said in Latin is totally out of their mind.
why? other than aesthetics, i can think of many other fruitful benefits to having latin in mass. one being exposure to a different language which would hopefully grow to a better understanding of several laguages.
mike
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Member since 11/08/2003
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Chris,
EWTN broadcasts a daily Mass which is Novus Ordo, and frequently they conduct most of it in Latin. If I had to guess, I'd say they use Latin about 85% of the time.
EWTN has also increasingly been broadcasting Masses from Rome, which are usually Novus Ordo and conducted almost entirely in Latin (though the readings from Scripture are often read in various languages). But to see these live, you have to get up in the wee hours of the morning -- they usually start at 4am here. The most recent one was Sunday's Solemn Mass of Pentecost.
I have seen Pope Benedict as celebrant at one Traditional Latin Mass not long ago... it seems like it was mid-April or so... about the same time rumors began that he has already signed a universal indult.
Here is a link to their media page. If you want to catch their daily Mass, it is broadcast at 8am, 12pm, 4pm, and 12am Eastern time.
It looks like the next Mass to be broadcast from Rome will be the Solemnity of Corpus Christi on Thursday, June 15 at 1pm and 10pm.
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Oh, and there is one parish in my area with a local indult to conduct Mass using the Tridentine Rite. I attempted to go once, but arrived just as it was letting out -- it turns out that the web page was out of date. I've been meaning to go back, but first I need to purchase a veil...
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Mazar
Anybody who likes the Mass said in Latin and who wishes that the Mass would go back to being said in Latin is totally out of their mind.
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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Member since 09/04/2003
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I would love to go to a Tridentine Mass. It appears to be more reverent and more sacred.
I must admit that I am scandalized by some lack of reverence that I have witnessed in the Church.
In January, the kids and I went to Denver for my niece's funeral. We attended the Catholic Church down the street from where my parents live. After the services, Cody exclaimed, "That was the ugliest Catholic Church I have ever seen. If I didn't know any better I would have thought we were back in the Baptist Church." This wasn't a new Church it has been there for as long as I can remember (about the early 70's)
He was right. The Church was without stainglass, statues, altars, and I don't recall noticing the stations of the cross. The crucifix at the front of the Church was this strange looking wooden carving (kind of modern art looking) and was hanging from the ceiling by wire. That was about the only clue to it being a Catholic Church. When I was about to sit down, I didn't know if I should genuflect or not as I had no idea where the tabernacle was. I saw other people genuflect, so I did. It wasn't until later that I noticed the tabernacle was off to the side, almost hidden from view.
They had girl altar servers, I'm sorry but I don't agree with that. How is one to encourage young men to become a priest if they are not given a special function when they are younger? We don't allow women priests, we shouldn't allow women altar servers.
If that wasn't bad enough, everyone joined hands during the Our Father. I was afraid that everyone was going to break out in Kumbyeya.
In my own parish, it seems like the majority of people have a very flippant attitude when they go up to receive our precious Lord in the Eucharist. I no longer take the Host in my hand...it just doesn't seem right or respectful to do so.
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I hear you, Lu. Sounds like we are on the same page on those points. Thw way we worship affects the way we believe - it shapes our values. For those who live reverently, these things are a hindrance.
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Lubellmac,
That is an absolute fabrication that there was no altar in that Catholic Church in Denver, Colorado because every Catholic Church has to have an altar. You really are sick you know that with that opposition to girl altar servers. And you really are sick with having a problem receiving the bread in the hand. And don't you receive the wine also at Holy Communion? I receive both the bread and the wine at Holy Communion because in the Catholic Church that I attend and belong to both the bread and the wine are available for whoever wishes to receive both the bread and the wine. No Catholic man should become a Priest until they start allowing Priests to get married. And no Catholic women should become a Nun until they start allowing Nuns to get married. And until Priests and Nuns are allowed to get married nobody should encourage their sons and daughters to become Priests and Nuns.
Edited by Robert Mazar on 06/07/2006 06:45:09
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Member since 06/26/2002
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Mazar
Lubellmac,
That is an absolute fabrication that there was no altar in that Catholic Church in Denver, Colorado because every Catholic Church has to have an altar. You really are sick you know that with that opposition to girl altar servers. And you really are sick with having a problem receiving the bread in the hand. And don't you receive the wine also at Holy Communion? I receive both the bread and the wine at Holy Communion because in the Catholic Church that I attend and belong to both the bread and the wine are available for whoever wishes to receive both the bread and the wine. No Catholic man should become a Priest until they start allowing Priests to get married. And no Catholic women should become a Nun until they start allowing Nuns to get married. And until Priests and Nuns are allowed to get married nobody should encourage their sons and daughters to become Priests and Nuns.
why? i mean what would be the point of being a priest or a nun then? it's like that other modern mythology that you shouldn't get married until you had sex and lived together first.. if your already having sex and living together why bother with marriage? personally i like the diversity that catholicism offers rather than the dullness of having everyone be the same...
mike
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Member since 05/11/2002
I agree to a point, but I believe that it is possible to live reverently even in a Church that isn't as "churchy" as we like. On my alma mater's campus, there is a basilica, with gorgeous stained glass and frescoes, and there is a log chapel that was carved out of the wilderness by missionary priests. Both Churches, both wonderful places for prayer.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't like the newer "Church in the round" style of architecture, but I've seen a great deal of reverence even in these Churches, when the pastors led the flock appropriately, and the bishops insisted on reverent liturgy.
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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