Beware of the 'Christian' zionist cult!
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Grace Halsell, who regards the movement as [color=red]a cult[/color], asks: �What is the message of the Christian Zionist? Simply stated it is this: every act taken by Israel is orchestrated by God, and should be condoned, supported, and even praised by the rest of us.' (17)
Stephen Sizer, �Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?� (Leicester: 2004), Page 21.
The Middle East Council of Churches (MECC), drawing together the historic as well as evangelical churches of the Holy Land,[color=blue] rejects, Christian Zionism 'as representing a heretical interpretation of Holy Scriptures',(19) while John Stott has described it as 'biblical anathema'. (20)[/color]
Stephen Sizer, �Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?� (Leicester: 2004), Page 22.
[color=red]The distinction between Israel and the church and the literalist hermeneutic upon which it is based, inexorably leads to a reductionist eschatology in which Jesus is devalued, salvation and judgment redefined, and Israel sacralized.[/color]
Stephen Sizer, �Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?� (Leicester: 2004), Page 201.
He [Edward Irving (1792-1834)]insisted that missionary work especially in Southern Europe, where the Continental Society concentrated its ministry, was futile because God's judgment was about to fall on the lands of the former Roman Empire who would align themselves with the Antichrist. [color=red]Some walked out of the meeting in protest while the leaders of the society accused Irving of undermining their ministry.[/color] (52)
Stephen Sizer, �Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?� (Leicester: 2004), Page 42.
[Benjamin] Newton eventually came to recognize Darby's elevation of Israel above the church as [color=red]heresy[/color], [color=blue]and repudiated the idea that the Jews could be blessed apart from the faith in Jesus Christ. It was 'virtually to say there are two kinds of Christianity, two Gospels, two ways, and two ends of salvation'[/color].(96)
Stephen Sizer, Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon? (Leicester: 2004) p. 53.
There is a new religious cult in America. It's not composed of so-called �crazies� so much as mainstream, middle to upper-middle class Americans. They listen-and give millions of dollars each week-to the TV evangelists who expound the fundamentals of the cult. They read Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye. They have one goal: to facilitate God's hand to waft them up to heaven free from all trouble, from where they will watch Armageddon and the destruction of Planet Earth. This doctrine pervades Assemblies of God, Pentacostal, and other charismatic churches, as well as Southern Baptist, independent Baptist and countless so-called Bible churches and mega-churches. At least one out of every 10 Americans is a devotee' of this cult. It is the fastest growing religious movement in Christianity today. - Dale Crowley Jr., religious broadcaster, Washington D.C.
Grace Halsell, �Forcing God's Hand: Why Millions Pray For A Quick Rapture - - - And Destruction Of Planet Earth� (Beltsville: 2003) Page 5.
While Calvin and Luther understood the word �Israel� in Romans 11:25 to refer to the church of Jewish and Gentile believers, as had the Roman Catholic Church, Theodore Beza and Martin Bucer preferred to apply the word to unbelieving Jews and Judaism. The various editors of the Geneva Bible, influenced both by Calvin and Beza, increasingly favoured this interpretation. In the 1557 and 1560 editions, a short note on Romans 11 defined 'Israel' as the 'nation of the Jews'. In later editions, this was amplified to suggest a future conversion of the whole nation of the Jews, though not everyone particularly, shall be joined to the church of Christ.'(4) Through the notes accompanying this translation, which became the most widely read translation in England and Scotland prior to the Authorized Version of 1611, together with the writings of Puritans such as William
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Lord knows, I'm no fan of Zionism - and maybe most especially Christian Zionism, but the manner in which you present information is such that it drives away more people than it convinces.
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Ironic use of propaganda from someone condemning propaganda in another thread.
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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Yes, classic beam in eye syndrome. Those who presume to make it their ministry to correct others should first examine themselves very carefully. Would be reformers sometimes do more damage than the abuses they seek to correct.
"The reformer is always right about what is wrong. He is generally wrong about what is right."
-- G. K. Chesterton
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Caveat. . . . never listen to cult members. . . since the cult of catholics are zionists. . . .the cult of evangelicals are zionist. . ..etc. . . .
Walter Riggans interprets the term [Christian Zionist] in an overtly political sense as 'any Christian who supports the Zionist aim of the sovereign State of Israel, its army, government, education etc., but it can be describe a Christian who claims to support the State of Israel'. (7)
Edited by Shamgar on 05/22/2006 14:51:46
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Originally posted by Shamgar
Caveat. . . . never listen to cult members. . .
From what I can tell, you exhibit more cult-like thinking than most everyone.
Again, you presume to correct others of the thing you are most guilty of.
Look to yourself there, friend.
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since the cult of catholics are zionists. . . .
Most Catholics I know are not Zionist. That is predominantly an Evangelical thing.
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the cult of evangelicals are zionist. . ..etc. . . .
Define the word 'cult'. You are diminishing it's value by overusing the term. - save it for when it really applies.
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Walter Riggans interprets the term [Christian Zionist] in an overtly political sense as 'any Christian who supports the Zionist aim of the sovereign State of Israel, its army, government, education etc., but it can be describe a Christian who claims to support the State of Israel'. (7)
Like I said, I don't agree with it, and Catholics in general take a cautious view on it. After all, many of the Palestinians are Christians - something Evangelicals tend to overlook.
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What if I support Israel not for its religion, but because it is a pro-US government in the Middle East?
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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Or just a fine example of democracy in an area of the world that doesn't often have such an open form of government?
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Then it becomes a matter of politics rather than religion. Although the illegal actions and deception from the very foundation of the Zionist state are morally problematic in my opinion. There was never any intention of sharing power with the indigenous people, as was promised at first. And it's 'right to exist' is a totally religious argument being passed off as geopolitical. But, again, we get into some serious political issues here - as you know, I don't favor U.S. policies in the Mideast.
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Most of Israel's politics are more communist and socialist than democratic. I think it is a myth that they are pro U.S. - they look out for their own interests.
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Examples of communism?
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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Originally posted by alcovey
Most Catholics I know are not Zionist. That is predominantly an Evangelical thing.
Beware of cult members of the catholics church who support jews in Israel. . .aka. . . "christian" zionists. . . .you will problably have to explain it too them in small words since cult members are typically not very intelligent. . . . go figure. . .
Walter Riggans interprets the term [Christian Zionist] in an overtly political sense as 'any Christian who supports the Zionist aim of the sovereign State of Israel, its army, government, education etc., but it can be describe a Christian who claims to support the State of Israel'. (7)[/color]
Stephen Sizer, “Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon?” (Leicester: 2004), Page 21.
His propaganda [Joseph Goebbels] crusades were based on a simple observation: What the masses term truth is that information which is most familiar. As Goebbels put it:
'The rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine. Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious. In the long run only he will achieve basic results in influencing public opinion who is able to reduce problems to the simplest terms and who has the courage to keep forever repeating them in this simplified form despite the objections of the intellectuals.(5)'
Pratkanis, Anthony and Aronson, Elliot.“Age of Propaganda": The Everyday Use and Abuse of Persuasion” (New York: 2001) Page 182.
Edited by Shamgar on 05/22/2006 18:06:01
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Examples of communism?
Labor Zionism and Jewish Tradition
Jewish Socialism
One can move from Katznelson to Liesen, to Gordon, to Syrkin and to Ben Gurion, and easily perceive how much Judaism, how much Jewish religious feeling prevails in the world of these so-called non-religious theoreticians of Jewish socialism or Labor Zionism.
Golda Meir By Jeffery Kagen
Sheyna's house was always filled with the Jewish intellectuals who discussed every political and social event in light of the various political and social philosophies. Sitting quietly, Golda was in awe again of those assembled and their knowledge. . . . Her family was very active in the Jewish community, and during World War I, her house was a meeting place for young Jews and Zionists. She met many of the Zionist leaders of that time as they passed through Milwaukee: Nachman Syrkin, a fiery ideologist of the Socialist-Zionist cause, Shmaryahu Levine, one of the greatest of the Zionist speakers of the time, Yitzhak ben Zvi, who was destined to become the first President of Israel and David ben Gurion, who was at that time expelled from Palestine by the Turks. . . . She was teaching in the Labor Zionist Yiddish speaking school in Milwaukee.
Dear Islam: To kill Israel, leave it alone. (posted by Lazamataz)
Israel was founded by a party and by people enamoured by socialism. David Ben-Gurion's socialist leanings can be traced back to 1915, when he was expelled from the region now known as Israel for his socialist activities. He returned to New York City and was deeply involved with socialist and zionist movements in America, until he became increasingly involved in the creation of the Israeli state.
As early as 1905, in Minsk, the Poale Zion (Zionist Labor Party) was created by Ber Borochov. Its ideology was a synthesis between Jewish Nationalism and Marxism. He is best summed up in his own words: "Our ultimate aim is Socialism. Our immediate aim is Zionism. The class struggle is the means to achieve both aims."
In 1930, the two main workers' parties - Ahdut Ha'avoda and Hapoel Hatza'ir - merged to form Mapai, the Workers' Party in the Land of Israel. In a very short time, Mapai became the major player in Israeli and Zionist politics. Mapai was very socialist in its political orientation.
There are some scholars who dispute the fundamental socialist nature of Israel and its founding, most notably Zeev Sternhell, who wrote a book "The Founding Myths of Israel: Nationalism, Socialism, and the Making of the Jewish State", but even he cannot dispute the socialist nature of the founding of Israel; he can only minimize it while maximizing the zionist urges that are from which Israel was born.
But that Israel is a socialist-leaning state at present cannot be denied. Income tax ranges up to 50% on a mere $35,000US, and there is a staggering 17% Value Added Tax. Israel has 159 state-owned companies, including some of the largest in Israel, such as the Israel Chemicals company, the Electric Corporation, Israel Refineries, El Al airlines, and many others. These companies employ over five percent of the workforce -- and this does not include the Armed Forces.
These historical and modern facts lead me to the following premises and conclusions:
- Given that strongly-socialist economies do not work (Cf. USSR, economic crisis in the Netherlands, French economy foundering)
- And given that Israel would most likely not prosper without the massive cash infusions from America,
- And given that terroris
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Oh how the cult (catholic, baptist, evangelical) members try to squirm away from their anti-semitism. . . in the name of defeating Jewish-inspired Bolshevism
Arno C. Gaebelein took a trip to his native Germany in 1937. He described his impressions in a letter to William Bell Riley, who published it in the Pilot. Gaebelein condemned most American press reports about the “new Germany” as slanderous and erroneous. It was obvious to him that Hitler had been taking necessary steps to stop the spread of Jewish-inspired Bolshevism. There is no question in my mind that Hitler was an instrument of God to save Germany and Europe from the Red Beast.”(32)
Timothy P. Weber, “On the Road to Armageddon: How Evangelicals Became Israel's Best Friend” (Grand Rapids: 2004) Page 143.
While he [James M. Gray of Moody Bible Institute] never took back his claim that the Protocols [Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion] was “a clinching argument for premillennialism,” he suggested that the Bible alone contained everything the Christians needed to know about Jews and their end-time actvities. “Therefore, in the present state of the public mind on this question, my advice to Christians would be this: Let us confine ourselves to the Bible and leave the Protocols alone.”(43)
Timothy P. Weber, “On the Road to Armageddon: How Evangelicals Became Israel's Best Friend” (Grand Rapids: 2004) Page 138.
Another major dispensationalist figure who promoted the Protocols [Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion] in the 30s was William Bell Riley, the Baptist leader from Minnesota. He first came across the Protocols in the 1920s and rejected it as fanciful and far-fetched. But a few years later he read it again and was struck by how accurately it explained what was happening all over the world.(24) In 1934 Riley [William Bell Riley] published The Protocols and Communism, in which he argued that the same plot that had turned Russia communist was now at work in FDR's New Deal. “Today in our land many of the biggest trusts, banks, and manufacturing interests are controled by Jews . . . Most of our department stores they own. . . The motion pictures, the most vicious of all immoral, educational and communistic influences, is their creation.”(25) Vistors to Riley's First Baptist Church in Minneapolis got a steady dose of similar sentiments from the puplit, so much that Jewish leaders identified the church as one of the most important sources of anti-Semitism in the Twin Cities.(26)
Timothy P. Weber, “On the Road to Armageddon: How Evangelicals Became Israel's Best Friend” (Grand Rapids: 2004) Page 136.
Gaebelein [Arno C. Gaebelein] believed that Jews were still under a “national blood-guiltiness” for killing Christ, a stigma that could not be wiped away until the second coming and the Jews' repentance for it.(21) Even then, more Jews would be lost than saved. He held out the most hope for the Orthodox. During the great tribulation, after the church had been rpatured, “the orthodox Jews who have held on to the faithof their fathers, who pray for the coming of the Messiah King, whose eyes are [now] blinded that they cannot see, from the veil will be removed.” They are the prophesied remnant that international Jews, the political-financial schemers, the lawless elements, who ridicule and hate religion of any kind and are atheists . . . these Jews will worship the beast. They reject the true Christ and accept the false Messiah.”(22) They are doomed, and rightly so.(23)
Timothy P. Weber, “On the Road to Armageddon: How Evangelicals Became Israel's Best Friend” (Grand Rapids: 2004) Page 136.
Edited by Shamgar on 05/23/2006 06:34:09
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hahahhahaa it appears Shamgar has shut the mouth of the antisemites. . . .and the people who thought they weren't "christain" zionist but found out they actually were. . hahahahaha drones. . . . .
Therefore, anti-Zionism is not a politically legitimate point of view but rather an expression of bigotry and hatred.
Abraham H. Foxman, “Never Again?: The Threat of the New Anti-Semitism,“ (New York: 2003) Page 18.
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What a fool. Shamgar, you are a troll. Trying to bait anybody or everybody to respond - with almost enough information to be dangerous - but not quite..
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