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Jesus PETRA... Peter PETROS...not Kepha!

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Posted on 04/10/2008 at 23:28:37  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
Rocks And StonesQuestion: Please comment on the following argument which I read in a Catholic website. It can be summarized like this:1.Jesus spoke Aramaic. So, what Jesus said to Simon in Matthew 16:18 was this: ‘You are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my Church.’ more...
Edited by Sunny on 04/10/2008 23:58:49
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Posted on 04/12/2008 at 18:29:57  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
Sunny,

Nice try. How about this:

quote:
Possible Aramaic or Hebrew gospel of Matthew
There are numerous testimonies, starting from Papias and Irenaeus, that Matthew originally wrote in Hebrew letters, which is thought to refer to Aramaic. The sixteenth century Erasmus was the first to express doubts on the subject of an original Aramaic or Hebrew version of the Gospel of Matthew: "It does not seem probable to me that Matthew wrote in Hebrew, since no one testifies that he has seen any trace of such a volume." Here Erasmus distinguishes between a Gospel of Matthew in Hebrew letters and the partly lost Gospel of the Hebrews and Gospel of the Nazoraeans, from which patristic writers do quote, and which appear to have some relationship to Matthew, but are not identical to it. The Gospel of the Ebionites also has a close relationship to the Gospel of the Hebrews and Gospel of the Nazoraeans, and hence some connection to Matthew. The similarly named Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew has almost nothing to do with Matthew, however, and instead is a combination of two earlier infancy Gospels.

Most contemporary scholars, based on analysis of the Greek in the Gospel of Matthew and use of sources such as the Greek Gospel of Mark, conclude that the New Testament Book of Matthew was written originally in Greek and is not a translation from Hebrew or Aramaic (Greek primacy).[4] If they are correct, then the Church Fathers such as Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Jerome possibly referred to a document or documents distinct from the present Gospel of Matthew. A smaller number of scholars, including the Roman Catholic Pontifical Biblical Commission, believe the ancient writings that Matthew was originally in Aramaic, arguing for Aramaic primacy. These scholars normally consider the Pe****ta and Old Syriac versions of the New Testament closest to the original autographs.

Biblical scholar Stephen L. Harris of the Jesus Seminar mentions that the claims of Matthew Levi being the author could actually be references to "an early Christian, perhaps named Matthew, who assembled a list of messianic prophecies in the Hebrew Bible, a collection that the creator of our present gospel may have used."[14] The Jesus narrative would then have been assembled around these Tanakh (Old Testament) verses.

A Hebrew text of Matthew was published by the Spanish Jewish polemicist Ibn Shaprut in the 14th century. Although it has usually been considered to be his own translation, there are various signs pointing to the possibility that he was using a pre-existing text that may have been based on something older than our present Greek text. There is also a papyrus codex in Coptic containing Matthew from verse 5:38 to the end which also seems to contain hints of an older text. Some passages make more sense, such as the Jews saying to Jesus "Hoshanna in the house of David" ("Save, we pray, in the house of David") rather than "Hoshanna to the son of David" ("Save, we pray, to the son of David") in Matthew 21:9 and 21:15. [15]


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Matthew#Authorship

and

quote:
Papias (Eusebius, H.E. 3.39.16)
"Matthew collected the oracles (ta logia) in the Hebrew language, and each interpreted them as best he could."

Irenaeus, Adv. Haer. 3.1.1
"Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews n their own dialect while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome and laying the foundations of the church."

Origen (Eusebius, H.E. 6.25.4)
"As having learnt by tradition concerning the four Gospels, which alone are unquestionable in the Church of God under heaven, that first was written according to Matthew, who was once a tax col
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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Posted on 04/12/2008 at 18:46:26  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
quote:
Originally posted by Sunny


WRONG ALL THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS WRITTEN IN GREEK

http://www.ntgreek.org/answers/nt_written_in_greek.htm





having read the bible 8 million times i thought you might have picked up on some of these verses.. like

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

or how about

Mar 5:41 And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.

or how about someone called peter who is also called cephas which is aramaic too.

Jhn 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor

www.minmaxsunt.wordpress.com
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Posted on 02/24/2009 at 18:04:25  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
quote:
Originally posted by Sunny


WRONG ALL THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS WRITTEN IN GREEK

http://www.ntgreek.org/answers/nt_written_in_greek.htm






SUNNY! Have YOU read the link yourself??? It says that MOST of the NT is in Greek, NOT ALL!!!
I quote:

"Obviously these three gospels were written in Greek, as their audience was Greek-speaking, and only the gospel of Matthew is singled out as having been written in Hebrew!"

"The evidence all shows that Almighty God INSPIRED Mark, Luke, John, Paul, and the rest of the writers of the New Testament -- even including Peter and James -- of having written their gospels and epistles IN GREEK! Only Matthew's gospel was apparently written first in Hebrew or Aramaic"

Maybe you should read your own post before you put it up here... It will save you and others a lot of time!
Or maybe you meant eventually they were all written in Greek. I will give you the benefit of the doubt. If so, what's your point?



All for Jesus, all through Mary

Alex B.
All for Jesus, all through Mary

Alex B.
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Posted on 02/24/2009 at 21:34:19  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
Hi and welcome Alex. Sunny is long gone and was not open to honest dialogue anyway.
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Posted on 02/25/2009 at 04:39:21  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
Welcome, Alex...
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Posted on 02/25/2009 at 11:58:16  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
A big HOWDY!!! Alex

Sunny left because Catholic posters here confused her with facts.

Maybe you may want to instoduce yourself on the Welcome to Spero thread.

God Bless

We must never glance at what is good in ourselves, much less ponder over it, but we should search out what is wrong and what is lacking. This is an excellent way of remaining humble.
--St. Vincent de Paul
Ad Jesum Per Mariam
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Posted on 06/07/2012 at 11:57:43  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
If you want some really good, well-researched info on this Petros petra kepha stuff, go check out this website:

http://www.freetowne.com/pppk

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