Can a great faith Christian raise micheal Jackson

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Evangelist, you entered into the Covenant, but refuse to teach others that they must do the same.

We enter into the covenant by getting baptized. Baptism is the sign that we make to show that we accept Christ's Covenant.

If we refuse to get baptized, we reject the covenant. Jesus made it so simple even a baby can do it. So why complicate it by making it a momentary thing? This moment I believe in Jesus so I'm saved, that moment I am having a bad day so I'm mad or frustrated at Jesus and therefore am not saved? Or am I more saved the more I believe?

We choose Christ by making a commitment to Him. I was not commited to my husband until I actually married him. It was an important step. I loved him before and after, but getting married sealed the deal.

A Christian commits to Christ by taking that important step. He may believe before and after, but getting baptized is what seals us.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

But with or without the ring (and the ring is a modern addition to the ceremony), a couple must go through the marriage ceremony in order to be married. Otherwise they are not. Baptism, whether by submersion, sprinkling or pouring, is a ceremonial practice (for Catholics it is a sacrament) that unites us with Christ by baptizing us into Christ.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

But it comes from the Biblical context. On what basis do say that this is not so?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

But both Paul and the new Covenant in Christ are opposed to what you teach.

In order to enter into the New Covenant, we must be baptized. The Bible says that. In order to die to sin, we must be buried with Christ in Baptism, Paul teaches that in the scriptures.

How do you deny this when it is clearly written.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

I have twisted nothing.

Romans 6:2-6 "God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

How do we die to sin? Paul explained it to us.

How did you read that and come up with something else?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

But all of those passages apply to those outside the Church who refuse to enter in. That cannot possibly apply to the Catholic Church because then that would prove that Christ was a false prophet.

The Church cannot be snatched out Christ's hands. Imitations can be, but not the Catholic Church.

The Bible predicts that false teachers will seek to enter into the Church and will cause problems and will try to deceive even the elect.

I know that God will send strong delusion that wrong is right, that adultery is no longer an issue, that sin is nothing to worry about, that we no longer need to repent.

Since MY Church does not teach any of that nonsense, and I have not been so deluded in my thinking, then those passages do not apply to the Catholic Church, but do appear to apply perfectly to a few other groups.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

2 Thessalonians 2:7-12 "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

I know that Jack LIED, and yet you promote him and refuse to call him a liar. Did you not receive a love of the Truth? Why tolerate a liar, I wouldn't.

Wommack claims that we do not need to repent of our sins at all, and yet the message repeated throughout the New Testament is the call to repentance.

"Pleasure in unrighteousness" hardly refers to the works of the Catholic Church that you find so burdensome. Sin in unrighteousness, not avoiding sin, or repenting of sin, or confessing our sins.

Anyone who told me that I did not have to repent of my sins and that sin is not an issue - that person is under powerful delusion. How can wrong become right? And don't tell me that Jesus is just covering it up.

Romans 4:6-8 "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Rom 4:7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Rom 4:8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

Blessed are those indeed. But it is very wise to not stop there. If we want our sins forgiven, the Bible tells us to repent - Jesus forgives as often as asked, His mercy is great, but we still need to repent.

Good works do not justify us, but being justified enables us to do good and meritorious works. The examples given are Abraham and David, and while they were justified by their Faith, both as a result were able to do the works that they needed to do. Both did good works. David is famous for his repentence. Abraham did not withhold his only son.

Continued from the same epistle to the Romans:

Romans 6:14-17 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you."

Paul does get a little convoluted in his writings, but you have to read them through before jumping to conclusions.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by evangelist

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

But all of those passages apply to those outside the Church who refuse to enter in. That cannot possibly apply to the Catholic Church because then that would prove that Christ was a false prophet.

The Church cannot be snatched out Christ's hands. Imitations can be, but not the Catholic Church.

The Bible predicts that false teachers will seek to enter into the Church and will cause problems and will try to deceive even the elect.

I know that God will send strong delusion that wrong is right, that adultery is no longer an issue, that sin is nothing to worry about, that we no longer need to repent.

Since MY Church does not teach any of that nonsense, and I have not been so deluded in my thinking, then those passages do not apply to the Catholic Church, but do appear to apply perfectly to a few other groups.

---

Ro:8:1: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Ro:8:2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

I am not condemned because i am in Christ , but notice the scripture doesn't say you are condemned when you are not in the Catholic church!

If you believe the scriptures then every Christian believer who accepted Jesus is automatically a catholic if you want to use your interpretaion in making Jesus a church.

one love

---