The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to
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Part 2 The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved!
Mike and many other RCC think if you are not baptized in water you are not saved.
Salvation can only come by water baptism think many religious people.
Not only the RCC but the church of Jesus Christ and mormons have this doctrine also.
Salvation is by faith and faith alone, Baptism is not a requirement!
John 6:28–29 John 3:15 we get salvation by believing!
Some unbelievers once asked the disciples: "What must I do to be saved?"
They replied: Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31).
Note again no mention of baptism. Just belief in the Lord Jesus.
If you what your household to be saved, just do like the jailer and his house and believe!!
Paul taught the gospel in 1 Cor. 15 without any water baptism!
1Co:15:1: Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
read the whole chapter of the gospel teaching of apostle Paul which we should stand abd teach to others!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/19/2009 13:58:35
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I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Just RCC and LDS, huh? I think you are mistaken.
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
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quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Just RCC and LDS, huh? I think you are mistaken.
I mention the Christ church also and some baptist churchy also!
But the people who are only religious like the religious jews society and others will fight for their dogmatic doctrines
!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Just RCC and LDS, huh? I think you are mistaken.
I mention the Christ church also and some baptist churchy also!
But the people who are only religious like the religious jews society and others will fight for their dogmatic doctrines
!
one love
Oh, ok  ... I just know that most Christians I have met believe in the necessity of baptism. God does not try to trick us into going to hell. If Baptism is a requirement for salvation, then Christ will provide his fold with the will and desire to do so. Personally, my baptism initiated (or jump started) my Journey to Christ and not vise-versa.
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
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quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Just RCC and LDS, huh? I think you are mistaken.
I mention the Christ church also and some baptist churchy also!
But the people who are only religious like the religious jews society and others will fight for their dogmatic doctrines
!
one love
Oh, ok ... I just know that most Christians I have met believe in the necessity of baptism. God does not try to trick us into going to hell. If Baptism is a requirement for salvation, then Christ will provide his fold with the will and desire to do so. Personally, my baptism initiated (or jump started) my Journey to Christ and not vise-versa.
That is not what Paul taught.
What is the gospel to you?
Is baptism necessary for salvation?
Can one be saved if not baptized in water?
Is baptism a part of the Gospel message?
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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The Gospel is the Good News of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus the Christ... and it is not limited to Paul's teachings (or Wommack's or even your own). Evan, like Paul and Wommack, you did not see God walk in the flesh as Jesus... but there are those who, like Peter, have written and/or spoken of Jesus from first-hand experience.
Is baptism necessary? Well, that depends on what you mean by "salvation".
Baptism was before the Gospel message, and yes, it remained part of it.
Matthew 3:16
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.
... so why wouldn't one who follows Jesus follow him in baptism?
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
Edited by acumenCry on 07/19/2009 16:47:25
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evan either deal with what we really believe or shut up. sorry bro but i'm getting very tired of being misrepresented by you, tied in with groups that we have no communion with, and then have to deal with your complete ignorance and betrayal of the bible as you hack it apart to make a case for yourself. stop wasting our time... if you have a real argument i'll respond but we shouldn't have to keep re explaining what we believe to you over and over and over... like your a little child or something.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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And Paul most certainly did preach baptism, and explained it most fully as to why we need to be baptized. It is how we enter Christ's Body. It is the means by which we are born again.
Those who suggest that Paul did not fully affirm the necessity of baptism are not familiar with his writings, and have familiarized themselves with only a few verses taken out of context.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Telling evan that Paul preached baptism means nothing coming from you FAL, or anyone else. He only takes Scripture as he wants to take it.
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
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Fifth Member
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Do you think the Israelites would have been saved if they had not followed Moses through the red sea?
1 Cor 10
[1] I want you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,
[2] and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
[3] and all ate the same supernatural food
[4] and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.
Do you think eight persons were not saved through water in the days of Noah?
Do you think baptism, does not corresponds to this?
Do you think Peter was wrong when he said Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you?
1 Peter 3
[18] For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
[19] in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,
[20] who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
[21] Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
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here is a list of some more heretics for evan.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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PM
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quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Telling evan that Paul preached baptism means nothing coming from you FAL, or anyone else. He only takes Scripture as he wants to take it.
well that's plain to see... but that doesn't mean we shouldn't present the full gospel to him. for our part we cannot restrict the sacred scriptures only to what evan narrowly wants to accept.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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Fifth Member
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Member since 04/16/2004
Location: USA
quote:
Salvation is by faith and faith alone, Baptism is not a requirement!
Please show us chapter and verse where the bible states that we are saved by “faith alone”. quote:
They replied: Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31).
Note again no mention of baptism. Just belief in the Lord Jesus
The demons believe in Jesus. Are they saved? So according to Evan, even the demons  are saved, fancy that. 
If I go and stand at the base of Mt. Everest and "I believe" I can climb it, will that automatically put me at the summit of it? Of course not. With believe comes action. I have to act in order to get to the top. Simply by saying the words "I believe" is not going to cut it. Those are not magical words. Look at all the bible verses mikejuli posted. That's a far cry from "just believe" and "saved by faith alone". This is heresy from the get-go. 
We must never glance at what is good in ourselves, much less ponder over it, but we should search out what is wrong and what is lacking. This is an excellent way of remaining humble.
--St. Vincent de Paul
Ad Jesum Per Mariam
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
The Gospel is the Good News of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus the Christ... and it is not limited to Paul's teachings (or Wommack's or even your own). Evan, like Paul and Wommack, you did not see God walk in the flesh as Jesus... but there are those who, like Peter, have written and/or spoken of Jesus from first-hand experience.
Is baptism necessary? Well, that depends on what you mean by "salvation".
Baptism was before the Gospel message, and yes, it remained part of it.
Matthew 3:16
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.
... so why wouldn't one who follows Jesus follow him in baptism?
So according to your theology if Jesus didn't get water baptized He would have went to hell, because he was not saved until He got wet??
I know , and i also teach a person should get baptized and should even want to get wet after they are saved, born again , and have salvation.
Just like after a person get saved and believed in Jesus , they should also read the bible, pray, help where it is needed, go to church, and sooner or latter get baptized as well and learn sooner or latter after they were saved , and were redeemed, and have eternal redemption, why they are getting baptized in water, and also recieve the baptism of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues.
A person can also be spiritual baptized, but have not spoke in tongues, but why not sooner or latter ask or seach for the evidence and tool of speaking in tongues if they are truely saved, and born again?
I am again not against water baptism just against the philosophy that it is a requirement and a must in order to abtain salvation, or be born again!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
evan either deal with what we really believe or shut up. sorry bro but i'm getting very tired of being misrepresented by you, tied in with groups that we have no communion with, and then have to deal with your complete ignorance and betrayal of the bible as you hack it apart to make a case for yourself. stop wasting our time... if you have a real argument i'll respond but we shouldn't have to keep re explaining what we believe to you over and over and over... like your a little child or something.
Sorry Mike for your unpatiece and non long sufferings and a lack of gentleness!
But i can't agree with what is not the true gospel, but I do know where you are coming from and your legalistic doctrines.
Sorry but I also don't believe in the water baptism of the dead like the mormons and I do let them know that even though they call me ignorant and think the same as you do about their belief, over , and over , over again!
The JHW don't believe in the trinity but does that make them right even though it is their belief, and am I wrong for warning them of their errors also along with Muslim who teach Jesus is not the Son of God??
I think if you truely love someone you will not give up, until it is to late and they find they are decieved for themselves, but if I was telling the truth the whole time I think you and other religion at large would thank me so much for my on going efford to see you be set free and come into the knowledge of truth and love!
one love Mike
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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