The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Show me from the scriptures, other than Cornelius, that this EVER happened that a Christian received the Holy Ghost through belief only.

Every other example in the New Testament shows that the Holy Spirit did not come down except with the laying on of hands by a presbyter. Other than Cornelius and his Gentile household, no Christian received the Holy Ghost spontaneously.

Numerous examples were given already to show this, the onus is on you to provide evidence to the contrary. Once Gentiles were accepted into the New Covenant, there was no further need of a sign and so all subsequent Gentiles would have received the Holy Ghost in the same manner as the Samaritans and Jews - by baptism.

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Acts 4:19-37 refers to the Apostles who were let go and were praying for their enemies. Yes, they did receive the Holy Ghost for comfort and support, but they and those with them had already been previously baptized.

Any group of baptized believers with sufficient faith can bring about such miracles.

And who said that Paul did not make it a requirement. All of his letters were written to baptized believers to straighten out misconceptions that they had - such as in 1 Corinthians 5 where they were foolish enough to believe that the fornicator among them could still be saved without any help from them. Paul set them straight and took it upon himself to save the lost soul who presumed to sin after receiving Christ.

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

They had also received the Holy Ghost previously as well.

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Originally posted by evangelist

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Acts 4:19-37 refers to the Apostles who were let go and were praying for their enemies. Yes, they did receive the Holy Ghost for comfort and support, but they and those with them had already been previously baptized.

Any group of baptized believers with sufficient faith can bring about such miracles.

And who said that Paul did not make it a requirement. All of his letters were written to baptized believers to straighten out misconceptions that they had - such as in 1 Corinthians 5 where they were foolish enough to believe that the fornicator among them could still be saved without any help from them. Paul set them straight and took it upon himself to save the lost soul who presumed to sin after receiving Christ.

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Paul said it himself that he baptized few, but he preached the gospel of the good news of Christ in belief and faith to all, everybody as a requirement!

How many people did Jesus baptized, but people believe Jesus and followed Him, and even in most town everyone was healed by Jesus!

one love

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Yes, ALL, and in those passages who were the ALL? The context does not suggest that everyone on the planet received the Holy Ghost, nor does it imply that everyone in that region received the Holy Ghost. Nor does it even give credibility to the idea that the Jews who sent them away received the Holy Ghost.

Who were the Apostles with when the Holy Ghost came down? With their own followers who by that time had already been baptized.

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

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Originally posted by evangelist

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Acts 4:19-37 refers to the Apostles who were let go and were praying for their enemies. Yes, they did receive the Holy Ghost for comfort and support, but they and those with them had already been previously baptized.

Any group of baptized believers with sufficient faith can bring about such miracles.

And who said that Paul did not make it a requirement. All of his letters were written to baptized believers to straighten out misconceptions that they had - such as in 1 Corinthians 5 where they were foolish enough to believe that the fornicator among them could still be saved without any help from them. Paul set them straight and took it upon himself to save the lost soul who presumed to sin after receiving Christ.

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Paul said it himself that he baptized few, but he preached the gospel of the good news of Christ in belief and faith to all, everybody as a requirement!

How many people did Jesus baptized, but people believe Jesus and followed Him, and even in most town everyone was healed by Jesus!

one love

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Jesus baptized none, but He commanded that His Disciples baptize all nations. So what is your point.

Paul had people to baptize, why is it necessary for him to personally baptize anyone?

And yet he did. How many times to I have to post the passages that showed that when Paul came across men who had only been baptized by John the Baptist that his first and immediate reaction was baptize them into Christ. Acts 19.

And NOTE ESPECIALLY verse 2:

"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost."

Belief was not enough. They believed but did NOT receive the Holy Ghost. And Paul percieved immediately that the reason for this was that they had not been baptized into Christ.

Paul did not hesitate for a moment. He did not even take the time for a lengthy discussion on their faith or whether it was strong enough. For Paul there was only ONE SOLUTION - BAPTISM. And he was right. As soon as they were baptized into Christ, by Paul, they received the Holy Ghost.

Actions speak louder than words. Paul could not bear to see any Christian not baptized into Christ. He could not turn away. He was compelled by baptize them immediately only taking a brief moment to explain the difference (as I did with you earlier) between John's baptism and Christian baptism.

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Originally posted by evangelist

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Yes, ALL, and in those passages who were the ALL? The context does not suggest that everyone on the planet received the Holy Ghost, nor does it imply that everyone in that region received the Holy Ghost. Nor does it even give credibility to the idea that the Jews who sent them away received the Holy Ghost.

Who were the Apostles with when the Holy Ghost came down? With their own followers who by that time had already been baptized.

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The chapter didn't mention they got baptized or wet, but they had the belief message.

one love

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Originally posted by mikejuli

what is your understanding of being baptized into christ? pretending to be baptized into christ? evan.. your problem isn't with the catholic church.. it's with jesus.. for some reason you think modern evangelical gnosticism overrides christs command to baptize Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore,teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:... and all means ALL. either explain why catholics should ignore the scriptures for some fancy new religious jargon, especially when christ himself explains it. all you can do is say it's not necessary but then you do it anyway... that is the kind of "religion" you keep trying to accuse catholics of believing...

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

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Originally posted by evangelist

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Yes, ALL, and in those passages who were the ALL? The context does not suggest that everyone on the planet received the Holy Ghost, nor does it imply that everyone in that region received the Holy Ghost. Nor does it even give credibility to the idea that the Jews who sent them away received the Holy Ghost.

Who were the Apostles with when the Holy Ghost came down? With their own followers who by that time had already been baptized.

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The chapter didn't mention they got baptized or wet, but they had the belief message.

one love

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Show me where you can get baptized without water. And Acts 19 proves beyond all doubt that belief does not beget the Holy Ghost or else those believers would have received it. They did not receive the Holy Ghost until after they were baptized into Christ.

And for your example, the Apostles had been very busy baptizing all of the disciples so it is unlikely that they have had followers close by who had not already been baptized. Again, as in Acts 19, they believed in not wasting any time getting believers baptized.

Acts 2:37-38 "Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Belief did not get them the Holy Ghost either, but Peter told them how to get it - repent and be baptized and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You are very stubborn. For someone who claims to have the Bible as their sole rule of faith, you put a lot of trust in man made traditions and refuse to accept the plain truth of the Scriptures.

It was men who decided recently that baptism was only an act of faith and not a sacrament. It was men who disconnected baptism from the Holy Ghost. There is only one passage where anyone received the Holy Ghost ahead of baptism, and that was only a sign from God that they were worthy of being baptized. And yet some men decided, contrary to the very Word of God that this one passage supersedes all of the other passages that show baptism as being connected with the Holy Ghost.

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Originally posted by michael

Can a person baptize themself yes or no?


If no why?

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