The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to
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Part 2 The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved!Mike and many other RCC think if you are not baptized in water you are not saved.Salvation can only come by water baptism think many religious people.Not only the RCC but the church of Jesus Christ and more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/19/2009 13:58:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
And Paul most certainly did preach baptism, and explained it most fully as to why we need to be baptized. It is how we enter Christ's Body. It is the means by which we are born again.
Those who suggest that Paul did not fully affirm the necessity of baptism are not familiar with his writings, and have familiarized themselves with only a few verses taken out of context.
What verses are taken out of contexts??
Did you read what Paul taught of the true gospel in 1 Corithians 15??
No mention of getting wet niether!
one love FAL!
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/21/2009 07:51:35
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quote:
Originally posted by michael
Do you think the Israelites would have been saved if they had not followed Moses through the red sea?
1 Cor 10
[1] I want you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,
[2] and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
[3] and all ate the same supernatural food
[4] and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.
Do you think eight persons were not saved through water in the days of Noah?
Do you think baptism, does not corresponds to this?
Do you think Peter was wrong when he said Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you?
1 Peter 3
[18] For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
[19] in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,
[20] who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
[21] Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Which of any of those stories that the people get wet???
Which of the Israelites got dunk under water ?
Did Noah and his family get dunk , or are you thinking the noah boat was an submarine??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
here is a list of some more heretics for evan.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Quote EV
What came first and why believing or belief and not baptized and then believe??
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Quote EV
Why not baptized and then repent??
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Quote Evangelist
What happen to the believing, can we just get wet and don't believe now according to this verse or are you just picking verses to make your own doctrine to fit your society??
1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Quote EV
Is the the spiritual baptism or the ritual water baptism, and how do you know which one it is according to this verse???
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
What is your understanding of a (like figure)??
Also
what is the meaning or your interpretation of not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
One love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Baptism is not a bath, it washes away the spiritual filth, not the filth of the flesh.
And when God sent the flood, it washed away sin (and sinners) from the earth so that Noah and his family would be saved from sin and given a fresh start.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Baptism is not a bath, it washes away the spiritual filth, not the filth of the flesh.
And when God sent the flood, it washed away sin (and sinners) from the earth so that Noah and his family would be saved from sin and given a fresh start.
Can you answer my questions?
Also where did noah get water baptized, not where the water saves.
Notice the boat saved then , Just like Jesus blood saves us!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Yet we are not in a boat floating in Christ's blood, but bathed in it, washed clean by it.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Baptism is not about getting wet, but about cleansing us of our sins and symbolizing our burial and resurrection into Christ.
Noah did not get immersed (though likely splashed), but the sins of the world were washed away from him by water.
The Hebrews did not get wet when Moses parted the Red Sea, but they did walk through the water and when they came out the other side the water closed up and washed away all that was hindering them. And Moses really did go into the cloud and was covered by it, and the cloud was upon them by day (Numbers 10:34).
There is only ONE BAPTISM, it happens by water and spirit, but is still only one. If water baptism was intended to be separate from spirit baptism, then the Apostles would have to have baptized everyone twice, and each mention of the word "baptize", "baptized" or "baptism" would have to specify water or spirit.
There is no mention of the Apostles baptizeing twice. In Acts 19, the only reason they were baptized a second time was because the first time was only by John the Baptist who could only baptize with water.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Also where did noah get water baptized, not where the water saves.
Notice the boat saved then , Just like Jesus blood saves us!
And yet Scripture relates Noah's ark to our baptism:1 Peter 3:18-22
18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you — not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience — through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
And Paul most certainly did preach baptism, and explained it most fully as to why we need to be baptized. It is how we enter Christ's Body. It is the means by which we are born again.
Those who suggest that Paul did not fully affirm the necessity of baptism are not familiar with his writings, and have familiarized themselves with only a few verses taken out of context.
What verses are taken out of contexts??
Did you read what Paul taught of the true gospel in 1 Corithians 15??
No mention of getting wet niether!
one love FAL!
Here's a mention of getting wet:
Acts 10:47
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
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actually the church teaches of three different baptisms
Baptism of Desire
Baptism of Blood
Sacrament of Baptism (water)
and Jesus said you have to be baptised to enter His kingdom---are you suggesting Jesus is wrong? read and actually research what John 3:3-5 really means..................
We believe that baptism with water -- by immersion, pouring, or sprinkling -- in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, cleanses us from original sin and personal sin (and their punishments) and initiates us into the life of the Church. It is more than merely symbolic; it's more than an expression of belief of the one being baptized (or his parents); it is a Sacrament, both a sign and medium of sanctifying grace. Baptism does something; it remits sins:
Ezekiel 36:25
[Prophecy] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord
It is through Baptism that we are "born again" (or "born from above") of "water and of the Spirit" (John 3:3-5). Read the entire chapter of John 3 which speaks of being "born again" and please note that it is all about Baptism. Despite what some Protestants believe, being "born again" doesn't mean "having an emotional high" or "making a decision for Christ," though these are fine and good, the latter being necessary after the age of reason; being "born again" very clearly refers to Baptism of water and of the Spirit. This regeneration of water and Spirit is necessary to enter the Kingdom of God: John 3:3-5
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God
Baptism leaves an indelible mark on the soul, so one may be baptized only once. (this means only one of the three)
Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Some Protestants argue that "baptizo" in the New Testament means "immersion" and that any Baptism that doesn't include immersion is not a true Baptism. While "baptizo" does mean "immersion," it also means "washing," as is evident in this verse:
Luke 11 38
And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed [baptizo] before dinner.
Trust me, first century Jews didn't immerse themselves before dinner, and Ezekiel's prophecy mentioned above also not only includes, but specifically mentions "sprinkling":
Ezekiel 36:25
[Prophecy] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
The verses mentioned above that describe St. Paul's baptizing people in their households -- houses without swimming pools in them -- indicates "washing" rather than "immersion." Paul himself was baptized not only in a house, but standing up:
Acts 9:17–18
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Yet we are not in a boat floating in Christ's blood, but bathed in it, washed clean by it.
Yes, now we are getting somewhere!
I like how you notice to get into the blood of Jesus that washed us eternalty forever, always clean as Jesus is unless we reject Him and go back to our vormit or mud!
Also I am proud to see it is the blood that only did the perfect everlasting cleaning and not mention another cleaning again added to the blood of Jesus !
one love FAL!
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/22/2009 03:47:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Baptism is not about getting wet, but about cleansing us of our sins and symbolizing our burial and resurrection into Christ.
Noah did not get immersed (though likely splashed), but the sins of the world were washed away from him by water.
The Hebrews did not get wet when Moses parted the Red Sea, but they did walk through the water and when they came out the other side the water closed up and washed away all that was hindering them. And Moses really did go into the cloud and was covered by it, and the cloud was upon them by day (Numbers 10:34).
There is only ONE BAPTISM, it happens by water and spirit, but is still only one. If water baptism was intended to be separate from spirit baptism, then the Apostles would have to have baptized everyone twice, and each mention of the word "baptize", "baptized" or "baptism" would have to specify water or spirit.
There is no mention of the Apostles baptizeing twice. In Acts 19, the only reason they were baptized a second time was because the first time was only by John the Baptist who could only baptize with water.
in the spiritual reality yes it is one baptism!
So when we do the ritual water baptism it is again one natural baptism of the symbolic of the spiritual which counts before God and all the angels!
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
I think if you truely love someone you will not give up, until it is to late and they find they are decieved for themselves, but if I was telling the truth the whole time I think you and other religion at large would thank me so much for my on going efford to see you be set free and come into the knowledge of truth and love!
one love Mike
i never give up evan... i just want you to really deal with truth instead of misrepresenting us. i mean if you really believe your telling the truth why do you need to make claims that are not true about us... especially when we have explained exactly what we do believe. i don't mind so much if you disagree with me but if you only think you disagree with me and continue to completely misrepresent me then there is something wrong with you idea of truth to begin with. i just don't understand where such strong delusion comes from evan because i don't think you dumb but i also don't think you mean to be offensive.... so what is the reason? why cannot to actually deal with what we believe instead of attacking a bent idea of what we believe?
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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quote:
Originally posted by Diana Holberg
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Also where did noah get water baptized, not where the water saves.
Notice the boat saved then , Just like Jesus blood saves us!
And yet Scripture relates Noah's ark to our baptism:1 Peter 3:18-22
18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you — not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience — through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
Noah, Moses , Abraham died in the old covenant and Jesus got them out to go to heaven with him as he went to the spirits in prison!
Jesus is again the savior not the water!
But again we should get baptized sooner or latter if you are a christian, and it can be many years latter also after a christian got saved , born again, and is filled with the Spirit of God!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
And Paul most certainly did preach baptism, and explained it most fully as to why we need to be baptized. It is how we enter Christ's Body. It is the means by which we are born again.
Those who suggest that Paul did not fully affirm the necessity of baptism are not familiar with his writings, and have familiarized themselves with only a few verses taken out of context.
What verses are taken out of contexts??
Did you read what Paul taught of the true gospel in 1 Corithians 15??
No mention of getting wet niether!
one love FAL!
Here's a mention of getting wet:
Acts 10:47
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Notice they believed and was filled with the Holy Ghost!
Plus I am not saying that a person should not get wet, I am against the false heretic doctrine that getting wet is what saves us or is required in order to be born again or saved and have salvation.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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