The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to
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Part 2 The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved!Mike and many other RCC think if you are not baptized in water you are not saved.Salvation can only come by water baptism think many religious people.Not only the RCC but the church of Jesus Christ and more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/19/2009 13:58:35
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True they are not Catholic but again the church of Christ has the same problem of justification with the RCC!
one love
what problem?
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
quote:
True they are not Catholic but again the church of Christ has the same problem of justification with the RCC!
one love
what problem?
The problem on how to get just biblically!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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We know how to get just Biblically. We're just trying to explain it to you.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Baptism is commanded. But the issue is: Is baptism essential for salvation? The answer is a resounding NO!!!! Baptism cannot save you or anybody else. Jesus can save you however!
The Apostle Paul made it quite clear salvation is by faith alone. He writes: Having been justified by faith we can have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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You can not pick & choose the parts of scripture you want to believe.
You can not pick the parts that are written about faith then ignore the parts that written about works.
Show me the words “faith alone” in the Bible.
I understand that there are parts of the new testament where Paul teaches about faith but never “faith alone”
The Catholic Church accepts Paul’s teachings on faith. The Catholic Church accepts the Bible as a whole. Protestants in their protest of the Catholic Church force themselves to pick & choose.
Edited by michael on 08/06/2009 20:33:35
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
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Originally posted by geekborj
Just like the one love you preach, baptism is part of it, brother.
Didn't Jesus say how to pray, and gave other commandments?
But does that mean you have to do all those things in order to be saved or born again??
The key is Believe with your heart and you are heaven bound and ca go directly to the throne of God!
The key is to believe and receive the grace. But believing necessarily results to following His commandments which includes being baptized, to pray, to love, the 8 beatitudes, and others. Indeed, the key is to have faith. All these one have to will to do in order to be saved.
For one to be "born again from Heaven," one has to be baptized. Being born again does not guarantee being a child from Heaven all through one's life because the same can incur a mortal sin that can be removed only via Confession.
--
geekborj
"so that all may be one"
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quote:
what problem?
The problem on how to get just biblically!
one love
[/quote]
sounds like your the one with the problem.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
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quote:
Originally posted by michael
You can not pick & choose the parts of scripture you want to believe.
You can not pick the parts that are written about faith then ignore the parts that written about works.
Show me the words “faith alone” in the Bible.
I understand that there are parts of the new testament where Paul teaches about faith but never “faith alone”
The Catholic Church accepts Paul’s teachings on faith. The Catholic Church accepts the Bible as a whole. Protestants in their protest of the Catholic Church force themselves to pick & choose.
That is like showing the word the trinity in the bible or the word bible in the texts but we know in context they are all there and a biblical doctrine.
But maybe this would help with faith alone:
2Co:5:7: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
Hebrew 11 is a good place to start faith alone and what Faith alone did for many!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
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I would strongly suggest that you read Hebrews 11 all the way through. The first thing that comes to mind is that NONE of them lived by Faith Alone. Not one. The chapter even details some of what they did - I quoted the relevant passage on one of the threads not that long ago.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I would strongly suggest that you read Hebrews 11 all the way through. The first thing that comes to mind is that NONE of them lived by Faith Alone. Not one. The chapter even details some of what they did - I quoted the relevant passage on one of the threads not that long ago.
I 'm not only studying Heb 11 but the whole book of Hebrew in one year!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
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Then why did you not notice the examples given in Hebrews 11? If you have taken a whole year to study Hebrews, then you should be more familiar with it.
As I said, none of the examples in Hebrews 11 lived by Faith Alone. They all demonstrated a vibrant and active faith filled with good works.
So that you acknowledge that you know this, perhaps you can admit it and move on.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Then why did you not notice the examples given in Hebrews 11? If you have taken a whole year to study Hebrews, then you should be more familiar with it.
As I said, none of the examples in Hebrews 11 lived by Faith Alone. They all demonstrated a vibrant and active faith filled with good works.
So that you acknowledge that you know this, perhaps you can admit it and move on.
I think you need to do a two year study to understand Hebrews if this is your theology!
When you really get the revelation and true translations of the book of Hebrews I don't even think you will remain an catholic anymore, and specially your philosophy on sins will be changed into joy and victory.
Also this debate and message about a water baptism would be settle and in right contexts and not a requirement for your salvation!
Do a home work in the book of Hebrew and you might start to believe your own study and meditation on Hebrews and also a better knowledge of Romans.
i did for a long time thought the same as you did until my did my home works and study so I do know why you think like you do and know where you get your theology , but it would take a year or two too explain it to you , but the Holy Spirit and your mind can come to one accord with the Holy Spirit and your born again spirit to bear record of the truth, when you study on your own to show yourself approval.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 08/11/2009 04:25:14
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Evangelist, I did my homework on Hebrews and Revelation. That is why I have remained Catholic.
But you have not answered my passages from Hebrews that demonstrate clearly and plainly that you are wrong. Why do you refuse to address them?
Saying you have studied for a year without demonstrating any actual knowledge of understanding of the subject is not really impressive.
Lets go back to the beginning:
Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
I have lightened the latter part because it is not part of this discussion, as we both strongly agree that without belief nothing matters.
Romans 6:3-4 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Now given that NO group on the planet believes or teaches that we are saved by baptism alone, I am going to assume that you believe that Catholics are heretics for believing and teaching that baptism has any part in salvation.
1 Peter 3:21 "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"
Given the above, please explain how baptism for salvation is a heresy.
Further provide passages that state that baptism does not save.
And not that in 1 Peter 3, it is not the washing of physical dirt that saves but the reason for baptism which is an appeal to God for a clear conscience - which would involve the washing away of our old sins.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, I did my homework on Hebrews and Revelation. That is why I have remained Catholic.
But you have not answered my passages from Hebrews that demonstrate clearly and plainly that you are wrong. Why do you refuse to address them?
Saying you have studied for a year without demonstrating any actual knowledge of understanding of the subject is not really impressive.
Lets go back to the beginning:
Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
I have lightened the latter part because it is not part of this discussion, as we both strongly agree that without belief nothing matters.
Romans 6:3-4 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Now given that NO group on the planet believes or teaches that we are saved by baptism alone, I am going to assume that you believe that Catholics are heretics for believing and teaching that baptism has any part in salvation.
Quote EV:
only heretic in water baptism and the worst purgatory, and the Eucharist!
1 Peter 3:21 "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"
Given the above, please explain how baptism for salvation is a heresy.
Further provide passages that state that baptism does not save.
And not that in 1 Peter 3, it is not the washing of physical dirt that saves but the reason for baptism which is an appeal to God for a clear conscience - which would involve the washing away of our old sins.
The best example and teaching of the water baptism requirement for salvation is an heretic because we can take the example God said in Hebrews which you also did your home work .
Heb:9:10: Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Heb:9:11: But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb:9:12: Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb:9:13: For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb:9:14: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb:9:15: And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
I did do my homeword and you should have read more of Hebrews. I do not participate in any of those old things that were done away with when they were perfected in the New Covenant established by Christ.
Read more of Hebrews and 1 Corinthians to learn more of the results of Christ's perfected forms of these practices.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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