The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to
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Part 2 The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved!Mike and many other RCC think if you are not baptized in water you are not saved.Salvation can only come by water baptism think many religious people.Not only the RCC but the church of Jesus Christ and more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/19/2009 13:58:35
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I did do my homeword and you should have read more of Hebrews. I do not participate in any of those old things that were done away with when they were perfected in the New Covenant established by Christ.
Read more of Hebrews and 1 Corinthians to learn more of the results of Christ's perfected forms of these practices.
Was john the baptist baptism new covenant requirement to get saved while Jesus was still alive?
Also are you thinking the baptism of the dead which the pagans did was the water baptism covenant?
THE mormon use 1 cor 15 for there baptism for the dead which paul spoke againt!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 08/12/2009 15:10:56
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No. Jesus told us how to baptize correctly:
Matthew 28:19-20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen."
And this is precisely why we need a Church. If you cannot tell a proper Christian baptism from a pagan baptism, then you are in real trouble.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
No. Jesus told us how to baptize correctly:
Matthew 28:19-20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen."
And this is precisely why we need a Church. If you cannot tell a proper Christian baptism from a pagan baptism, then you are in real trouble.
So Paul was always obedient to that command of water baptism or else hell, was that the teachings of Paul good gospel?
I was talking about the mormons theology of water baptism, and they are more water baptism based that any religion I know.
It is so required that they baptized for other people who are even dead, because they say they are lost also without getting wet.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Mormons are also imitations. I know the passage where they get the idea for baptizing their dead, but that is not what was meant.
And yes, Paul was very obedient when it comes to baptism. He was baptized before preaching a word of the Gospel. He did baptize a few on his own, but mostly relied on his helpers to baptize the rest - this was common practice at the time - and if you recall from the scriptures, Jesus baptized no one (probably because He knew in advance the problems that would cause, the very problem that Paul complained about when he said that he was thankful that he had baptized none of those foolish persons who were dividing into sects along the lines of who baptized them.
Paul speaks very powerfully on baptism on a few occassions and even in that passage you kept raising, Paul was not diminishing baptism at all, but stressing its importance to our unity. Know ye not that all who are baptized were baptized into Christ?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
Edited by Faith_at_Large on 08/13/2009 06:17:45
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Mormons are also imitations. I know the passage where they get the idea for baptizing their dead, but that is not what was meant.
And yes, Paul was very obedient when it comes to baptism. He was baptized before preaching a word of the Gospel. He did baptize a few on his own, but mostly relied on his helpers to baptize the rest - this was common practice at the time - and if you recall from the scriptures, Jesus baptized no one (probably because He knew in advance the problems that would cause, the very problem that Paul complained about when he said that he was thankful that he had baptized none of those foolish persons who were dividing into sects along the lines of who baptized them.
Paul speaks very powerfully on baptism on a few occassions and even in that passage you kept raising, Paul was not diminishing baptism at all, but stressing its importance to our unity. Know ye not that all who are baptized were baptized into Christ?
my point again is that if paul only baptized a few but taught the gospel of Christ why didn't he baptized all like we know John trhe baptist did?
If it was a requirement his gospel would be preached as a John the baptist and the gospel of regenration spiritually baptized in Christ, by the invisible blood of Jesus .
I like to put thing first where it is the key to salvation and Paul preach just that which get anyone in the Kingdom of God , being redeemed, justified,righteous, and sinless in thier born again spirits.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Every single person who came to Christ through Paul was baptized. Paul saw to that. Why is it so important to you that Paul personally baptize all of his fans?
In the passage in Acts that I showed you earlier, Paul was so taken aback by some Christians he encountered who had not received the Holy Ghost, he immediately made the connection to their lack of proper baptism and made certain that they were baptized into Christ.
Your notion that each preacher had to personally baptize everyone who listened to them even though they all had helpers to do this is insane.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Every single person who came to Christ through Paul was baptized. Paul saw to that. Why is it so important to you that Paul personally baptize all of his fans?
In the passage in Acts that I showed you earlier, Paul was so taken aback by some Christians he encountered who had not received the Holy Ghost, he immediately made the connection to their lack of proper baptism and made certain that they were baptized into Christ.
Your notion that each preacher had to personally baptize everyone who listened to them even though they all had helpers to do this is insane.
The good news is that we can promise when they accept Jesus that they are instantly saved, forgiev of every sins ,past,present, and future sins!
That is done without any water only spiritually and with the heart which is the faith!
But this is the biblical understanding, religion will add a added works!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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But that is not the Good News of the Bible. That is your edited version.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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No where in the Bible does it say that we are "instantly" saved. It does not say that we are immediately saved either. Some were healed immediately of their afflictions, but no one was immediately saved.
Do a search through the Bible, you will find that there are numerous passages that say that we "shall be saved" which is a future event, not immediate.
There are some instances of "are saved" but often in the general sense and with qualifiers. I.e. we are saved by hope (in Romans 8:24), but that does not mean we are already saved, but rather that hope will save us.
Romans 8:23-25 "And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it]."
Sometimes, it even gets more interesting:
1 Timothy 2:9-15 "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."
It appears that as a woman, I shall be saved by bearing children and IF I and my children continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. So much for "instant" salvation.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
But that is not the Good News of the Bible. That is your edited version.
Is it bad new to bad to be true FAL?????
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
No where in the Bible does it say that we are "instantly" saved. It does not say that we are immediately saved either. Some were healed immediately of their afflictions, but no one was immediately saved.
Do a search through the Bible, you will find that there are numerous passages that say that we "shall be saved" which is a future event, not immediate.
There are some instances of "are saved" but often in the general sense and with qualifiers. I.e. we are saved by hope (in Romans 8:24), but that does not mean we are already saved, but rather that hope will save us.
Romans 8:23-25 "And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it]."
Sometimes, it even gets more interesting:
1 Timothy 2:9-15 "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."
It appears that as a woman, I shall be saved by bearing children and IF I and my children continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. So much for "instant" salvation.
Whan Jesus spoke to the fig tree did it die instantly??
Let me help you yes, in the real world or spiritual world it died died from the roots instantly!
So a person get saved instantly as thier seed id planted in the kingdom of God by thier hearts!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Jesus also healed the lame instantly, and it says so in the Bible just as it says that the fig tree died instantly. But the Bible does NOT say that we are saved instantly. So why do you apply miraculous events to salvation. Salvation is frequently described as a future event, a process of sanctification, in hope of receiving our inheritance.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Jesus also healed the lame instantly, and it says so in the Bible just as it says that the fig tree died instantly. But the Bible does NOT say that we are saved instantly. So why do you apply miraculous events to salvation. Salvation is frequently described as a future event, a process of sanctification, in hope of receiving our inheritance.
Nope i disagree and that what you said is not the good gospel, that is a gospel in the making and left on yourself doing and processing!
read the book of John 3 again!
I can give you many scriptures that being saved is instantly and that is the gospel.
read also Romans 10:9 till the end and look at the meaning of saved past tense and don't let religion play a greek or word game to decieve you of the too good news Paul taught and Jesus brought to us.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
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FAL
you can not show me one verse in the bible which say you are not saved if you don't get wet baptized!
Show me verse in the bible which shows a requirement of baptism to get saved and you are damned without a water baptism the outward sign!
Let me say again every christian should get water baptized after they are saved, born agian and are redeemed, justified, and have salvation now.
Just like I know many christian who don't go to a church any more but love God more than some pastors I seen and leaders, and are saved.
But not going to church is not a requirement to salvation or to be saved.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Jesus also healed the lame instantly, and it says so in the Bible just as it says that the fig tree died instantly. But the Bible does NOT say that we are saved instantly. So why do you apply miraculous events to salvation. Salvation is frequently described as a future event, a process of sanctification, in hope of receiving our inheritance.
Nope i disagree and that what you said is not the good gospel, that is a gospel in the making and left on yourself doing and processing!
read the book of John 3 again!
I can give you many scriptures that being saved is instantly and that is the gospel.
read also Romans 10:9 till the end and look at the meaning of saved past tense and don't let religion play a greek or word game to decieve you of the too good news Paul taught and Jesus brought to us.
one love
I have read those passages, and you have yet to address the passages I have quoted to you. Some of which included the passages you have previously provided in context.
On this occassion, I draw your attention to Romans 10:16, which falls in the middle of your latest "evidence".
Romans 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?"
The gospel must be obeyed, not merely accepted. You cannot say you accept the Gospel if you are unwilling to live it. And you cannot take a line or two out of context from Paul and expect that Jesus will accept that your personal gospel is the same as His True Gospel.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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