water baptism or just belief?
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First Member
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PM
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Location: Germany
Does water baptism saves?Does believing and faith alone saved?
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Heck if calling the Bible the final authority was a guarantee of agreement, we would not have 30,000 plus Christian denominations all claiming to use the Bible as their sole authority.
But most of them don't also allow the Holy Spiriut to teach them or correct them so confussion and division come from letting religious men and religion open the door for satan and his demons to twist the gospel and truth!
The thing is that when many don't hear the Holy Spirit , they start their own denomination and religious clubs.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 01/26/2008
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
You do not have to agree with the Catholic Church, but at least agree with the Bible. So far you claim to know the Truth and yet you contradict the Bible so often that it seems that you no longer recognise it as being God's Word.
If you had the bible as your final authoroty then we both would come in many agreements. and same interpretaions in the truth of the word of God and not doctrines of men!
This is why I have more understanding and victory with JHW while they are at least bible directed in many things and the bible is also their final authority.
I think they would also agree about the error of water baptism taught in many religious churchy.
one love
Correction, if you truly had the Bible as YOUR final authority, then we would be in agreement on most things.
You want me to have the Bible as my FINAL authority ONLY so that I will not accept the Authority of my Church. But you refuse to accept the Bible as an authority AT ALL. You deny much of what is in the Bible and reject sound doctrine that stems from the very scriptures themselves.
It is a Catch-22. The Bible demands that I follow proper authority. Check. The Bible demands that I obey those who have rule over me. Check. The Bible demands that I follow Oral Tradition as well as the Written Word. Check. The Bible demands that I respect the authority given Peter and the Apostles and their successors. Check.
Do you do ANY of this?
The Bible demands that you follow proper authority. Nope, you say only the Bible, but the Bible never says that.
The Bible demands that you obey those who have rule over you. Nope, you insist on having rule over yourself.
The Bible demands that you follow Oral Tradition as well as the Written Word. Nope, you insist that this was somehow done away with - in the absense of any evidence at all.
The Bible demands that you respect the authority given Peter and the Apostles and their successors. Nope, you insist that they had no authority and that it is acceptable to bear false witness against their successors - even when the Bible says that you may not do this, especially against a bishop or presbyter of Christ's Church.
When you actually start accepting the Bible at least as Authoritative and Binding, which I already do, then we can talk about what should be our final authority.
You forget that the bible has priority over the oral and traditions of men!
What else does Jesus say about Tradition?
Then the Pharisees and scribes asked [Jesus], why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is WRITTEN [Jesus is quoting the Bible], This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men...
And he said unto them, Full well YE REJECT THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD, THAT YE MAY KEEP YOUR OWN TRADITION.
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Mark 7:5-9, 13
THIS is the scripture Catholics need to read! But alas, instead they listen to their apologists and try to support their man-made traditions with the Book they once burned and outlawed!
Did the Catholic religion give me the scriptures?
I can't believe they are even forming their mouths to say this. The Catholic religion hates the Bible. The Catholic religion killed upwards of 50 MILLION PEOPLE because they wanted to stop the reading of the Bible. What gall they have to mention this thing about giving me the scriptures. They BURNED the scriptures.
Do not be under the false assumption that there was ever a time when the Catholic religion had control of all Christendom. True Bible believers have always been around living, growing and thriving in isolated areas--people like the Waldensians and the Lollardsands.
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Is the Bible enough?
The Catholic religion says, "No, the Bible is not enough. You have to keep it in perspective." But the Bible says something entirely different. Revelation says the BIBLE IS COMPLETE. That means the Bible ain't missin' nothin! There is nothing to be added and nothing to be taken away.
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:18-19
If you are a Catholic person teaching people to believe in Tradition, you need to re-evaluate what you are doing. Not only do you follow a false gospel, you add to and subtract from God's word. You might want to read the above again and consider what you are doing.
I've compiled a list of every New Testament reference to the word "scripture". NO WHERE will you find it say that the scriptures are not sufficient for everthing that we need. One Catholic told me,
"The Bible itself never claims to be the sole rule of faith. The Bible claims itself useful to settle disputes, etc..but never, anywhere does it say that faith and Christianity is taught ONLY through the Bible."
Of course this is not true, but the larger question is this:
Where does the Bible say that it is NOT the sole rule of faith?
If what you believe is supposed to be based on the Bible, then logically speaking, there must be a place that specifically sanctions the Catholic religion and its traditions. You won't find it. The burden of proof rests on the Catholic, not the Bible believer.
Either you believe the written word or you'll believe what MEN tell you about the written word. Catholics will tell you, "I believe the Bible is 100% true and I believe that Catholic Tradition is 100% true." I've got news for you, two contradictory documents cannot both be 100% true. It is logically impossible.
God will not accept your worship based on a lie.
my source:
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/oraltrad.htm
one love
Simply having a copy of the Deceleration of Independence does not make you supreme authority free to interpret however you want.
Go tell a police that because you have a copy of the Deceleration of Independence he has to do what you say now. Explain to him the Protestant false analogy of having access to a Bible & explain how you are now just applying it to the Deceleration of Independence & because you have a copy of the Deceleration of Independence he has to do what you say because you have authority because you have a copy.
The bible is not a magic ring you put on or hold that automatically gives the one holding it supreme authority.
Is the Bible the final authority or is having access to a Bible the final authority?
What if one does not have access to a bible, what about that person, no authority?
What if a person had access to a Bible for years but never read it then lost access to the Bible does that mean that person had authority when that person had it & then lost authority when they lost it?
How much of the Bible does one need to read in order to have authority or does one only need to simply have access to a Bible to have authority without actually reading all of it? Does it matter which parts of the Bible a person reads or do they have to read certain parts of the Bible to have authority? If it does matter which certain parts of the Bible a person must read in order to have authority can a person throw away or interpret away the parts that do not matter?
What is the bare minimum required to be believed from the Bible before one has authority?
You also said "Where does the Bible say that it is NOT the sole rule of faith?"
Did Jesus ever tell anybody to write anything? No
Rocky Peter the Rock says.
2 peter 3:16
[16] speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.
You can destroy yourself twisting Paul’s letters & Old testament scriptures. The Bible is not a matter of one's own interpretation or a SOLE rule of faith.
2 peter 1:20
[20] First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,
The Bible is not a matter of one's own interpretation or a SOLE rule of faith.
2 Thess 3:6-7
[6] Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.
[7] For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us
Are you living in accord with tradition like Paul commands us? Did Paul say imitate us in verse7?
2 Thess 2:14-15
[14] To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[15] So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.
2 Thess 2:14-15 says word of mouth or oral tradition & NOT that the bible is the SOLE rule of faith. Protestants force themselves to waste years & decades of their lives trying to prove 2 Thess 2:15 does not exist or if it does exist it does not mean what it says.
2 Thess 3:14-15
[14] If any one refuses to obey what we say in this letter, note that man, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.
[15] Do not look on him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.
2 Thess 3:14-15 says if you evangelist refuse to obey what 2 Thess 3:6-7 says & what 2 Thess 2:14-15 says in this letter we are to note you evangelist and have nothing to do with you, that you may be ashamed & not look on you as an enemy, but warn you as a brother.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Heck if calling the Bible the final authority was a guarantee of agreement, we would not have 30,000 plus Christian denominations all claiming to use the Bible as their sole authority.
But most of them don't also allow the Holy Spiriut to teach them or correct them so confussion and division come from letting religious men and religion open the door for satan and his demons to twist the gospel and truth!
The thing is that when many don't hear the Holy Spirit , they start their own denomination and religious clubs.
one love
And yet, many of those denominations also claim to be led by the Holy Spirit, just as you make the same claim. You are just as "religious" as any of them and have allowed "religious" men to teach you. And like them, you have allowed yourself to be deluded into thinking that you have it right and they have it wrong.
How can that be? They all use the same Bible that you do.
Of course, without the Church, the Bible is not guaranteed to be reliable.
Exhibit A: The New World Translation used by the JWs is a very flawed translation. The authors modified the text to suit their theology.
Exhibit B: The New International Version (NIV) has been through a few revisions, thank goodness. The first publication was clearly modified to suit the theology of the translaters who deliberately substituted words to make their points clearer.
The fact that Exhibit A still exists and has a growing following is proof that while peer pressure can help correct some of the problems that crop up, it is not a guarantee.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
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Hello Michael
you for got one main thing about the bible it is alive, and not a dead religiousd book.
It is a weapon against satan and every demon !
Without the word of God id like going to war or , fighting the devil with a water pistol, and not a sword.
This is why satan don't want the word of God to have final authority so you can fight with a rubber knife, or a blank gun!
Eph:6:16: Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph:6:17: And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Heck if calling the Bible the final authority was a guarantee of agreement, we would not have 30,000 plus Christian denominations all claiming to use the Bible as their sole authority.
But most of them don't also allow the Holy Spiriut to teach them or correct them so confussion and division come from letting religious men and religion open the door for satan and his demons to twist the gospel and truth!
The thing is that when many don't hear the Holy Spirit , they start their own denomination and religious clubs.
one love
And yet, many of those denominations also claim to be led by the Holy Spirit, just as you make the same claim. You are just as "religious" as any of them and have allowed "religious" men to teach you. And like them, you have allowed yourself to be deluded into thinking that you have it right and they have it wrong.
How can that be? They all use the same Bible that you do.
Of course, without the Church, the Bible is not guaranteed to be reliable.
Exhibit A: The New World Translation used by the JWs is a very flawed translation. The authors modified the text to suit their theology.
Exhibit B: The New International Version (NIV) has been through a few revisions, thank goodness. The first publication was clearly modified to suit the theology of the translaters who deliberately substituted words to make their points clearer.
The fact that Exhibit A still exists and has a growing following is proof that while peer pressure can help correct some of the problems that crop up, it is not a guarantee.
The JHW does use the bible also as their final authority and even say all bible as such are infallible , but it is funny that they are known as a cult, and in error of ther truth, the trinity, error of Jesus body bdeing resurrected, and the gospel of truth being deluted.
They have leaders who watch over them but teach another gospel using some a same local bible.
Even satan use scripture against Jesus and twisted the true scripture to get Jesus to worship him and jump from the temple, but Jesus knew the context of the scripture and didn't get decieved.
Jesus is that truth , way and the life, not religion or religuous men at large !
Jesus and Paul taught belief with faith saves not shadows of rituals and traditions!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Evangelist, the JWs show why having the Bible as their final authority is so very risky. They got it wrong. Not only that, they changed their Bible to suit their theology.
Their leaders do not have lawful authority. They were not ordained by any successors to the Apostles. They can name it and claim it just like you do, but that does not make it so.
Shadows do not save, but the reality that has been perfected in Christ, does save. It is unfortunately that you write such truth as you have above and yet miss the point. You have described your own situation perfectly and yet do not see it in the words you wrote.
Even Satan uses the scriptures to twist and deceive, so too do many humans who are unwilling to yeild themselves totally to Christ - body and soul.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, the JWs show why having the Bible as their final authority is so very risky. They got it wrong. Not only that, they changed their Bible to suit their theology.
Their leaders do not have lawful authority. They were not ordained by any successors to the Apostles. They can name it and claim it just like you do, but that does not make it so.
Shadows do not save, but the reality that has been perfected in Christ, does save. It is unfortunately that you write such truth as you have above and yet miss the point. You have described your own situation perfectly and yet do not see it in the words you wrote.
Even Satan uses the scriptures to twist and deceive, so too do many humans who are unwilling to yeild themselves totally to Christ - body and soul.
Yes !yeilding yourself is a process, but in your born again spirit the good news is that you have arrive and you are exactly like Jesus is now in your spirit born again, even without getting wet or water baptized!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 09/27/2009 11:17:01
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PM
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Show me the scripture passage that proves that.
You body cannot do anything unless your spirit wills it. If your body sins, it is your spirit that sinned first.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Show me the scripture passage that proves that.
You body cannot do anything unless your spirit wills it. If your body sins, it is your spirit that sinned first.
Sure FAL!
Most people don't let the bible get in the way of what they believe and in their theology and philosophy!
So you might have a problem with what I quote because it biblicall FAL.
Spirit, Soul, And Body - Article
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Understanding Spirit, Soul, And Body
By Andrew Wommack
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Did you know a Christian can actually die from sickness or disease while the same power that raised Jesus from the dead lies dormant within them? Or did you know that believers can be overcome with depression, anger, and bitterness, all the while possessing God’s love, joy, and peace in their spirits?
It’s true—they can and they do. Why? Because they really don’t understand what changed when they were born again, and therefore have difficulty receiving the promises of God. The Bible says that every born-again believer has undergone a complete inner transformation.
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ” (2 Cor. 5:17-18).
It doesn’t say that all things are becoming new or have the potential of becoming new; they are new, the moment you are born again. But in order for that to make sense, you must first understand how God created you.
God’s Word clearly teaches that we are three-part beings, but very few Christians have a functional understanding of spirit, soul, and body in their daily lives. Intellectually, most Christians believe they’re three-part beings, but functionally, they act as though they’re only made up of body and soul. They’re confused about the operation of the soul and spirit, seeing them basically as the same thing.
Even Strong’s Concordance fails to distinguish all three! It defines “spirit” (pneuma in the Greek) as “the rational soul.” However, in my study of God’s Word, I have found a very distinct difference between spirit and soul. Your spirit is your innermost part, not your “rational soul.”
First Thessalonians 5:23 makes it very clear:
“And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (emphasis mine).
If you were talking to me face to face, you’d be looking at my body but speaking to my soul. The word “soul” is defined by some as the mind, will, and emotions. While that’s certainly true, it’s incomplete. The “conscience” should also be included in that definition. The soul is really what most people call the “personality.”
You can feel both your body and your soul and are receiving information from them all the time. For example, if I put my hand on your shoulder, you would know that I touched you. I could also make you feel happy or sad, or even hurt you without any physically contact, simply by the words I speak. Those words are processed by your mind, and the result of their effect is often expressed in your emotions.
It’s easy to know how your body feels, what’s going on in your mind, and what emotions you’re experiencing. However, your spirit is much different. It cannot be accessed in any natural way.
John 3:6 says,
“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
Jesus meant that there’s no direct connection between the spirit and flesh. They are interrelated, but spirit is spirit and flesh is flesh. You simply cannot contact your spirit through your five senses or through your mind, will, or emotions. Therein lies one of the great problems of the Christian life!
If you don’t understand that spiritual reality can’t be felt, then you’ll be confused when God’s Word declares that you have the same power that raised Jesus from the dead living in you (Eph. 1:19-20). If you think truth can be discerned through your natural senses, you’ll be baffled when the Bible says you’re a brand-new creature who can do the same miraculous works that Jesus did (2 Cor. 5:17 and John 14:12).
The apparent disparity between your natural experiences and God’s Word will cause you to throw up your hands in frustration and conclude, “It must not be true.” It’s understanding spirit, soul, and body that unlocks the spirit realm so you can experience who you are and what you have in Christ.
In the natural, the spirit realm can’t be seen or felt; the only way to accurately perceive spiritual truth is through the Bible. Simply take God’s Word and believe it!
Jesus said in John 6:63,
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
God’s Word reveals spiritual reality. If you want to know what your spirit is like, you must find out from the Word, not rely on emotions or other perceptions. God’s Word is spirit and life! When you look at your face in a mirror, you aren’t really seeing yourself; you’re viewing a reflection. Even though it’s only a reflection, you have learned to trust it and act on what you see. God’s Word is just like that mirror: it reflects perfectly who you are in the spirit.
“For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therin, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed” (James 1:23-25).
You must look into God’s mirror and trust the spiritual reality you see! It reflects your new born-again spirit, your innermost part. However, it does not reflect your body or your soul.
Although full payment has been made for your glorified body through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, you still have a corrupted body. One day it will be redeemed and changed into an incorruptible one. For now, you still must live in the same body you had before you were saved.
Your soul wasn’t saved either. You may have the same thoughts and emotions you had before you were saved. And because of that, some people seriously doubt whether or not they are saved. They don’t understand that the change took place in their spirits. Typically, your body and soul are both impacted by what happens at salvation, but that’s not where the complete change took place.
The good news is you can change your mind. In fact, we are commanded to do so.
Romans 12:2 says,
“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
Your soul can be transformed to the degree that you renew your mind, change your attitudes, and conform to the Word of God. This should happen, and it’s in the process of happening, but it didn’t happen automatically when you were saved.
In your soul, old things did not pass away, and all things haven’t yet become new. For that reason, you could actually die from sickness or disease even though you have all of the power that raised Jesus from the dead residing untapped within your spirit. It’s like dying of thirst while leaning against a well full of life-giving water.
one love
my source from wommack notes
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/spirit_soul
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
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Wommack is a false teacher. And what you have provided is not Biblical, and you have consistently ignored what I have quoted from the Bible on many of your threads.
2 Corinthians 2:17 "Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Our body will be sown to reap an incorruptible body, but the process has already been put in motion.
A creature is a created being, flesh and blood, not just a spirit. You are forcing the scriptures to say something that they do not.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
The problem is that you see only the physical but not the spiritual. You figure that if a person does not instantly become beautiful and physically perfect, then nothing happened. That is how humans judge, not God.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 01/26/2008
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Hello Michael
you for got one main thing about the bible it is alive, and not a dead religiousd book.
It is a weapon against satan and every demon !
Without the word of God id like going to war or , fighting the devil with a water pistol, and not a sword.
This is why satan don't want the word of God to have final authority so you can fight with a rubber knife, or a blank gun!
Eph:6:16: Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph:6:17: And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Is the Bible the final authority or is having access to a Bible the final authority?
What if one does not have access to a bible, what about that person, no authority?
What if a person had access to a Bible for years but never read it then lost access to the Bible does that mean that person had authority when that person had it & then lost authority when they lost it?
How much of the Bible does one need to read in order to have authority or does one only need to simply have access to a Bible to have authority without actually reading all of it? Does it matter which parts of the Bible a person reads or do they have to read certain parts of the Bible to have authority? If it does matter which certain parts of the Bible a person must read in order to have authority can a person throw away or interpret away the parts that do not matter?
What is the bare minimum required to be believed from the Bible before one has authority?
As far as the Wommacks notes you posted
First you tell us Catholics not to follow men
then you turn around & tell us to follow Wommack, who is a man, is he not?
Edited by michael on 09/27/2009 18:06:51
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PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Wommack is a false teacher. And what you have provided is not Biblical, and you have consistently ignored what I have quoted from the Bible on many of your threads.
2 Corinthians 2:17 "Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Our body will be sown to reap an incorruptible body, but the process has already been put in motion.
A creature is a created being, flesh and blood, not just a spirit. You are forcing the scriptures to say something that they do not.
what is a new creature to you?
if wommack is a false teacher ,then your pope is just as bad!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
The problem is that you see only the physical but not the spiritual. You figure that if a person does not instantly become beautiful and physically perfect, then nothing happened. That is how humans judge, not God.
Amrn!
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 06/26/2002
quote:
what is a new creature to you?
if wommack is a false teacher ,then your pope is just as bad!
one love
why? that's like someone saying that if the book of mormon is a false scritpure then the bible is just as bad... the difference between womack and the pope are too great to classify them together evan. the main reason and the one that should be addressed first is that the bible is actually a catholic book and that means that the pope has actual authority to teach on it. womack has no right to do that any more than the jw's do because for him it's only a stolen book too.
god gave the bible to the church like he gives children to parents. just because someone steals a child and acts like a father doesn't make him one.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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