Where is the true church?
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I have been told the Catholic church was the true church, i have been told the Baptist church was the true church, and so on, and so on, will the ral church please stand up! Give me the reason why please. Thank you very much. lacy-1
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Originally posted by mikejuli
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Now come on! Of course they did, they knew even back in Davids day and then Isiahs day, that a Messiah was comming to redeem them. even Nebakeneza knew the form of the 4th man was like the Son of God??
like i said you need to prove that. satan is refered to as a son of god. isaiahs prophecy came true in his own time about emmanuel and there was no reason to think that the prophecy would have a double meaning.... as a matter of fact nothing really would suggest that there was a trinity outright.
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Then after Jesus came, he worked all the time with the decipals and don't you think he would have told them he would be there in essance of the Holy Spirit? Common sence.
i agree but the fact is that even if he did... the term isn't mentioned in the bible and the early church had a lot of questions and ideas about how it all fit together....
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He told them," I go to prepare a place for you, so that where i am you may be also, if i do not go then the Comforter cannot come."
which could mean a lot of things and does mean a lot of things to many different people. i know what the church teaches about this and it's conclusion is the trinity but it's not as evident as you seem to think it is.
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Now if you look that up in it's original language, you will find that we in changing alot of the book of the Bible, have changed alot of the original meaning(Comming to you with another gospel).
do you speak greek?... i mean i hear this a lot from people that simply are not even slightly able to read those original languages.
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and alot of people have lost interest in the bible now, because of all the intrpertations and scripture left out or not tought, because it might bring down condemnation on the church.
a lot of people have lost interest... mostly because there are sooooo many people claiming to interpret it and contradicting everyone else that it's does seem to be a huge cluster. that is just more a reason to understand tradition in the sacred sense and stop trying to be your own pope.
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Why don't you teach Revelations? you say it already happened. Well guess what? you are not going to be prepared for when it does happen, it will be like what Jesus, said "they will all be running around, to and fro like in Noah;'s day, until the flood came and swept them all away! No thanks;[/.q I want to be prepared no matter what church, is doing what. if they are at least teaching what the holy spirit tought i am for it . If God be for you, who cn be against you? John was one of Jesus favorite decipals he lived to be in his 90's and died in his sleep.lacy-1
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Posted on 10/12/2009 at 16:40:51 | Reply | Report Abuse | 0
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Now come on! Of course they did, they knew even back in Davids day and then Isiahs day, that a Messiah was comming to redeem them. even Nebakeneza knew the form of the 4th man was like the Son of God??
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like i said you need to prove that. satan is refered to as a son of god. isaiahs prophecy came true in his own time about emmanuel and there was no reason to think that the prophecy would have a double meaning.... as a matter of fact nothing really would suggest that there was a trinity outright.
 When did Issiahs prophecy come true about Emmanuel?
David was not talking about the devil, his Psalms are of God and Psalms 22 is agood discription of that and 23rd.lacy-1
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Then after Jesus came, he worked all the time with the decipals and don't you think he would have told them he would be there in essance of the Holy Spirit? Common sence.
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i agree but the fact is that even if he did... the term isn't mentioned in the bible and the early church had a lot of questions and ideas about how it all fit together....
Three is trinity=Great Commission: Matt 28:19 lacy-1
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He told them," I go to prepare a place for you, so that where i am you may be also, if i do not go then the Comforter cannot come."
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which could mean a lot of things and does mean a lot of things to many different people. i know what the church teaches about this and it's conclusion is the trinity but it's not as evident as you seem to think it is.
I don't know what you mean by that Evident? lacy-1
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When did Issiahs prophecy come true about Emmanuel?
David was not talking about the devil, his Psalms are of God and Psalms 22 is agood discription of that and 23rd.lacy-1
Isa 8:3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz. this fulfils isaiahs prophecy about a young woman concieving. as christians we believe that the prophecy also concerns jesus.. but that is not an argument that the jews accept because they don't believe in double prophecy.
David i don't think ever used the term son of god and i was responding to what you said about Nebuchadnezzar. my point was that the term son of god has more meanings that what we give it as christians... it certianly proves nothing about a trinity on it's own especially when it is also used to describe angels.
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Three is trinity=Great Commission: Matt 28:19 lacy-1
yes i'm aware of that too... but once again there is a lot more to the idea of the trinity than just knowing that there is a father son and holy ghost.
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I don't know what you mean by that Evident? lacy-1
see above... then look at history and see the controversies that surrounded the idea.. i'm not trying to disprove the trinity but i am saying that it certainly is not something that can be left to private interpretation because history shows how many different interpretations can be biblically derived.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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Originally posted by mikejuli
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When did Issiahs prophecy come true about Emmanuel?
David was not talking about the devil, his Psalms are of God and Psalms 22 is agood discription of that and 23rd.lacy-1
Isa 8:3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz. this fulfils isaiahs prophecy about a young woman concieving. as christians we believe that the prophecy also concerns jesus.. but that is not an argument that the jews accept because they don't believe in double prophecy.
Michael, i was talking about Isa.:53 lacy-1
David i don't think ever used the term son of god
PSALMS :2:7 lacy-1
and i was responding to what you said about Nebuchadnezzar. my point was that the term son of god has more meanings that what we give it as christians... it certianly proves nothing about a trinity on it's own especially when it is also used to describe angels.
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Three is trinity=Great Commission: Matt 28:19 lacy-1
yes i'm aware of that too... but once again there is a lot more to the idea of the trinity than just knowing that there is a father son and holy ghost.
What!! lacy-1
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I don't know what you mean by that Evident? lacy-1
see above... then look at history and see the controversies that surrounded the idea.. i'm not trying to disprove the trinity but i am saying that it certainly is not something that can be left to private interpretation because history shows how many different interpretations can be biblically derived.
So the Catholic church is wrong and the Protestant churches are wrong? If so does that deny the Christ as the Son of God?, by the way you never use capitals when you speak of God! lacy-1
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Ok, some people here have some issues with formatting responses. If you're going to quote someone else and then respond, can you please either separate the quote from the response or make the response another color... please. I'm getting a migraine just trying to figure out who's saying what at this point.
Carry on.
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Originally posted by Kim
Ok, some people here have some issues with formatting responses. If you're going to quote someone else and then respond, can you please either separate the quote from the response or make the response another color... please. I'm getting a migraine just trying to figure out who's saying what at this point.
Carry on.
Hello Kim, I seperate all my responses, and sign them to. i am not to computer lit and if you could show me i will put another color in OK? thank you lacy-1
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So the Catholic church is wrong and the Protestant churches are wrong? If so does that deny the Christ as the Son of God?, by the way you never use capitals when you speak of God! lacy-1
no.. .the catholic church is right and protestants have a lot right that they got from the catholics in the first place... and i don't use capitals at all... just lazy.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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Originally posted by mikejuli
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So the Catholic church is wrong and the Protestant churches are wrong? If so does that deny the Christ as the Son of God?, by the way you never use capitals when you speak of God! lacy-1
no.. .the catholic church is right and protestants have a lot right that they got from the catholics in the first place... and i don't use capitals at all... just lazy.
Michael, i alway's hear that the Protsetants got everything from the Catholics? Right? Well you are wrong, sorry to tell you this but the Protestants were Catholic's at one time to and knew all that stuff you are refering to and the Catholics always refere to. Where did the Protestants come from if not the church in England and Rome, they came to America to start their own religion and they did, now the Catholics followed them here to a land of milk and honey This is a Protestant country based on Protestant beliefs. lacy-1
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lacy that's exactly my point... they got everything worth having from the catholics... they split away and that is not our fault any more than it was moses fault that korah and his followers tried to do their own thing. i have not problem with saying america is a protestant country, frankly i don't care,,, but that doesn't change history and it cannot change the fact that the the whole point of being protestant is about rebellion. they didn't come to america to start their own religion... most of them were already started and because protestants were so good at protesting against rome they soon took up their protests against each other and basically ran to america to get away from persecution created by the very nature of protestantism. and while here they have managed to continue to rebel and from hundreds of new sects all competing as denominations or non denominations.... so if thats what america is really based on... division, i can agree. americans tend to be the most selfish whiny ignorant bastards on earth..... there is greatness to but that probably comes from the catholics here. hee hee. seriously though i cannot say there is any actual protestant beleif that is universally accepted but those we would actually consider to be christians that i am aware of. when i was a non catholic we used to talk about cults... and the primary factor in determining if a group was truly a cult was the trinity... was jesus the jesus of the creeds or was he tweaked to an angel, or was jesus the father son and holyspirit... like the oneness groups claim... even today the trinity is not so clear to many of these new groups. point is that these definitions came from the church long before protestants started seeking power and accusing each other of heresy.... but rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft after all.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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TEll me what the CC trent mean by this if your churchy is the true church!
"Catholic Catechism, par. 841
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 10/15/2009 16:20:47
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Originally posted by lacy-1
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Originally posted by mikejuli
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So the Catholic church is wrong and the Protestant churches are wrong? If so does that deny the Christ as the Son of God?, by the way you never use capitals when you speak of God! lacy-1
no.. .the catholic church is right and protestants have a lot right that they got from the catholics in the first place... and i don't use capitals at all... just lazy.
Michael, i alway's hear that the Protsetants got everything from the Catholics? Right? Well you are wrong, sorry to tell you this but the Protestants were Catholic's at one time to and knew all that stuff you are refering to and the Catholics always refere to. Where did the Protestants come from if not the church in England and Rome, they came to America to start their own religion and they did, now the Catholics followed them here to a land of milk and honey This is a Protestant country based on Protestant beliefs. lacy-1
AMEN! Lacy-1.
Shalom
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Originally posted by evangelist
TEll me what the CC trent mean by this if your churchy is the true church!
"Catholic Catechism, par. 841
one love
bro... just keep reading.... it seems pretty clear to me... i mean i know that you often hack the bible by taking verses out of context but don't start with the catechism too..
anyway since you asked me to do your homework for you..... again....
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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Originally posted by mikejuli
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Originally posted by evangelist
TEll me what the CC trent mean by this if your churchy is the true church!
"Catholic Catechism, par. 841
one love
bro... just keep reading.... it seems pretty clear to me... i mean i know that you often hack the bible by taking verses out of context but don't start with the catechism too..
anyway since you asked me to do your homework for you..... again....
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."
Now this is interesting, so the Catholic Church recognises the Protestants beliefs to be true? Is this in fact what i am seeing? Or did i take it out of context? Better still is it in contex? 843 PLease enlighten me as i am new. Thank you Mikejuli lacy-1
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well yes and no lacy.. the church is one. it's teachings are held true... if groups that are not "catholic" by name claim to know the same truth, the church certainly recognizes that it's still true.. for example protestants believe in the trinity, so we share that in common. protestants also hold that jesus died and rose again and that is true also.. some protestants though reject baptism and so we do not believe that is true. you need to check out the catechism i think a few paragraphs earlier... to see how the church considers those out of full communion.. the part above really isn't about protestants but the jews and muslim who also hold some of the same beliefs as we do... however the point is that the truth in these religions is preparing them for the gospel.. and are not really in the same boat as those who are baptized. hope that makes a little sense.. we recognize protestant beliefs that are true because they are beliefs they retained from the church.. that doesn't mean we believe all protestant beliefs are true... the catholic church is in a way exclusive for the is no salvation outside of the catholic church but.... but. that is not a denominational statement... what that means if anything is that the catholic church is something bigger than the roman rite or mere membership... it even contains some members that really don't like catholics.
i've probably confused you enough for now.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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I think this is actually about non-Christian religions.
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