Where is the true church?
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I have been told the Catholic church was the true church, i have been told the Baptist church was the true church, and so on, and so on, will the ral church please stand up! Give me the reason why please. Thank you very much. lacy-1
Freedom!
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This cannot be true?? What is the church trying to do? Compromise? their God or christ is Mohammod not the true Christ Jesus! I think the church thinks that if we all become one church Jesus will come faster in this hour(generation). Then that is the Great whore that sits on many waters and rules the world. That's scarry lacy-1
lesson 1 lacy... don't pay attention to evan... he has the ability to mis-comprehend just about everything.... and this is an excellent example... it's not saying that the church believes muslims are saved.... but that god does want to save them... just like the jews..
mike
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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Originally posted by evangelist
So a Muslim has salvation but Christians from other denominations don’t???
According to :
Catholic Catechism, par. 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims
NO! this is exactly why i don't believe you should be interpreting the bible... you are clueless to what your actually reading bro... anyway that is not what it says and as i pointed out already.... and told you to read on.... apparently you didn't or just didn't care.. please evan if you cannot be responsible to understand what your reading then you should just shut up... sorry that's so harsh but really bro... think before you type. your creating the smoke that others accuse of being fire and we're the ones that are once again left to clear up.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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Originally posted by mikejuli
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Originally posted by evangelist
So a Muslim has salvation but Christians from other denominations don�t???
According to :
Catholic Catechism, par. 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims
NO! this is exactly why i don't believe you should be interpreting the bible... you are clueless to what your actually reading bro... anyway that is not what it says and as i pointed out already.... and told you to read on.... apparently you didn't or just didn't care.. please evan if you cannot be responsible to understand what your reading then you should just shut up... sorry that's so harsh but really bro... think before you type. your creating the smoke that others accuse of being fire and we're the ones that are once again left to clear up.
 Mikejuli, God Bless you! lacy-1
Freedom!
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for evan... again.
notice this is just 2 verses down from 841... sad that you couldn't read that far.. but then i noticed that the anticatholic website that you let spoon feed you didn't either... or just didn't mention it because the truth isn't nearly as sensational as lying about catholics.
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332
please evan tell me that you get it this time... and please take responsibility and let everyone else you spread those lies to know that you totally were bearing false witness....
mike
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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I have seen it before Protestant who privately interpret not only the bible but also the Catechism of the Catholic Church which were both produced by the Catholic Church.
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so, michael, here's a question solely for you (a little off-subject) - if i read the bible as a non-catholic christian and it leads me to the RCC,should I be allowed to read the Catechism if I am not in RCIA?
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
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i would say let whoever wants to read the catechism read it... i did before i returned and it was good for me because it really cut all the anti catholic lies out of the way... it's a wonder i didn't just get the facts from those who are actually catholic in the first place instead of letting non catholics tell me what catholics beleive... the problem though is that i was looking for truth and willing to let that define me and not the other way around... the same book in the hands of someone just looking for trouble will only give them ammo... like the bible in the hands of an atheist who is just looking to attack faith.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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Originally posted by acumenCry
so, michael, here's a question solely for you (a little off-subject) - if i read the bible as a non-catholic christian and it leads me to the RCC,should I be allowed to read the Catechism if I am not in RCIA?
Yes anybody can read the bible & Catechism. But one can not interpret them however they want.
Using the bible or Catechism against the Catholic Church is like using a maintenance manual for a specific car to try to proove how not to do the maintenance on that specific car.
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quote:
Originally posted by lacy-1
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Originally posted by evangelist
So a Muslim has salvation but Christians from other denominations don�t???
According to :
Catholic Catechism, par. 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims
my source:
http://www.romancatholicteachings.com/catholic_catechism/catechism2.html
Maybe someone here has a infallible Catholic true church source about this CC trent 841, unless this has changed???
one love
Evangelist, Where did you get this? Was it a Catholic site? Also i was told they(Moslems and anyone who belives in God can be called Christians, We cannot change them They have their Mohomad and they are very strong in their beliefs. I changed from bAPTIST BACK TO Catholic and i could have stayed Baptist and i still would have fit in? Where are all the Catholic's??? Off on Saturday's? lacy-1
I got his from that link , but it should be quoted word for word in your CC trent par 841!
No muslim are muslim like JHW and mormons are mormons , satanist are what they they are , and a christian is a person who worship Christ love Jesus as their God , believe the trinity ,one faith and one Lord and the blood of Jesus and relationship which is the basic grounds and gospel of Christian anything outside that is not christian, but might be religious, but these people are going to hell with koran and bibles in their hands no matter how they call their gods or religons!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by lacy-1
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Originally posted by evangelist
If you really what a true church , then just accept Jesus who is Lord and you as being a church or a temple, will have the truth in you , the way, and the life of the true church which is the author and finisher of your faith in Christ Jesus , not a membership of some society or religious club at large!
Seek first the spiritual Kingdom of God and the rest will be a very good fruit in the natural and spiritual realm!
Lacy-1, is a church a society membership, or person to you, or a building?????
HI, I think like i have alway's thought that Jesus can live inside you and you should be able to take him all over with you Greater is he that is in me then he that is in the world. I am a member of 2 differn woman groups, and i am just me, my membership realy dosent mean mcuh if i am not there or if i don't feel like i belong But it dies show you are one body of people in a group that all agree in what you are doing for mankind.ETC That is what the church body consists of, one body, one mind, one spirit. I am not there yet cause i have some problems with a few laws. i know the Catholic church is the real church of Jesus Christ but he did not put these rules that the Vatican did, and i just wonder if they could be wrong? (In a few thing's) lacy-1
I am glad you are comparing the bible to what a CC is saying, and comparing the bible with a vatican philosophy!
You are on the right track Lacy-11
The bible say: prove all things, as meaning to judge them , and take the good and cast away the bad and deceptions!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I would remind you also, Lacy-1, that while invincible ignorance may protect many outside the Church, those who know that the Catholic Church is the True Church established by Christ are obligated to join her. Failure to do this is a very serious sin.
We are not free to shop around to find a church that fits with our own religious hang-ups or personal preferences. It is necessary that we belong to the church that we believe that Jesus established. Many non-Catholics have a different idea about what a church and so may be forgiven for not understanding the fullness of what Jesus meant.
Evangelist is right about one thing, the Church is not a building. The Church is the Body of Christ, made up of all of us. And the Head of the Church is Jesus Christ as our High Priest and King and perfect Victim. Under our High Priest is His servant the Pope and the Bishops, Presbyters (priests) and Deacons. Those that to not accept the lawful authority of those that Christ put in charge, are like the Gentiles in the outer court at the Temple of Jerusalem. They believe but cannot fully participate in Christ's Church.
There is much more to the Catholic Church than you seem to understand, but your recent posts from the Early Church Fathers might help you to at least understand the basics. Do nothing without the Bishop.
Ther church is not also about a membership as such!
The key to a real true church is the relationship with Christ one on one, and the rest will come into place after you have found the Kingdom of God first!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by lacy-1
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
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Originally posted by evangelist
So a Muslim has salvation but Christians from other denominations don�t???
According to :
Catholic Catechism, par. 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims
That is not what that says. Muslims may be saved, just as any other non-Catholics may be saved - by doing God's Will, not by being good "muslims" or good members of any other group. It is not the heresies that save, but the Truth where-ever it may be.
But I would not rely on any other religious tradition to save me. Muslims may be saved, but that is not a guarantee.
 Where ever it may be? It is in the church, the body of Christ, and if they don't agree with the church that Jesus is Lord and the Son of God then they are not saved, they serve a differnt god not the Father of Christ! lacy-1
Now you are preaching, and teaching a true message and a fact !
That is why if a RCC say they believe in the same God as Catholic , then something is wrong with your church infalliblity and truth as being some true church.
If the people of your church can see this heresy , and the leader don't then a person need to get out before they get led in error and decieved in a false teaching and belif!
AMEN! AMEN! Lacy!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Originally posted by lacy-1
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
It is not a crock, and yes they must confess Jesus as Lord before they may enter Heaven.
They also have a starting point from which this may become possible for them. The Catholic Church does not deny them hope of salvation, and it is up to Christ to bring them home to His Church.
That is the point Lasy, they can't get forgiven of their sin because they don't have a Jesus Christ to forgive them and that is what send every single muslim to hell no matter how much they pray or do also good works or terrorize non mulism with their terrorism, and non muslim hate as calling the church and other infidels!
Muhammed and all their leaders and people are going to hell along with all of mecca.
If a pope or your church support muslim as being yoke with them I would truly question your church Catholic infallibe teaching!!!
one love
This machine does not work for me, I am not arguing with you about if they confess that they believe in Jesus I just wanted to make a point that they shouldn't be considered as Christians until they do confess, just like i had to do and everyone else who loves the Lord and is Baptized into his church. By the By: Do they get baptized at all? How do they pay for their sins? lacy-1
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by lacy-1
Faith_ at_ Large, I have another question for you. In the first thread you mentioned that if you were divorced you could only remarry your first wife, now That to me is a sin more, because you did away with her so you copuld be with someone else, and then took her back ? So it was just to be with another and then you can come back? That is stupid! Also an annulment is not a divorce? But you can get remarried right? What do they give annulments for? I still disagree with having to be alone. I told you this before, that if someone does you wrong, and you have to divorce them, it is not right for you to ahve to pay and live like a widow if you are young Doesn'tPaul say if the woman is young she can get remarried? What if an older woman wants to also? She is differnt? NO that is strange and pregedist! I am trying to see this and believe but i cannot, but if the Pope siad it was oK it would be? Lets say there were no couples left? Some one would have to start it all over again,. so why not just let people do this? It isn't because God does not want it, it is because of man not wanting his wife any more, so he goes out and cheats.And it is the woman who has to forgive him? What 70x70? Bull! I almost had it today about abortion, i almost belived because of Psalms 139, and i saw what you were talking about. I was sick about child abuse and children having baby's at 10 years old etc. And dieing in child birth, it is wrong to pick the cherry's just because they are ripe, and it is wrong to insist a baby have a baby to. Those are a few i am having trouble with. And i get all mad and think the Catholic's are hard core! Can't help it. lacy-1
I would like to address some of these elements a little more in depth.
There has been a big deal made about women dying in child birth in developing countries and young girls being raped and giving a birth to babies. I have seen ignorant folks blame the Catholic Church for not allowing rapists to use condoms (as if they would) and forbidding abortions. But these folks often fail to look at the bigger picture.
It is not the job of the Catholic Church to mitigate the actions of sinners, but to help her flock to stop sinning and encourage others to do likewise.
For the many who die in child birth, the reason is often poor medical care - this is a situation that the Church has been involved with for many centuries and a responsibility that should be shared by all - to help make decent health care available to everyone who needs it. This is a better use of our resources than to just ship second rate condoms to problem areas or to assume that abortions will help (if childbirh is not safe, neither can abortions be done safely).
It is not right for a father to molest his daughters, and the solution is to teach him this and encourage right behaviour (this may also include legal options). Getting mad at the Church for not allowing the father to use condoms while he raped his daughters (yes some have done this) is to miss the bigger problem.
HIV/AIDS has become a huge problem in many areas because men and women are not following God's laws. In particular, some areas are very hard hit due to infidelity and rape as a normal course of their culture. The solution is not dump condoms or birth control pills or make abortions available to them. The better solution is to encourage them to live according to God's laws. Uganda has been using the A (abstinence) B (be faithful) C (condoms) approach for some time to great success. But the first two elements have been so much more successful that the "C" component may be dropped entirely.
There are plenty of secular organizations that are willing and able to encourage sinners and given them tools to further their sins by mitigating the negative earthly effects (in theory). But that is not the role of the Catholic Church. Nor should it be.
Children should be protected from predators, not just cleaned up after the fact. And abortions do not help anyone, including children.
Imagine a child who is pregnant by her father or anyone else - what is she to think if her guardian insists on her killing her own baby? Is that not a punishment on top of a crime against her? Pregnancy, while never hoped for in this case, can be a time of healing and a means of exposing the perpetrator.
Planned Parenthood has gotten into trouble for covering up cases of child molesting by performing abortions on young girls and not reporting them to keep the perpetrator from being exposed (actually for the money, but the effect was the same). Repeat business was apparently too good to pass up. I expect that in most cases, the one insisting that a pregnant child have an abortion is the one who got her in that position in the first place, or would be embarrassed if the neighbours found out.
It is the child who must be considered and protected in all cases.
There is an organization today that is speaking out against abortions for victims of rape or incest. Silent No More is a group of victims who regret their abortions that resulted from these crimes, and feel that they were coerced into having abortions by others who did not want to deal with the circumstances of the pregnancies.
Abortions do not help victims of rape or incest, but keeping the lines of communication open and remembering who the real victims are, can be very therapeutic.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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