what is the gospel to Catholic; the power of God?
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PM
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Accepting Jesus as your Savior with the belief that you are now going to abide by a certain set of rules, or exchange one set for another, is not the good news. Why? Because it still depends upon your performance. And I can guarantee you that the devil will make sure you know that your performance is not quite good enough. He is the accuser of the brethren (Rev. 12:10).The truth that makes the Gospel the “nearly-too-good-to-be-true news” is that we are accepted by God through what Jesus did for us. The revelation of God’s grace will deliver you from a performance mentality to a total trust and reliance upon the Lord. Salvation is all about God’s faithfulness, not ours! This is foundational for maintaining a close relationship with God and receiving all the benefits of your salvation. Romans 1:16-17 says, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.” The book of Romans communicates that the Gospel is the power of God. It’s what produces the life of God in people. However, the word Gospel has become a religious term that has lost a lot of its meaning today. Many people associate “Gospel” with anything that has to do with religion, specifically the Christian religion. But “Gospel” literally means “good tidings,” or “good news.”The Greek word euaggelion, which was translated “gospel” in seventy-four New Testament verses, was so rare in writings outside of the New Testament that it’s only found twice in extra-biblical manuscripts. The reason for this is because this word not only meant “good news,” but was actually describing “nearly-too-good-to-be-true news.” Much of “Christian culture” today associates the Gospel with these statements: “You’re a sinner. If you don’t repent, you’re going to hell.” Now, these are true statements. There is a heaven and a hell, a God and a devil, and you will go to hell if you don’t repent and receive salvation, but even though all of that is truth, it’s not “good news.” It’s not “the Gospel.”
As a matter of fact, it’s the complete opposite of what Paul was teaching. Roman 2:4 says it’s the goodness of God that leads us to repentance, not judgment and condemnation. That is what Paul was talking about, and that is “good news.” The Gospel is directly related to the grace of God. That’s the only way this forgiveness of our sins can be obtained. It isn’t through our holiness or good works. God doesn’t take the “good” people and save them; He justifies (extends salvation toward) the ungodly (Rom. 4:5).
This causes many problems for religious people. They say, “Wait a minute! I believe you must do this and that to be holy.” Religion—false religion, man’s concepts—teaches that right standing with God and His blessings come as a result of our own goodness and works. Religious teachers say, “You must come to our church. You must pay your tithes, read your Bible, and pray more, to mention a few. Then, if you do all these things just right, God will accept you.” That’s anti-Gospel! It’s against the “good news” of God’s grace because it’s putting the burden of salvation on your back—and you can’t bear it. Nobody can save themselves.That’s basically the false “Gospel” that religion preaches today. They may talk about the one true God and use terminology like “God the Father.” They may even mention that Jesus is the Savior of the world who died for our sins. But at its core, it’s another “Gospel”—which is no Gospel at all (Gal. 1:7).The Gospel isn’t only the belief in salvation, but it’s also the understanding of the means by which this salvation is obtained. “If you’ll act good and do good, then you’ll be good” isn’t the true Gospel. Notice what Paul said while addressing the very first ministers’ conference at Ephesus: “But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God” (Acts 20:24). Another way Paul could have said this is, “I am testifying of the Gospel—which is the good news of the grace of God.” The words “Gospel” and “grace” are terms that can be used interchangeably. The good news—or Gospel—is the grace of God.Even the word salvation is misunderstood. Evangelical Christianity says that salvation is a one-time occurrence, an experience when your sins are forgiven. That’s true, there is a moment when you pass from death to life, but that is not all that happens. It’s an incomplete definition. Salvation isn’t limited to the initial born-again experience. Salvation is everything Jesus purchased for us through the atonement. Sozo, the Greek word from which “salvation” was translated means more than forgiveness of sin; it also means healing, deliverance, and prosperity. It’s a word that summarizes everything that Jesus provided for us through His death, burial, and resurrection.James 5:14-15 vividly illustrates how salvation includes both healing and forgiveness of sin: “Is any sick among you? let him call for this elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save [sozo] the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him” (brackets mine). Salvation is a package deal and it’s all accomplished by the grace of God, not our works. However, Satan is always trying to deceive us. He is the one who wants us to believe we must earn things from God. He is the one causing us to doubt the Lord’s willingness to use His ability on our behalf, and unfortunately, the church is often reinforcing that belief.
I’ve had many believers come up to me in the prayer lines asking, “Why am I not healed? I’ve fasted, prayed, and studied the Word. I pay my tithes and go to church. I’m doing the best I can. What does God demand?” When I hear that, they have just given me the answer to their question. They aren’t pointing to what Jesus did; they are pointing to what they have done, and that always leads to failure. Most people believe that God moves in their lives proportional to their performance. That was the error Paul was dealing with in the book of Romans. When Paul came along and said “I’m not ashamed of the Gospel!” he was saying “I am not ashamed to tell people about the goodness, grace, and mercy of God. The Lord loves us in spite of who we are and what we’ve done.” Now that’s “good news!” The religious folks of Paul’s day thought this was terrible. They believed what he was preaching was heresy. People needed to recognize and relate to God based on how sorry they were. God wasn’t happy with them or the way they were acting. They were just worms in His sight. Sound familiar?On the surface it looks like a humble position. In reality, it’s actually making a person’s relationship with God dependent on self. “Look what I have done for the Lord, how holy I’ve been, and how much I’ve denied myself.” This is actually a very self-centered, self-dependent way of approaching God that never produces any fruit in your life.Religion wants to make sure that people know they are sinners and on their way to hell. However, the truth is that they already know that.Romans 1:18-19 says, “For the wrath of God is revealed [not going to be, but already is revealed] from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath [past tense] shewed it unto them” (brackets mine). God’s wrath has already been revealed intuitively inside of every person. Each individual has within them the knowledge of God’s wrath against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. So when someone wonders If I just tell people about the goodness of God, what will make them understand that they are sinners in need of salvation? Paul’s answer was that they already knew. In their hearts, people already know that they aren’t good, but sinners in need of salvation. The point is that you don’t have to bombard people with the fact that they are sinners; deep in their hearts they already know. You may need to spend some time on that issue in order to make your point and strike that chord in their hearts, but not by condemning them and restricting them to religious dos and don’ts. Paul was saying, “That’s not the true approach.” It’s the Gospel—the nearly-too-good-to-be-true news that God has provided. It’s salvation for us by grace that empowers men to receive the forgiveness of their sins, the healing of their bodies, the deliverance from Satan’s oppression, and more. We don’t need to convince people they are sinners; we need to show them the way out. That’s the Gospel!my source: http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/grace_powerAudio http://www.awmi.net/extra/audio/1014So the question is how is the Catholic gospel compare to this too good news of the gospel, is it the same or different ,and in what ways?? one love I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 10/13/2009 17:09:12
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PM
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Location: Canada
The first problem is that you ignore the fact that the Gospel is contained with in the Gospels. The rest is commentary.
If you persist in ignoring the bulk of what was written in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, then none of what Paul wrote is worth anything. Paul's epistles lack context without the Gospel accounts.
There is a reason why we have The Gospel According to Matthew (and Mark, Luke, and John). What they give us IS the GOSPEL of Christ.
quote:
James 5:14-15 vividly illustrates how salvation includes both healing and forgiveness of sin:
“Is any sick among you? let him call for this elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save [sozo] the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him” (brackets mine).
Amen. James is writing to born-again Christians and giving them instructions. When someone is sick among them, they are to call the elders of the church who will pray over them, anoint them, and this will save them and cause their sins to be forgiven.
This is the Sacrament known as the Anointing of the Sick. It is common practice with in the Catholic Church.
If your view was correct, then why would they need to be "saved" again? They had already come to Christ, already been baptized and received the Holy Ghost within them, already had their sins forgiven.
This very passage proves that your views are wrong. But it beautifully demonstrates the Grace that is operating within the Catholic Church and why it is needed.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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PM
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But I will give you this. To ask the question of what the Gospel is to a Catholic, is to gain a better insight that to simply make assumptions. I want to address a few other issues first, on some of the other threads, and then I hope to come back and give a proper answer to this question.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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PM
Member since 06/26/2002
what is the gospel to a catholic... christ has died, christ has risen and christ will come again.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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PM
Member since 07/28/2009
Location: USA
Good job evangelist!! the universal church is made up of everyone who has received Christ as saviour, not in their mind, but an actual reception of the Holy Spirit..thats why Peter preached at Pentecost to repent and receive the GIFT of the Holy Spirit...the BODY OF CHRIST needs no membership in any earthly organization to be saved...i believe there are many believers who are catholic, baptist, church of God, etc...also i believe many of the members are lost and not attached to Christ...as ive said before, we cant trust membership in any religion or earthly church to save us...whether we come to Christ before or after we fellowship in a church, we should be coming to church to minister to others and be ministered to...the hand doesnt say to the foot, i dont need you..we are all members of the body and to grow through experience and fellowship we need each other....BUT NOT FOR THE SAKE OF SALVATION....but for the good of each other...a true team effort....all the glory and honor to God for our salvation..there is no more sacrifice for sin...IT IS FINISHED!
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PM
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Location: United Kingdom
What do you mean by 'receive the Holy Spirit'?
Please, don't come out with some meaningless mummble such as ' to be filled with the life of God', 'cos unless you can walk on water...change water into wine, etc, then you clearly don't have that!
So what do you have, and how do you know you've got it?
Ad Maioram Dei Gloriam
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PM
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do you believe the book of Acts?...read Peter's sermon to all of Israel.. you should read that and make a decision for yourself!...Peter himself, who witnessed hundreds of miracle, but yet denied Christ even to a young defenseless girl after Jesus was arrested...yet, when he received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, he preached boldly to all of Israel without fear...so the difference of Peter with and without the Holy Spirit is obvious..no wonder Jesus said "you must be born again".
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PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
The first problem is that you ignore the fact that the Gospel is contained with in the Gospels. The rest is commentary.
If you persist in ignoring the bulk of what was written in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, then none of what Paul wrote is worth anything. Paul's epistles lack context without the Gospel accounts.
There is a reason why we have The Gospel According to Matthew (and Mark, Luke, and John). What they give us IS the GOSPEL of Christ.
quote:
James 5:14-15 vividly illustrates how salvation includes both healing and forgiveness of sin:
“Is any sick among you? let him call for this elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save [sozo] the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him” (brackets mine).
Amen. James is writing to born-again Christians and giving them instructions. When someone is sick among them, they are to call the elders of the church who will pray over them, anoint them, and this will save them and cause their sins to be forgiven.
This is the Sacrament known as the Anointing of the Sick. It is common practice with in the Catholic Church.
If your view was correct, then why would they need to be "saved" again? They had already come to Christ, already been baptized and received the Holy Ghost within them, already had their sins forgiven.
This very passage proves that your views are wrong. But it beautifully demonstrates the Grace that is operating within the Catholic Church and why it is needed.
The whole too good news of the gospel is that we already are forgiven, and we already are healed, we just have to recieve this truth, and that is what many don't do so they remain sick and remain a sinner!
The gospel you mention in those book is about Jesus , and the proof and covenant He set for us to be saved born again , and healed past tence!
The old testament was all about condition works and self righteousness, and merits and performance basically without the knowledge of what is said Jesus sis as evidence in Matt -John.
This proof that the RCC has not a good cospel is found in your purgatory and penance!
That is why you are not sure of your salvation, and must go under a work religious sxstem to earn and qualify on your own to get saved, even if the work has to include a work of water baptism, repenting request or begging which you call prayers, and eating Jesus litterally over and over and over again in some eucharist to show you are doing something, which is all work, (that is not the too good gospel Paul taught)!
Paul had so much of the revelation of the too good gospel that he sang in jail and was so ful of joy from it he did want to leave the jail cell to break the praise the loving God for what Jesus has already done.
He was free in his spirit, while we are slaves to our religion and traditions, and rituals.
That why the author or wommack said a truth:
quote:
Religious teachers say, “You must come to our church. You must pay your tithes, read your Bible, and pray more, to mention a few. Then, if you do all these things just right, God will accept you.” That’s anti-Gospel! It’s against the “good news” of God’s grace because it’s putting the burden of salvation on your back—and you can’t bear it. Nobody can save themselves.
That’s basically the false “Gospel” that religion preaches today. They may talk about the one true God and use terminology like “God the Father.” They may even mention that Jesus is the Savior of the world who died for our sins. But at its core, it’s another “Gospel”—which is no Gospel at all (Gal. 1:7).
The Gospel isn’t only the belief in salvation, but it’s also the understanding of the means by which this salvation is obtained. “If you’ll act good and do good, then you’ll be good” isn’t the true Gospel. Notice what Paul said while addressing the very first ministers’ conference at Ephesus:
“But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God” (Acts 20:24).
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
But I will give you this. To ask the question of what the Gospel is to a Catholic, is to gain a better insight that to simply make assumptions. I want to address a few other issues first, on some of the other threads, and then I hope to come back and give a proper answer to this question.
I don't think you can give an answer to the too good gospel Paul taught VS the Catholic gospel which will turn out depressive and not good news at all!
But I'll be patience on this one because you have alot of philosophy to be droped to match what Wommack is teaching and study and researched for years and years also with me and thousands of other evangelists.
But I must be honest this too good news is not taught also in my churchy and other non Catholic church as well, which is a shame and that is why many are running from the church and not to any church.
Lacy-1 is a good observation of this truth.
I hope she comes here and give ger honest views and you will see for yourself the RCC has nothing to really offer!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
what is the gospel to a catholic... christ has died, christ has risen and christ will come again.
That is all??
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by thunderson
Good job evangelist!! the universal church is made up of everyone who has received Christ as saviour, not in their mind, but an actual reception of the Holy Spirit..thats why Peter preached at Pentecost to repent and receive the GIFT of the Holy Spirit...the BODY OF CHRIST needs no membership in any earthly organization to be saved...i believe there are many believers who are catholic, baptist, church of God, etc...also i believe many of the members are lost and not attached to Christ...as ive said before, we cant trust membership in any religion or earthly church to save us...whether we come to Christ before or after we fellowship in a church, we should be coming to church to minister to others and be ministered to...the hand doesnt say to the foot, i dont need you..we are all members of the body and to grow through experience and fellowship we need each other....BUT NOT FOR THE SAKE OF SALVATION....but for the good of each other...a true team effort....all the glory and honor to God for our salvation..there is no more sacrifice for sin...IT IS FINISHED!
Thanks Thunderson!
Awesome!
BTW welcome to the board!
Shalom
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by philial
What do you mean by 'receive the Holy Spirit'?
Please, don't come out with some meaningless mummble such as ' to be filled with the life of God', 'cos unless you can walk on water...change water into wine, etc, then you clearly don't have that!
So what do you have, and how do you know you've got it?
Let me give a scripture to this post!
Joh:14:12: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh:14:13: And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh:14:14: If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
take your interpretaion how you want it!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 06/26/2002
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
what is the gospel to a catholic... christ has died, christ has risen and christ will come again.
That is all??
what do you mean is that all... are you expecting riches and a leer jet? our gospel is all jesus. he died for us he rose for us and will come again for us... salvation restoration and redemption.... are you not content with what christ accoplished on the cross or are you after more? i know that it's hard to just have a true gospel without all the flair but that would then be a "jesus and" gospel... wouldn't it. all i can say is that i am truly satisfied with just that... in all my being.
mike
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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Contact:
PM
Member since 06/26/2002
quote:
Originally posted by thunderson
Good job evangelist!! the universal church is made up of everyone who has received Christ as saviour, not in their mind, but an actual reception of the Holy Spirit..thats why Peter preached at Pentecost to repent and receive the GIFT of the Holy Spirit...the BODY OF CHRIST needs no membership in any earthly organization to be saved.
that's true but not an issue for the catholic church whose name means universal church... it is not a denomination so you cannot compare it to how denominations approach this problem... for the catholic our church is complete... it contains all true christians... even if they be baptists.... when we say no salvation outside of the catholic church we don't mean anything about having a membership card...
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..i believe there are many believers who are catholic, baptist, church of God, etc...also i believe many of the members are lost and not attached to Christ...as ive said before, we cant trust membership in any religion or earthly church to save us...whether we come to Christ before or after we fellowship in a church, we should be coming to church to minister to others and be ministered to...the hand doesnt say to the foot, i dont need you..we are all members of the body and to grow through experience and fellowship we need each other....BUT NOT FOR THE SAKE OF SALVATION....but for the good of each other...a true team effort....all the glory and honor to God for our salvation..there is no more sacrifice for sin...IT IS FINISHED!
i really cannot disagree with much here other than your angle... i mean this is what the church has always been about... but then some separated from it and created a mess called denominations with memebership and it's just not really fair to apply their errors to something that existed before the denominations. it happens because of ignorance but it shouldn't.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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PM
Member since 06/26/2002
quote:
I don't think you can give an answer to the too good gospel Paul taught VS the Catholic gospel which will turn out depressive and not good news at all!
actually the gospel that paul taught is the same as the catholic gospel evan... why do you find that depressive? do you really need the ear tickling? the get rich jesus plan? the jesus wan't you to have power plan? remember evan i was a charismatic in my non catholic day so i know all about that manipulation and just how fake many of those christians really are. when the going gets tough then they get going because their gospel is nothing but fluff and really wasn't too good to be true after all... but then falsehood could never be true... could it?
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But I'll be patience on this one because you have alot of philosophy to be droped to match what Wommack is teaching and study and researched for years and years also with me and thousands of other evangelists.
so you are really after the womack churchy society? hee hee? is he your daddy? please evan... my stomach hurts... it never fails to amuse me how non catholics put that sour look on their faces as they crab about priests or the pope, yet are so ready send all their money to benny hinn or womack and never raise a bit of concern over those traditions of mere men without the safequard of the church. you really are your worst enemy because you lack consistency and that just shows that it all comes down to you defining what you will or will not accept about god.... you have made him into your own image. and yes i know that is harsh but that is really what you are doing my friend.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
what is the gospel to a catholic... christ has died, christ has risen and christ will come again.
That is all??
what do you mean is that all... are you expecting riches and a leer jet? our gospel is all jesus. he died for us he rose for us and will come again for us... salvation restoration and redemption.... are you not content with what christ accoplished on the cross or are you after more? i know that it's hard to just have a true gospel without all the flair but that would then be a "jesus and" gospel... wouldn't it. all i can say is that i am truly satisfied with just that... in all my being.
mike
The main thing which you left out is the most important part is my relationship I have with Jesus and I am free from all sins to go directly to Jesus 24/7 with no condemnation in Jesus , to just say I love Him and He is first in my life even if I had nothing else.
I love to minister to God and be able to sit in His arms and say Your a good God, a awesome Lord!
Jesus death and resurrection just broke the wall and set the bridge to be able to go directly to God boldly as a Child, in one love.
That is to me the best eternal life I have now and forever more Mike unconditionally!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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