what is the gospel to Catholic; the power of God?
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Accepting Jesus as your Savior with the belief that you are now going to abide by a certain set of rules, or exchange one set for another, is not the good news. Why? Because it still depends upon your performance. And I can guarantee you that the devil will make sure you more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 10/13/2009 17:09:12
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read your second paragraph evan.... that is my answer to your first paragraph. and that brings us right back to my statement. look deep relationship wasn't ivented by evangelicals... they just made it kind of gay... but they have rarely has as deep a relationship as you will find in the writings of many saints and most catholics who practice their faith. even still we know that is all a result of the gospel otherwise the gospel would be perverted into a "me me me" religion. the most important part is always jesus and you can take that from a catholic.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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Fifth Member
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Since I know you are looking for differences between what we consider part of the Gospel that you do not.
Well, here is part of the Gospel that "evangelicals" skip right over. You'll never find it in their books about justification or salvation, yet it is the chapter just prior to one of their proof chapters for Faith Alone which is no where found in the bible. When they are pressed they will say this is for the Jews only, but the text says it is about the Jew and the Greek (v. 9-11). Then as a last ditch effort they say it is a hypothetical text because we all know that no one can obey the law. Actually the law spoken of here is the Law of Christ (v. 15); the law written on the heart which is a prophecy of the New Covenant by Jeremiah and Ezekiel.
Rom 2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, whoever you are, when you judge another; for in passing judgment upon him you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things.
Rom 2:2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who do such things.
Rom 2:3 Do you suppose, O man, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
Rom 2:6 For he will render to every man according to his works:
Rom 2:7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
Rom 2:8 but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.
Rom 2:9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek,
Rom 2:10 but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.
Rom 2:11 For God shows no partiality.
Rom 2:12 All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
Rom 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.
Rom 2:14 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Rom 2:15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them
Rom 2:16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Paul says that this is part of his gospel, but it certainly isn't part of the antinomian evangelical gospel. I'm sure there are some Protestants that don't ignore Romans 2. I would guess that Arminians and certain Anglicans and a few others have no problem with it.
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
read your second paragraph evan.... that is my answer to your first paragraph. and that brings us right back to my statement. look deep relationship wasn't ivented by evangelicals... they just made it kind of gay... but they have rarely has as deep a relationship as you will find in the writings of many saints and most catholics who practice their faith. even still we know that is all a result of the gospel otherwise the gospel would be perverted into a "me me me" religion. the most important part is always jesus and you can take that from a catholic.
JA;JA MIKE!
You still make me laugh most the time on how your religion boast!
Maybe I should have made the topic :
What is the religion of Catholic compared to the good gospel the power of God??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 10/15/2009 16:35:26
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quote:
Originally posted by jdubya
Since I know you are looking for differences between what we consider part of the Gospel that you do not.
Well, here is part of the Gospel that "evangelicals" skip right over. You'll never find it in their books about justification or salvation, yet it is the chapter just prior to one of their proof chapters for Faith Alone which is no where found in the bible. When they are pressed they will say this is for the Jews only, but the text says it is about the Jew and the Greek (v. 9-11). Then as a last ditch effort they say it is a hypothetical text because we all know that no one can obey the law. Actually the law spoken of here is the Law of Christ (v. 15); the law written on the heart which is a prophecy of the New Covenant by Jeremiah and Ezekiel.
Rom 2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, whoever you are, when you judge another; for in passing judgment upon him you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things.
Rom 2:2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who do such things.
Rom 2:3 Do you suppose, O man, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
Rom 2:6 For he will render to every man according to his works:
Rom 2:7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
Rom 2:8 but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.
Rom 2:9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek,
Rom 2:10 but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.
Rom 2:11 For God shows no partiality.
Rom 2:12 All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
Rom 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.
Rom 2:14 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Rom 2:15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them
Rom 2:16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Paul says that this is part of his gospel, but it certainly isn't part of the antinomian evangelical gospel. I'm sure there are some Protestants that don't ignore Romans 2. I would guess that Arminians and certain Anglicans and a few others have no problem with it.
Leviticus 19:17 says,
“Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.”
It’s sin not to speak the truth to Catholics. It’s not loving them. It’s loving ourselves and avoiding the persecution that will surely come our way for taking a stand.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
quote:
JA;JA MIKE!
You still make me laugh most the time on how your religion boast!
glad i can still make you laugh... but what boast?
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Maybe I should have made the topic :
What is the religion of Catholic compared to the good gospel the power of God??
one love
i'd be more interested in how you would hack the religion of clarmont moore to the good gospel, the power of god. the catholic faith is the result of the gospel and gods power... but c moore seems to be a little light in the spiritual loafers if you know what i mean... he serves too many masters and his gospel seems to be a gospel of trying to prove the church wrong... when it should be something simple like christ has died, christ is risin, christ will come again.
 HI Mikejuli, and Evangelist, I just wanted to say that i have seen this before and it is good to be able to prove your point expecialy about the church and it's authentisity, where, and who, gave the message and why it is valuable to church teachings. That is why i came here to dispute, ask questions, compare, single out and approve or disaprove. This is where to go, but i need to know Where the hell is everyone? This place needs more publicity, more oppinions, more denominations. Or are there more??? lacy-1
Freedom!
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haha... lacy, if you want more denominations to debate and discuss on this forum, then you are at the wrong place (unless you can bring a challenge to the table). Don't get me wrong, I love this forum - it's the only one I visit... and non-Catholics are always graciously welcomed by all of speroforum's members... but most don't last long.
I have been on here for a couple of years now, and I have seen Protestants come and go... then come back for more... and leave again. Few have stayed, Evangelist being one. Others have come and have converted to the Catholic faith. It's truly amazing to see people of one accord (just as our Lord asked of us). They are so precise on both Scripture and theology and apparently prove SolaScripture to be a fallacy.
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
[quote] Leviticus 19:17 says,
“Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.”
It’s sin not to speak the truth to Catholics. It’s not loving them. It’s loving ourselves and avoiding the persecution that will surely come our way for taking a stand.
Heh?
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
But I will give you this. To ask the question of what the Gospel is to a Catholic, is to gain a better insight that to simply make assumptions. I want to address a few other issues first, on some of the other threads, and then I hope to come back and give a proper answer to this question.
I don't think you can give an answer to the too good gospel Paul taught VS the Catholic gospel which will turn out depressive and not good news at all!
But I'll be patience on this one because you have alot of philosophy to be droped to match what Wommack is teaching and study and researched for years and years also with me and thousands of other evangelists.
But I must be honest this too good news is not taught also in my churchy and other non Catholic church as well, which is a shame and that is why many are running from the church and not to any church.
Lacy-1 is a good observation of this truth.
I hope she comes here and give ger honest views and you will see for yourself the RCC has nothing to really offer!
one love
Evangelist, why do I need to drop my Bible-based doctrines in order to match Wommack's teaching?
You keep saying that you don't think that Wommack is your Pope, but you keep acting like he is. In fact, you give Wommack greater authority than any Pope. Our Pope's cannot countermand the scriptures, and yet Wommack does so without any care at all. Why do you think that Andrew Wommack knows better than what is in the Bible?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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quote:
Originally posted by thunderson
do you believe the book of Acts?...read Peter's sermon to all of Israel.. you should read that and make a decision for yourself!...Peter himself, who witnessed hundreds of miracle, but yet denied Christ even to a young defenseless girl after Jesus was arrested...yet, when he received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, he preached boldly to all of Israel without fear...so the difference of Peter with and without the Holy Spirit is obvious..no wonder Jesus said "you must be born again".
We have probably all read the Book of Acts. In its entirety, which is why we hold a slightly different view of it than some.
Acts 8:14-17 "14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."
Even at Pentecost, the Holy Ghost only came down upon those who who had been previously baptized in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
You are 100% correct. We must be born again, and this happens when we are baptized into Christ.
See Paul in Romans 6:
Romans 6:3-6 "3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
What did Jesus command His Apostles to do before He went back to Heaven?
Matthew 28:18-20 "18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
We do not baptize ourselves, nor do we wait for Jesus to do it - Jesus sent His Apostles to do it. See Acts 19 for another example that shows that belief does not bring the Holy Spirit, but baptism and the hand of a member of the presbyterate does.
Of course Acts is filled with so many important details that should never be forgotten, and yet sadly so much of it is completely ignored today.
See especially Acts 14:22-23. We were not left to our own devices as many seem to assume.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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quote:
Originally posted by lacy-1
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
quote:
JA;JA MIKE!
You still make me laugh most the time on how your religion boast!
glad i can still make you laugh... but what boast?
quote:
Maybe I should have made the topic :
What is the religion of Catholic compared to the good gospel the power of God??
one love
i'd be more interested in how you would hack the religion of clarmont moore to the good gospel, the power of god. the catholic faith is the result of the gospel and gods power... but c moore seems to be a little light in the spiritual loafers if you know what i mean... he serves too many masters and his gospel seems to be a gospel of trying to prove the church wrong... when it should be something simple like christ has died, christ is risin, christ will come again.
HI Mikejuli, and Evangelist, I just wanted to say that i have seen this before and it is good to be able to prove your point expecialy about the church and it's authentisity, where, and who, gave the message and why it is valuable to church teachings. That is why i came here to dispute, ask questions, compare, single out and approve or disaprove. This is where to go, but i need to know Where the hell is everyone? This place needs more publicity, more oppinions, more denominations. Or are there more??? lacy-1
Just stick around Lacy-1 that religous spirits  will manifest one by one again!
Shalom
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Member since 07/10/2003
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quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
haha... lacy, if you want more denominations to debate and discuss on this forum, then you are at the wrong place (unless you can bring a challenge to the table). Don't get me wrong, I love this forum - it's the only one I visit... and non-Catholics are always graciously welcomed by all of speroforum's members... but most don't last long.
I have been on here for a couple of years now, and I have seen Protestants come and go... then come back for more... and leave again. Few have stayed, Evangelist being one. Others have come and have converted to the Catholic faith. It's truly amazing to see people of one accord (just as our Lord asked of us). They are so precise on both Scripture and theology and apparently prove SolaScripture to be a fallacy.
With over 8000 posts , just call be grand papa Evangelist.
Yes i think I am the oldest non Catholic here so far!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
But I will give you this. To ask the question of what the Gospel is to a Catholic, is to gain a better insight that to simply make assumptions. I want to address a few other issues first, on some of the other threads, and then I hope to come back and give a proper answer to this question.
I don't think you can give an answer to the too good gospel Paul taught VS the Catholic gospel which will turn out depressive and not good news at all!
But I'll be patience on this one because you have alot of philosophy to be droped to match what Wommack is teaching and study and researched for years and years also with me and thousands of other evangelists.
But I must be honest this too good news is not taught also in my churchy and other non Catholic church as well, which is a shame and that is why many are running from the church and not to any church.
Lacy-1 is a good observation of this truth.
I hope she comes here and give ger honest views and you will see for yourself the RCC has nothing to really offer!
one love
Evangelist, why do I need to drop my Bible-based doctrines in order to match Wommack's teaching?
You keep saying that you don't think that Wommack is your Pope, but you keep acting like he is. In fact, you give Wommack greater authority than any Pope. Our Pope's cannot countermand the scriptures, and yet Wommack does so without any care at all. Why do you think that Andrew Wommack knows better than what is in the Bible?
He is doing more than the catholics I know and has a better witness and effect of the bible.
How many people have you seen get healed by your prayers , or how many people did you raise from the dead and how many people did you cast out demons, and how many people have you witness to world wide tv and radio, conferences and church coventions???
I would ask this about your pope but I don't want to embarrance him!lol
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Much of “Christian culture” today associates the Gospel with these statements: “You’re a sinner. If you don’t repent, you’re going to hell.” Now, these are true statements. There is a heaven and a hell, a God and a devil, and you will go to hell if you don’t repent and receive salvation, but even though all of that is truth, it’s not “good news.” It’s not “the Gospel.”
As a matter of fact, it’s the complete opposite of what Paul was teaching. Roman 2:4 says it’s the goodness of God that leads us to repentance, not judgment and condemnation. That is what Paul was talking about, and that is “good news.”
The Gospel is directly related to the grace of God. That’s the only way this forgiveness of our sins can be obtained. It isn’t through our holiness or good works. God doesn’t take the “good” people and save them; He justifies (extends salvation toward) the ungodly (Rom. 4:5).
This causes many problems for religious people. They say, “Wait a minute! I believe you must do this and that to be holy.” Religion—false religion, man’s concepts—teaches that right standing with God and His blessings come as a result of our own goodness and works.
This is a radical statement but so true:
The Gospel isn’t only the belief in salvation, but it’s also the understanding of the means by which this salvation is obtained. “If you’ll act good and do good, then you’ll be good” isn’t the true Gospel. Notice what Paul said while addressing the very first ministers’ conference at Ephesus:
“But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God” (Acts 20:24).
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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