what is the gospel to Catholic; the power of God?
-
-
First Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
Accepting Jesus as your Savior with the belief that you are now going to abide by a certain set of rules, or exchange one set for another, is not the good news. Why? Because it still depends upon your performance. And I can guarantee you that the devil will make sure you more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 10/13/2009 17:09:12
-
-
Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 01/17/2007
Location: USA
Is this all your own writing?
The grace of God is supposed to lead us to repentance. That requires that we respond to His grace and actually repent. True for Jew and Greek and believer and non-believer alike. The problem is that some, even many, receive the grace of God in vain and don't repent. Those who believe in eternal security have the greatest motivation for not doing so, because they presume upon His grace that they have already been forgiven.
You have only responded to half of verse 4. Let's look at the whole verse.
Rom 2:4 Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
Look at 2:4a? Do you presume upon the grace of God to cover your hypocrisy when you judge others and you do the same thing you are judging them for? This is a rhetorical question and Paul's answer is clearly NO.
You say you don't go by faith alone, but the way you speak of works, who would know any different?
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
But I will give you this. To ask the question of what the Gospel is to a Catholic, is to gain a better insight that to simply make assumptions. I want to address a few other issues first, on some of the other threads, and then I hope to come back and give a proper answer to this question.
I don't think you can give an answer to the too good gospel Paul taught VS the Catholic gospel which will turn out depressive and not good news at all!
But I'll be patience on this one because you have alot of philosophy to be droped to match what Wommack is teaching and study and researched for years and years also with me and thousands of other evangelists.
But I must be honest this too good news is not taught also in my churchy and other non Catholic church as well, which is a shame and that is why many are running from the church and not to any church.
Lacy-1 is a good observation of this truth.
I hope she comes here and give ger honest views and you will see for yourself the RCC has nothing to really offer!
one love
Evangelist, why do I need to drop my Bible-based doctrines in order to match Wommack's teaching?
You keep saying that you don't think that Wommack is your Pope, but you keep acting like he is. In fact, you give Wommack greater authority than any Pope. Our Pope's cannot countermand the scriptures, and yet Wommack does so without any care at all. Why do you think that Andrew Wommack knows better than what is in the Bible?
He is doing more than the catholics I know and has a better witness and effect of the bible.
How many people have you seen get healed by your prayers , or how many people did you raise from the dead and how many people did you cast out demons, and how many people have you witness to world wide tv and radio, conferences and church coventions???
I would ask this about your pope but I don't want to embarrance him!lol
one love
In my Church, many have been genuinely healed. A priest in my Grandmother's Church was an authentic healer, unlike many you have boasted about. Those he cured remained cured.
Wommack has not actually raised anyone from the dead. His son was in a drug induced coma and survived - it happens. Perhaps his prayers helped, they certainly help in my Church, but many a drug addict has done the same thing without a Christian father interceding for him or her. Many more just die.
The Devil can perform miracles of his own, and Wommack's teachings do not line up with the scriptures. For this very reason, I can only assume that if any miracles are being performed, it is not with God's help, but Satan's.
Matthew 7:21-23 "21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Casting out demons or performing wonderful works including healings and other apparent miracles, are also the machinations of the Devil. It comes down to the teachings. If they are led by the Spirit of God, they will not be teaching heresy or otherwise misrepresent the scriptures.
I firmly believe in miracles. Too many have genuinely occurred in my Church to deny this. But, the Bible warns us to not be deceived by miracles. They can certainly follow men of God, but not necessarily.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by jdubya
Is this all your own writing?
The grace of God is supposed to lead us to repentance. That requires that we respond to His grace and actually repent. True for Jew and Greek and believer and non-believer alike. The problem is that some, even many, receive the grace of God in vain and don't repent. Those who believe in eternal security have the greatest motivation for not doing so, because they presume upon His grace that they have already been forgiven.
You have only responded to half of verse 4. Let's look at the whole verse.
Rom 2:4 Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
Look at 2:4a? Do you presume upon the grace of God to cover your hypocrisy when you judge others and you do the same thing you are judging them for? This is a rhetorical question and Paul's answer is clearly NO.
This is for those who are phoney religious people!
You say you don't go by faith alone, but the way you speak of works, who would know any different?
I go again by trusting which is belief , and faith by the motive and a open heart decision, and acception!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 01/17/2007
Location: USA
This is not for just those who are phony religious people, but for anyone who presumes that the kindness (grace) of God will simply cover over your sins. There are a lot of people who call themselves Christian who believe this. The specific subject is those who judge others and yet do the same thing that they judge others for (i.e. hypocrites). It becomes more generalized as you go through Romans 2.
-
-
New Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 03/22/2009
The Gospel is an invitation to be one with Christ, through the power of Holy Communion. It is NOT just intellectual assent that Jesus is Lord, although that is a very good start.
No Mary, No Jesus. Know Mary, know Jesus.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by jdubya
This is not for just those who are phony religious people, but for anyone who presumes that the kindness (grace) of God will simply cover over your sins. There are a lot of people who call themselves Christian who believe this. The specific subject is those who judge others and yet do the same thing that they judge others for (i.e. hypocrites). It becomes more generalized as you go through Romans 2.
If you are talking about people who didn't really give their heart to the Lord , then they are hypocrites!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Thaddeus
The Gospel is an invitation to be one with Christ, through the power of Holy Communion. It is NOT just intellectual assent that Jesus is Lord, although that is a very good start.
Thank you Thaddeus for telling me a Catholic gospel is taking Holy communion.
Is this what you witness on the street to the lost sinner is to come and take a communion??
To me this sound like a invitation to a free movie with popcornl.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 10/18/2009 18:04:36
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 06/26/2002
did you read what he wrote evan? are you capable of understanding what people are writing? anyway isn't a free movie a too good to be true gospel, like what your always hiding behind? your kinda bi spiritual aren't you? you go one way then the other.....
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
-
-
New Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 03/22/2009
Thank you Thaddeus for telling me a Catholic gospel is taking Holy communion.
Is this what you witness on the street to the lost sinner is to come and take a communion??
To me this sound like a invitation to a free movie with popcornl.
Huh?
Holy Communion, according to John 6, means we abide in Christ, and he in us. And the poor people on the street you seem so concerned about are also to abide in Christ, and he in them.
John 6:[53] So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
[54] he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
[55] For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
[56] He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
[57] As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.
No Mary, No Jesus. Know Mary, know Jesus.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
did you read what he wrote evan? are you capable of understanding what people are writing? anyway isn't a free movie a too good to be true gospel, like what your always hiding behind? your kinda bi spiritual aren't you? you go one way then the other.....
That is why we can never come to one spiritual understanding Fal, because you are looking more on a one way street of this realm of this natural world than the spiritual.
1Co:2:6: Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Co:2:7: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Thaddeus
Thank you Thaddeus for telling me a Catholic gospel is taking Holy communion.
Is this what you witness on the street to the lost sinner is to come and take a communion??
To me this sound like a invitation to a free movie with popcornl.
Huh?
Holy Communion, according to John 6, means we abide in Christ, and he in us. And the poor people on the street you seem so concerned about are also to abide in Christ, and he in them.
John 6:[53] So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
[54] he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
[55] For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
[56] He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
[57] As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.
What does a dead Mary or a dead moses and Abraham or Paul has to do with the gospel????
I would never tell a person the Lord supper is what saves them!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
First off, for a person who thinks it is important to have a personal relationship with Christ, why do reject the most perfect union with Christ?
Your view is closer to renting a hooker for an hour than seeking a permanent relationship. Not that this is what you intend, but frankly your view is so very minimal and limited compared to the type of relationship that Christ desires to have with you.
Communion
Commune
Community
Communication
Union
Yes, Holy Communion is definitely associated with the Eucharist. But you are only looking at the physical again - Holy Communion is and always has been that Union between God and His People, and they with each other and God. It is the ultimate relationship.
Communion is reciprocal. It unites us with God and Our Family. One can have communion without physically eating the bread and wine at Mass. Even those not yet received into the Church are able to enter into Spiritual Communion with God.
The Eucharist is the ultimate expression of this Holy Communion because it is the Feast that is shared between God and man. But we always desire to be united with Christ and each other in the Mystical Body of Christ. Communion.
quote:
Main Entry: com·mu·nion
Pronunciation: \k#601;-#712;myü-ny#601;nFunction: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin communion-, communio mutual participation, from communis
Date: 14th century
1 : an act or instance of sharing
2 a capitalized : a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ
b : the act of receiving Communion
c capitalized : the part of a Communion service in which the sacrament is received
3 : intimate fellowship or rapport : communication
4 : a body of Christians having a common faith and discipline <the Anglican communion>
Merriam-Webster
I have said this before, Evangelist, you really need to get yourself a dictionary. It helps so much with understanding.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
First off, for a person who thinks it is important to have a personal relationship with Christ, why do reject the most perfect union with Christ?
Your view is closer to renting a hooker for an hour than seeking a permanent relationship. Not that this is what you intend, but frankly your view is so very minimal and limited compared to the type of relationship that Christ desires to have with you.
Communion
Commune
Community
Communication
Union
Yes, Holy Communion is definitely associated with the Eucharist. But you are only looking at the physical again - Holy Communion is and always has been that Union between God and His People, and they with each other and God. It is the ultimate relationship.
Communion is reciprocal. It unites us with God and Our Family. One can have communion without physically eating the bread and wine at Mass. Even those not yet received into the Church are able to enter into Spiritual Communion with God.
The Eucharist is the ultimate expression of this Holy Communion because it is the Feast that is shared between God and man. But we always desire to be united with Christ and each other in the Mystical Body of Christ. Communion.
quote:
Main Entry: com·mu·nion
Pronunciation: \k#601;-#712;myü-ny#601;nFunction: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin communion-, communio mutual participation, from communis
Date: 14th century
1 : an act or instance of sharing
2 a capitalized : a Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ
b : the act of receiving Communion
c capitalized : the part of a Communion service in which the sacrament is received
3 : intimate fellowship or rapport : communication
4 : a body of Christians having a common faith and discipline <the Anglican communion>
Merriam-Webster
I have said this before, Evangelist, you really need to get yourself a dictionary. It helps so much with understanding.
I like a concordance better when studying the bible , but I do use a dictionary sometimes online and off line.
I guess you practice what you preach so a union is a communion??
What communion did Paul make and teach???
It sound like a work gospel more than a tooo good gospel which is too good to refuse!
This is why when I minister on tv on the street as I tell other this good news I get a big responce and people want what I preach and tell them.
So many say why doesn't the church at large teach this?
I tell them because it is full of bad news, works, merits, and religon of men which is conditional, and being a goodie good person making brownie oint to maybe get into heaven or a (purgatory).
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
New Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 03/22/2009
quote:
What does a dead Mary or a dead moses and Abraham or Paul has to do with the gospel????
I would never tell a person the Lord supper is what saves them!
First off, you sound like an atheist when you declare that Mary and Moses and Abraham and Paul are dead. The Christian position is that of the Bible, namely, Luke 20:38. And remember, the "dead" Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus at His transfiguration centuries after they died. Dead in the body does not equate to dead in the spirit. Otherwise, how could they witness for us (Hebrews 12:1)?
Second, what could save us more than to for Christ to abide in us, and for us to abide in him (John 6:56)? As the bible says, those that are united to him are one with him (1 Corinthians 6:17)!!
Have you ever read your own bible, Evangelist?
No Mary, No Jesus. Know Mary, know Jesus.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
It does beg the question as to whether you have read the Bible, Evangelist. Paul preaches the same communion that Catholcs practice today. Jesus Christ set it up that way. You would have to abandon the Bible completely to come up with anything else.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
|
|
Subscribe by Email
RSS