Was the Trinity ever mantioned in the Old Testemen
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I was wondering since alot of people seem to think that the Trinity is a mystery and we don't know enough about it. I wonderd if they from old knew that answer? Would they ahve handed it down to the people? What is your take on this? Thank you lacy-1
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I have recently wondered about the 3 who visit Abraham in Genesis 18...
1And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
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Gen 1:26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the
Air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing
That creepeth upon the earth.
Gene:3:22: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of
Us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also
Of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gene:11:7: Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that
They may not understand one another's speech.
lacy-1
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The Father is on the throne and is always on the throne...Its the Word Jesus and the Spirit that have been mobile, for lack of a better term...yet the Father is omnipresent through them..Yes in the above scripture, that is a preincarnate visit from Christ...also at the birth of Sampson, the burning bush, and other times...LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE....God is one God, but manifest in three persons...no one can understand it, you just believe it because the Word of God declares it....Paul said "great is the mystery of Godliness that God was manifest in the flesh"...this is once again, not an area that is arguable when approached through the entire Word of God. Remember, they sought to stone Jesus when he said, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was, I AM !!
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yes... that's basic... but why does OUR and WE and US necessarily refer to 3?
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
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quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
yes... that's basic... but why does OUR and WE and US necessarily refer to 3?
Because it's plural, nnot singular, that's basic english! lacy-1
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Isaiah 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Psalm 110:1: A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Prov 30:4: Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
Isaiah 48:16: Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
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plaural could imply many more than just three.
there is a verse in proverbs.
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?
that has always stood out to me
melchizedek too "king of peace" or salem (ie jerusalem) who brought bread and wine... was also king of interesting because he just appears and leaves.. not that i think he was an appearance of christ pre incarnate but it could be viewed that way.
i think there are quite a few verses that we use to back up our belief but again it wasn't ironed out at all in the jews time... maybe the closes you might come is to the ain soph which is part of the kabbalah tradition and even that is a very loose comparison.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
plaural could imply many more than just three.
there is a verse in proverbs.
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?
that has always stood out to me
melchizedek too "king of peace" or salem (ie jerusalem) who brought bread and wine... was also king of interesting because he just appears and leaves.. not that i think he was an appearance of christ pre incarnate but it could be viewed that way.
MELCHIZEDEK, WAS A PHOTO TYPE OF CHRIST YES HE CAME AND WENT WETHER THEY KEPT ANY GENEOLOGY ON HIM COULD BE THE FACTOR. It could have very well been Christ visiting just to set up the Priesthood for the first time, we know very little of Mel. but Christ is after the order of Melchizedek, so that means something to me, about the two of them.
The word used for God in Genesis 1:1 is "Elohim," which is a form of the word "El." In the context of Genesis 1:1, there can certainly be no doubt as to who is doing the creating. In the Hebrew language the "I'm" ending imputes plurality. Therefore, "Elohim" is the plural from of the word "El."
Isaiah 48:16: Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
lacy-1
i think there are quite a few verses that we use to back up our belief but again it wasn't ironed out at all in the jews time... maybe the closes you might come is to the ain soph which is part of the kabbalah tradition and even that is a very loose comparison.
I realy think they knew, and still denied Jesus because of his father not comming from the house of David(Quote)from the Jews version. But in those day's a step child could be adopted into the house of David because of his step father being from that line. (Quote of Jews) They changed it in the 40's or 50's i don't remember.
lacy-1
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quote:
Originally posted by lacy-1
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
yes... that's basic... but why does OUR and WE and US necessarily refer to 3?
Because it's plural, nnot singular, that's basic english! lacy-1
Ha...yeah... but I don't think you get what I'm saying. "Plural" doesn't mean "3". It means "more than 1".
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
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quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
quote:
Originally posted by lacy-1
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
yes... that's basic... but why does OUR and WE and US necessarily refer to 3?
Because it's plural, nnot singular, that's basic english! lacy-1
Ha...yeah... but I don't think you get what I'm saying. "Plural" doesn't mean "3". It means "more than 1".
So in other words you think it was angels?
Ecclesiastes 12:1: Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have
No pleasure in them; In the original Hebrew text for this verse, "Creator" is
Plural. The Hebrew word for Creator is the plural form of the word "bara" which means to create out of nothing.
Young's Literal Translation, 1898 says:
"Remember also thy Creators in the days of thy youth, While that the evil
Days come not, Nor the years have arrived, that thou sayest, 'I have no pleasure in them.'"
The plural Creator is also seen in Isaiah 54:5, where the prophet states:
"For thy Maker is thy husband, Jehovah of Hosts is His name, And thy Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, 'God of all the earth,' He is called.'"
(Young's Literal Translation, 1898)
In this verse the word "Maker" is the plural form of the word "asa," which means to form or make.
lacy-1
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Don't waste your time trying to persuade me into believing in the Trinity, because I have always been a believer (: ... but you have yet to show me why you believe "plural" means "3".
Concerning Genesis 18 - God and 2 angels (the 2 who Lot helped keep from being sodomized were angels).
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
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quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Don't waste your time trying to persuade me into believing in the Trinity, because I have always been a believer (: ... but you have yet to show me why you believe "plural" means "3".
Concerning Genesis 18 - God and 2 angels (the 2 who Lot helped keep from being sodomized were angels).
 Why are you so stuck on 3? I know plural means more then 1, and i was refering to scripture to prove just that! So there! lacy-1
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quote:
Originally posted by lacy-1
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Don't waste your time trying to persuade me into believing in the Trinity, because I have always been a believer (: ... but you have yet to show me why you believe "plural" means "3".
Concerning Genesis 18 - God and 2 angels (the 2 who Lot helped keep from being sodomized were angels).
Why are you so stuck on 3? I know plural means more then 1, and i was refering to scripture to prove just that! So there! lacy-1
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
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quote:
Originally posted by lacy-1
I was wondering since alot of people seem to think that the Trinity is a mystery and we don't know enough about it. I wonderd if they from old knew that answer? Would they ahve handed it down to the people? What is your take on this? Thank you lacy-1
Isaiah 9:6
A child will be born to us, will be called:
Wonderful Counselor,
Almighty God,
Prince of Peace,
Everlasting Father.
I may be a heretic, but I've always seen that as a pretty good description of the triune God.
With hindsight, I think it is easier for the Church to SEE trinity and elaborate as more was revealed to us.
Edit: added last sentence
Edited by Patrick on 10/17/2009 22:28:31
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