Real Presence in the Eucharist?
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OK My question is where do you get a real present's in the Eucharist? also, how can you eat Jesus body and still do it again over and over? Is that the secret? lacy-1
Title changed from: Real Present's in the Eucharist -- Admin
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The Jews knew. The frenzy over the expected coming of the Messiah turned the Jewish population into turnoil throughout the first century AD give or take a decade.
The ones who rejected Jesus were the ones who had gotten quite content with the status quo. They liked things as they were and did not want any part of any New Covenant. These ones were only paying lipservice to the Old Covenant, and were more interested in their personal glory and wealth.
Pax et Bonum,
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Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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lacy,
If Christ can multiple fishes and loaves to feed the 5000, of course He can turn bread and wine into His Body and Blood. It is by the working of the Holy Spirit that this happens.
We get this from the Last Supper accounts in Scripture, from John 6, and from Paul's discussion in 1 Corinthians about how the bread is participation in the Body of Christ, and the cup participation in the Blood of Christ. We get it from Paul's saying that he who eats and drinks unworthily is guilty of the Body and Blood.
There are few things as obviously clear in Scripture than the fact that we are to eat and drink of the Body and Blood of Christ, and the Eucharist is how we do it.
History also bears this out. The oldest Christian groups, the Catholic and Orthodox, both hold without question the Real Presence (not Real Present's).
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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quote:
Originally posted by Theophilus
lacy,
If Christ can multiple fishes and loaves to feed the 5000, of course He can turn bread and wine into His Body and Blood. It is by the working of the Holy Spirit that this happens.
We get this from the Last Supper accounts in Scripture, from John 6, and from Paul's discussion in 1 Corinthians about how the bread is participation in the Body of Christ, and the cup participation in the Blood of Christ. We get it from Paul's saying that he who eats and drinks unworthily is guilty of the Body and Blood.
There are few things as obviously clear in Scripture than the fact that we are to eat and drink of the Body and Blood of Christ, and the Eucharist is how we do it.
History also bears this out. The oldest Christian groups, the Catholic and Orthodox, both hold without question the Real Presence (not Real Present's).
 Sorry, for the bad spelling, i have a problem with that. i want to know what the secret is? And how can you keep doing this over and over and why isn't every one feeling good and living forever with God inside him or her? Why arn't they automaticaly heald? Don't you understand what i am asking?lacy-1
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I understand what you are asking. The question is why do you think that the miracle pertains to this life?
Jesus promised that if ate His Flesh and drank His Blood we would have eternal life.
The early Church Fathers reckoned that this was something quite extraordinary. Normal food gets broken down and turned into us. But the Eucharist is consumed by us but instead of merely serving as physical nourishment, it helps us to become more like Christ.
While I do not know if I am making a leap or not, I liken this to something that helps our mortal bodies become our glorified bodies at the resurrection.
While eating the Eucharist may or may not heal our physical bodies - my son loves communion because whenever he is not feeling well, the Eucharist always makes him feel better - it can make us unwell if we receive it unworthily. Paul mentions this in our epistle.
There have been numerous Eucharistic miracles over the centuries, but it is something that is recognized by those with Faith (even among those who are not Catholic), and scoffed at by those who are lacking in Faith.
If the Eucharist always caused visible/physical miracles, people would rally to it as if it were a magical talisman instead of Jesus Christ. But it always gives grace and does heal us spiritually.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I understand what you are asking. The question is why do you think that the miracle pertains to this life?
Jesus promised that if ate His Flesh and drank His Blood we would have eternal life.
The early Church Fathers reckoned that this was something quite extraordinary. Normal food gets broken down and turned into us. But the Eucharist is consumed by us but instead of merely serving as physical nourishment, it helps us to become more like Christ.
While I do not know if I am making a leap or not, I liken this to something that helps our mortal bodies become our glorified bodies at the resurrection.
While eating the Eucharist may or may not heal our physical bodies - my son loves communion because whenever he is not feeling well, the Eucharist always makes him feel better - it can make us unwell if we receive it unworthily. Paul mentions this in our epistle.
There have been numerous Eucharistic miracles over the centuries, but it is something that is recognized by those with Faith (even among those who are not Catholic), and scoffed at by those who are lacking in Faith.
If the Eucharist always caused visible/physical miracles, people would rally to it as if it were a magical talisman instead of Jesus Christ. But it always gives grace and does heal us spiritually.
I agree, especially w/ that last part. When Jesus told his followers to eat his body and drink his blood, most were unable to do as he said. Only the sincere and totally trusting followers are able to accept it... I guess it's a faith thing.
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
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The Eucharist tells me the depth of a person's faith in Christ. To the outside world, it is a completely ridiculous idea. But to believe that the bread and wine become Jesus's Body and Blood is to believe that Christ truly is the Son of God.
Think about John 6. Many who had been Christ's disciples left Him when they heard His teaching about this. Those who stayed did so because, as Peter said, they knew that He had the words of everlasting life, that He was the Christ, the holy One of God.
That's the "secret," lacy. We believe because Christ told us to. It takes no more faith on my part to believe the bread and wine become the Body and Blood than it does for me to accept that the death of a Jewish carpenter in 33AD provides forgiveness of the sins I commit today.
But you are right, lacy. People who receive Christ in the Eucharist SHOULD be changed. For that time that the Body has not yet been digested, we are physically united to Christ, and we, the Body of Christ, consume the Body of Christ. But the healing is not a physical healing (though there have been examples); rather, the Eucharist is a spiritual healing as well. I cannot tell you how many times I have approached the altar in some kind of spiritual crisis, and the Eucharist never failed to give me healing and the Grace to carry on.
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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Darth Vader: Luke, I know what you're getting for Christmas.
Luke: That's impossible. How?
Darth Vader: I felt your presents.
"Look on the bright side, if this is the best they've got around here, in six months we'll be running this planet." (Planet of the Apes)
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Thank you all for your answers, I believe it is the body and blood of Christ But i could never reason why we didn't get healed on the spot. Faith your reasoning is great and i think i understand better I have recieved since ive been back, but i keep wavering expecially when i hear differnt thing's about the church and now the Angelicans, Don't they allow gays in their church? Now does that mean we have to drink from the same cup? What about aids?
Theo,I have got to get back in church this week because i have missed a few and it is a sin, but i didn't stop on purpose i was still undersided What to do.
And acumen, i remember that is scriptures i thought it was the jews but it was indeed some of his own decipals, that turned and walked away. Coul he ahve been trying them to see who would eraly listen to him? lacy-1
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The Anglicans who want to come home are not the ones who want actively Gay Bishops living with their lovers in the rectory.
However, homosexuals are always welcome in any true Christian Church. Jesus came to save the sinners and that would not be possible if we shut them all out. As for the cup, a Catholic should know that he or she is not to receive the Eucharist if they are not in a state of grace. If anyone has AIDS or any other communicable disease, one would hope that he or she would refrain from drinking from the cup; however, there are no cases ever reported of any disease being transmitted through the Lord's Cup.
The HIV virus does not last long outside the human body, the cup is wiped and turned after each sip, and the wine is alcohol which is not a really good place for germs to thrive.
The Catholic Church does not compromise. That is one of the reasons that the more orthodox Anglicans want to return. So do not worry about what has happened in the Anglican Church, but rather be glad that many of them are starting to see the Light.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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quote:
Originally posted by Astralis
Darth Vader: Luke, I know what you're getting for Christmas.
Luke: That's impossible. How?
Darth Vader: I felt your presents.
 I am not as dumb as you look! And i know you are talking about my spelling, If you don't want me around I can leave no sweat off my --- OK? Just let me know lacy-1
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If you can't laugh at your own foibles, you'll be the only one not laughing. I think the play on words between "real presents" and "real presence" is contemplative.
"Look on the bright side, if this is the best they've got around here, in six months we'll be running this planet." (Planet of the Apes)
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quote:
Originally posted by Astralis
If you can't laugh at your own foibles, you'll be the only one not laughing. I think the play on words between "real presents" and "real presence" is contemplative.
 It's your fault i have so many mistakes! I praticaly begged you to help me find the stupid delete button. You people don't treat others right, how can any one want to be a catholic!!!!!!lacy=1
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lacy,
Did you find the edit/delete functions? To use them, you have to be logged on by typing in your name and password in the upper right of the screen. If you are logged in there, you can edit, delete, etc.
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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But i could never reason why we didn't get healed on the spot.
Because that's not the purpose of the Eucharist. In Scripture, there were many who were around Christ who were not healed of every physical ailment. He cured whom He cured in accordance with His will.
The Eucharist isn't there for us to be cured of illness, blindness, etc. It's there for us to to have eternal life, to join ourselves with Him and to receive His Graces.
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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quote:
Originally posted by Astralis
If you can't laugh at your own foibles, you'll be the only one not laughing. I think the play on words between "real presents" and "real presence" is contemplative.
OH! you never told me that! Welcome to the game's on you if your PRESENT!Hay I just read my post and it is funny"The real presents in the Eucharist" lacy-1
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