a difficult quiz for Catholics ?
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Fifth Member
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How many millions or billions of years,before the appearance of man did Dinosaurs roam the earth - A big cheer for the first or anyone who supplies the right answer - jimc
jimc[Eph.6:12]
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Dr. Giertych is not an expert in geology or paleontology, so stop trying to use him that way. He can have his opinion on any matter, but that opinion is no more valid than my own or yours.
As for Guy Berthault, he at least is in the right field, but to be an expert, there has to be some kind of consensus - standing alone in your field when your work is clearly biased towards a particular goal - proving a young earth - then that brings the "expert" title into question.
quote:
His experimental work is not especially original or revolutionary
His work was neither the first nor the only flume study in sedimentation and it does no more than confirm principles of size sorting in the presence of currents and shear velocities (20) – (28). It is relevant to bedding within a layer, as well as to turbidity events such as those caused by underwater landslips, to pyroclastic flow and to prograding sedimentation. Since these sources of rapid sedimentary formation are already well known, geologists, in reconstructing the environment of the original sedimentation when interpreting sediments in the field, already consider them.
The sorting of sediments into laminae according to particle size and density in a turbidity event is known as a Bouma sequence (15), and it is well known that such a sequence can be deposited in a short period. In addition, volcanic pyroclasts are known to form laminae rapidly (16). Berthault is unique amongst researchers, as far as I know, in claiming that his valid but limited laboratory findings can be interpreted as a fundamental revolution in geology. He fails in all of his work to demonstrate that major stratigrahic groups, some of which are hundreds of metres thick, could have been or were, as a rule, laid down rapidly.
But perhaps, most fundamentally, his work fails to refute the basic principle of Steno that in undisturbed sedimentary layers, those above were deposited after those vertically below nor does it challenge the principles of sedimentation as understood by modern geology (10), (11).
The Curious Case of the One-Man Band
Provide me with an expert that is able to prove his or her case without bending or breaking the fundamentals of his or her profession.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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That depends. Are you going to accept an answer from a purely scientific standpoint, or are you going to demand that any answere you deem correct to be consistent with your interpretation of the Bible?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Fifth Member
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
That depends. Are you going to accept an answer from a purely scientific standpoint, or are you going to demand that any answere you deem correct to be consistent with your interpretation of the Bible?
answering a question with a question is definately not the answer - jimc
jimc[Eph.6:12]
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Fifth Member
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65 million years since the non-avian dinosaurs died out.
source
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New Member
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if you really want to have a lot of detail on this subject, you should go to illustramedia.com....Privileged Planet....all scientific testimony, moves along quickly, interesting not boring...i think in the light of modern and true science, we are looking at a young universe!
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But not less than 10,000 years young.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Fifth Member
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quote:
Originally posted by michael
65 million years since the non-avian dinosaurs died out.
source
The purpose of the quiz was to find out what individual Catholics accepted and why and not what others accept[via encyclopaedia quotes]etc - jimc
jimc[Eph.6:12]
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Fair enough. The Bible does not give us a complete answer on the subject, and nor was that ever its purpose.
I do not know how old the earth is, I do not blindly accept any assertions on the matter as I have seen some spectacular goofs in this area. But I do believe that is reasonable to presume that the earth is at least many millions of years old, perhaps even a few billion. And there does seem to be a vast separation from when the dinosaurs died out and Homo sapiens appeared.
If this were not the case, we would have some kind of record of them on cave walls or other ancient form of historical documentation. Of course, I cannot ignore that both eastern and western civilizations have stories of dragons, but dragons could fly.
Dinosaur remains have not been found in geological formations that also included humans or anything like them from the same geological time frame. And substantial time passed between these two eras. Much more than can be accounted for by a young earth theory without advancing the notion that God was very agressive in His formation of the world and its geological history - something not born out in the scriptures.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Fifth Member
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the geogolical column as presented in text books and encyclopaedias and television etc does not in fact appear as such in situ.Many layers of strata are upside down and vice versa so the fossils found in bottom layers can in fact be more recent than those in top layers - btw there are many ancient sketches and dinosaur type replications includig their footprints alongside those pf humans and how could it be otherwise since they were both created at the same time and did not hunt or kill and eat each other since they were vegetarians - btw exactly what do you mean my interpretation of the Bible - jimc
jimc[Eph.6:12]
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Fifth Member
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Member since 07/23/2009
Location: United Kingdom
quote:
Originally posted by jimc
the geogolical column as presented in text books and encyclopaedias and television etc does not in fact appear as such in situ.Many layers of strata are upside down and vice versa so the fossils found in bottom layers can in fact be more recent than those in top layers - btw there are many ancient sketches and dinosaur type replications includig their footprints alongside those pf humans and how could it be otherwise since they were both created at the same time and did not hunt or kill and eat each other since they were vegetarians - btw exactly what do you mean my interpretation of the Bible - jimc
my interpretation,so how do you intrepret God taking Adam on a tour round His creation sitting on millions of savaged Dinosaur bones and without batting an eye saying to Him this is "very good".Funny God we have got have we not and His idea of very good - jimc
jimc[Eph.6:12]
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Fifth Member
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Member since 01/26/2008
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by jimc
quote:
Originally posted by jimc
the geogolical column as presented in text books and encyclopaedias and television etc does not in fact appear as such in situ.Many layers of strata are upside down and vice versa so the fossils found in bottom layers can in fact be more recent than those in top layers - btw there are many ancient sketches and dinosaur type replications includig their footprints alongside those pf humans and how could it be otherwise since they were both created at the same time and did not hunt or kill and eat each other since they were vegetarians - btw exactly what do you mean my interpretation of the Bible - jimc
my interpretation,so how do you intrepret God taking Adam on a tour round His creation sitting on millions of savaged Dinosaur bones and without batting an eye saying to Him this is "very good".Funny God we have got have we not and His idea of very good - jimc
Are you saying His creation is no good when God said it is very good?
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Member since 11/17/2007
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quote:
Originally posted by jimc
the geogolical column as presented in text books and encyclopaedias and television etc does not in fact appear as such in situ.Many layers of strata are upside down and vice versa so the fossils found in bottom layers can in fact be more recent than those in top layers - btw there are many ancient sketches and dinosaur type replications includig their footprints alongside those pf humans and how could it be otherwise since they were both created at the same time and did not hunt or kill and eat each other since they were vegetarians - btw exactly what do you mean my interpretation of the Bible - jimc
This may come as a shock to you, but geologists and paleontologists are already quite aware of how the strata get folded and bent and flipped. They take that into consideration when noting their finds.
And if you know of any sketches of humans tracking dinosaurs that date prior to the 20th century, or better yet, prior to the 5th century BC, please forward them to an appropriate scientific agency for evaluation. So far this sort of thing has only happened in sci-fi movies and novels.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Fifth Member
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folded and bent and flipped is old hat.What I am talking about is the latest undisputable update that the strata in which creatures were buried formed sideways and not one on top of the other as had always been thought.See the experiments and evidence for yourself.This has received worldwide acclaim by scientists.Go to www.noevolution.org and then in R/H Column click on STRATIFIGRAPHY and be amazed - meanwhile I will try to find the website re sketches etc of DINOSAURS on rocks and stones in caves etc - btw the mere fact that Dinosaur bones have been found means no millions of years or they would have disintegrated and disappeared - jimc
jimc[Eph.6:12]
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Sorry, but I only accept actual science, not pseudo science.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Fifth Member
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It's obvious that there is no "right" answer since the creation of the universe is a miraculous event. It defies ALL of mans accumulated knowledge(science).
The main message is that God created from nothing all that is seen and unseen. Whether or not man walked with the real dinos or their prodigy has zip to do with our salvation. The author of genesis could only explain creation using the language of his time. Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit he relates using his own words the love of God for man in the Creation story. It is impossible to extrapolate scientific fact from the miracle of Creation considering that this specific miracle contradicts several laws of science in the first place.
It's a dead horse Jim; put away the whip; you cannot debunk all the scientific evidence contrary to your position.
I definitely do not adhere to the belief that all of life on this planet derived from a single organism. Also in accordance with Catholic doctrine I believe that man was created distinctly different than all other creatures and given an immortal soul and that all peoples now on the earth are children of Adam and Eve.
The Catholic faith gives me leeway in what I can speculate on and believe in regards to evolution; I admire the Church for her wisdom.
If man walked with the dinosaurs that's cool and if not that's cool too the belief either or is not in anyway a necessity of my salvation.
tim
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