Who is saved?

Posted on 11/02/2009 at 05:16:04  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

Current posts seem to indicate that only Christians can be saved. I kinda disagree with that notion for a few reasons. It may be that the definition of Christian is either too broad or perhaps too restricted. In any case I know that Catholic theology coined the term invincible ignorance. But there is also a fundamental difference between the Christian denominations and orthodoxy concerning grace...what it is, where it comes from and how it effects our journey or a better term would be pilgrimage here on earth. Christ gave several commands to those who would follow Him. The two which we all know is Love God with your whole heart, mind and strength and Love your neighbor as yourself.

Seems to me that regardless of a persons religious orientations if they do these two things, which in my opinion can only be accomplished through grace, they are indeed Christian or followers of Christ and as a result will be raised up on the last day.

Certainly there is a hope for salvation for each person and even though I believe that the Catholic faith is the road map through the wilderness, I can't help but hope that God's grace is working outside the confines of the visible Church and that those millions or billions that have gone before us had the opportunity to receive the grace of baptism through a genuine desire to be with God.

Posted on 11/03/2009 at 07:14:39  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

I'm certainly with you on this one, keeper. Indeed, doesn't St Paul make some reference to those non-christians who marry christians being caught up in Christ. can't recall where abouts that is, but even without that the Church has taught 'baptism of desire' for a long time.

I'm sure we can agree that it is God's privledge to save those whom He will, and not just those who pay Him the obvious forms of worship or acknowledgement.

Posted on 11/03/2009 at 12:53:50  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

1 Corinthians 7:12-16 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

1Cr 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

1Cr 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

1Cr 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.

1Cr 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save [thy] husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save [thy] wife?"

Posted on 11/04/2009 at 00:57:44  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

yes, that's the bit I meant. Thanks FaL

now, I'd be very interested in non- catholic interpretation of what appears to be Salvation by association... Husband to wife / mother to child...

Interesting, eh?

Posted on 11/04/2009 at 07:26:53  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

1 Corinthians 7:12-16 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

1Cr 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

1Cr 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

1Cr 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.

1Cr 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save [thy] husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save [thy] wife?"

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HI, I was wondering if the unbelieving husband leaves, and leaves a woman with 10 kids what is she to do? The churhc certaintly wont support her, now what? She cannot get married agaian so what is planned for this poor soul? lacy-1

Posted on 11/04/2009 at 07:54:35  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

i guess she would have to do the same thing a husband would do with 10 kids and a wife that left him. what makes you think the church wont help? not to mention a family that big sort of becomes self sufficient. older kids can watch the younger so mom/dad can work, and some of the older kids may also bring in an income.

Posted on 11/05/2009 at 05:50:25  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

Pre-reformation Europe was littered with religious houses that were way ahead of secular thinking in welfare provision. It was a comprehensive network that catered as much for locals near to the house, as well as travellers and pilgrims.

The Reformation - especially calvinist countries - undid this, and it took 450 years for Europe to catch up with what had been lost.

I doubt the true cost of the reformation in terms of suffering and early / painful death for the millions who were not able to benefit from the compassion of Monastic hospitality can ever be calculated.

Posted on 11/05/2009 at 07:18:34  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

Even now, Catholic social services is huge, so are the Knights of Columbus, and the St. Vincent de Paul Society. The Church has always helped even when others would not.

And this has been so from the beginning. In the Bible, there was already provision made for Christians to help each other out so that none starved.

Posted on 11/09/2009 at 01:33:45  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

Well the church here doesn't help anyone i know of. But to answer the question All those who are in the Lambs book of life are saved! lacy-1

Posted on 11/09/2009 at 02:32:35  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

Perhaps I let this topic wander a bit too long. The idea that only Christians are saved seems a bit restrictive. Add to that the necessity of faith (faith in what?) and yeah billions are excluded from the Beatific vision, a majority of which are children.

Yes I believe we are saved by grace through faith, still how do the many denomination reconcile the lack of faith in children or those who have not heard the Gospel? Are these all damned because God allowed them to be born into cultures lacking Christian influence?

Posted on 11/12/2009 at 15:40:46  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

I thought those outside the Catholic box or membership can't be saved?

one love

Posted on 11/12/2009 at 15:54:15  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

I think this thread should go along with this:

The Church Is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic (CCC)

or with the the thread with Revcord in :All Non-Catholics Go to Hell?

Revcord did an awesome job revealing the contradictions of your infallible church, and how it is not biblical in their teaching of being saved.
Sorry it was not a court trial, because the church would be guilty and sentence for lieing and mulipulation of me rules!
I hope Rev comes here and close this case and dogma also here on this thread!

one love

Edited by evangelist on 11/12/2009 15:58:59

Posted on 11/12/2009 at 17:47:18  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

Evan,


The Church is the Body of Christ; now I ask you how does one become a member of the Body of Christ in order to be saved?

Posted on 11/15/2009 at 07:05:11  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

Evangelist, how many scriptures in the bible say that you do not pick God He chooses whom ever He wants He does the choosing. So many are called but few are chosen. Father knows who and what belongs to him. I truly believe this. Remember in Revelations at the end chapter 22 he states that all those who didn't feed the poor, cloth the naked, give water to drink or denyed drink, and those who did not show mercy to others They are the ones who will not see the inside of heaven unless they are sick or have physical issues. It seems to me that is his real beef. When he gathers all from the 4 corners of the earth putting the former on the right and the latter on the left, and you know the rest.NO! You cannot buy your way in either, but you must give with a real loving heart and give until it hurts, expecially when you cannot afford to give that's when it realy counts. I once asked God why can't he bless me so i can help others and give more and I never got the help i imagined i could use, I know why now. He wanted me to give so it would count, give when it was almost impossible to give, and that gift of the heart would be the best gift i could ever give, like the widows mite. lacy-1

Posted on 11/15/2009 at 13:55:10  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

quote:

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Originally posted by keeper49

Evan,


The Church is the Body of Christ; now I ask you how does one become a member of the Body of Christ in order to be saved?

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do Romans 10:9,10! with trust and faith and your in the body of christ!

Maybe it might be strange and hard to get saved in a RCC church to earn and merit membership but I am not catholic to really know or going through the hardships of roman religion.

one love

one love

Posted on 11/15/2009 at 18:46:36  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0

quote:

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Originally posted by evangelist

I thought those outside the Catholic box or membership can't be saved?

one love

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yeah and i thought that was explained to you long ago. why does it seem we have to keep informing and correcting you about what we believe evan? are you not capable of actually understanding what we really claim or is it just not as easy to try and debunk?