Spiritual Dryness
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Re-posted from a thread in the Spirituality section: quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by Diana Holberg
Hi folks... I have a Baptist friend who is struggling with her walk and is experiencing burnout from serving in too many ways at her church. She's experiencing a kind of "dark night" and I'm wanting to share with her the richness that Catholic tradition has to offer in this area. However, she's not college educated, and I do not believe she would bear with the likes of St. John of the Cross or St. Teresa of Avila. Does anyone know of readings to recommend that would be equally challenging spiritually but not require an extensive vocabulary?
I've considered trying to paraphrase the writings of these Saints myself, but I know I couldn't do them justice......
Your Baptist friend Needs to know that God wants her to burn bright for Him, and not burn out.
Uh, I think she already knows this. quote:
Jesus said in Matt 11:30. "My yoke is easy and My burden light".
Tell your friend she needs to find out what her calling is and do it.
She needs to wait on God in prayer and study for her Ministry, She need to focus on that and not a lot of other things, The reason she is burnt out is because she is doing things she thinks is for Jesus, Instead of IN JESUS,
I find it interesting that you see fit to make such a judgment of my friend. I know fewer people who operate more in the Holy Spirit than this wonderful woman of God. She knows that her ministry is to women, and she has worked diligently in that ministry the entire time I've known her -- some 12 years or so. And every ministry she has touched has borne fruit. What does the Bible say? You will know them by their fruit? But you decide that it's okay to make such statements without any knowledge whatsoever of this woman's achievements in the ministries she has felt privileged in which to serve. Why not offer people the benefit of the doubt in future? quote:
The differene is, When you do something in Jesus you have the Anointing to do it, And if your doing something you think is for Jesus, You are doing it in your own strengh and will soon get exhorstead.
I don't think 12+ years is "soon", do you? quote:
By the way, What "Richness" do catholics have in this area??
I'm having to edit myself very carefully, because it's attitudes like the one reflected in your post which made it much harder than it should have been for me to follow my Lord as He led me to the Catholic Church. Thankfully my pastor was wise enough to tell me, "I trust the Holy Spirit to lead you." God bless him. As for Catholic richness, I suggest you look into St. John of the Cross, St. Teresa of Avila, or any of the numerous other Saints who have written extensively about the phenomenon of spiritual dryness. I'll try to find time to post excerpts here in coming days. Oh, and P.S.... the reason Astralis didn't suggest she read the Bible is that he knows me well enough to know that a friend of mine would already be in the Word. Or, more simply put, he gave her the benefit of the doubt.
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quote:
Originally posted by Diana Holberg
Re-posted from a thread in the Spirituality section:quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by Diana Holberg
Hi folks... I have a Baptist friend who is struggling with her walk and is experiencing burnout from serving in too many ways at her church. She's experiencing a kind of "dark night" and I'm wanting to share with her the richness that Catholic tradition has to offer in this area. However, she's not college educated, and I do not believe she would bear with the likes of St. John of the Cross or St. Teresa of Avila. Does anyone know of readings to recommend that would be equally challenging spiritually but not require an extensive vocabulary?
I've considered trying to paraphrase the writings of these Saints myself, but I know I couldn't do them justice......
Your Baptist friend Needs to know that God wants her to burn bright for Him, and not burn out.
Uh, I think she already knows this.quote:
Jesus said in Matt 11:30. "My yoke is easy and My burden light".
Tell your friend she needs to find out what her calling is and do it.
She needs to wait on God in prayer and study for her Ministry, She need to focus on that and not a lot of other things, The reason she is burnt out is because she is doing things she thinks is for Jesus, Instead of IN JESUS,
I find it interesting that you see fit to make such a judgment of my friend. I know fewer people who operate more in the Holy Spirit than this wonderful woman of God. She knows that her ministry is to women, and she has worked diligently in that ministry the entire time I've known her -- some 12 years or so. And every ministry she has touched has borne fruit. What does the Bible say? You will know them by their fruit? But you decide that it's okay to make such statements without any knowledge whatsoever of this woman's achievements in the ministries she has felt privileged in which to serve. Why not offer people the benefit of the doubt in future?quote:
The differene is, When you do something in Jesus you have the Anointing to do it, And if your doing something you think is for Jesus, You are doing it in your own strengh and will soon get exhorstead.
I don't think 12+ years is "soon", do you?quote:
By the way, What "Richness" do catholics have in this area??
I'm having to edit myself very carefully, because it's attitudes like the one reflected in your post which made it much harder than it should have been for me to follow my Lord as He led me to the Catholic Church. Thankfully my pastor was wise enough to tell me, "I trust the Holy Spirit to lead you." God bless him.
As for Catholic richness, I suggest you look into St. John of the Cross, St. Teresa of Avila, or any of the numerous other Saints who have written extensively about the phenomenon of spiritual dryness. I'll try to find time to post excerpts here in coming days.
Oh, and P.S.... the reason Astralis didn't suggest she read the Bible is that he knows me well enough to know that a friend of mine would already be in the Word. Or, more simply put, he gave her the benefit of the doubt.
Your friends burnout is proof that she is doing to much that isn't of God, or she isn't doing what God called her to do, otherwise she would have the power to do it without the burnout, Either God is right or you are.
Being burned out isn't one of the fruits, Your friend needs to get refreshed Spiritualy. Your attitude will onlt hinder your friend, She needs to know the truth.
To say your richness is found in Saint so and so. is very strange, It should come from the Bible and the Holy Spirit. The saints you mentioned will know about spiritual dryness, because they are spiritualy dry.
God never led you to the catholic church, The Spiritleads us int truth, not error. When your Pastor said
"I trust the Holy Spirit to lead you" What he meant was, He is trusting the Holy Spirit to lead you out of the catholic church and into a Christian Church.
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Instead of diatribing as to how wrong I consider you to be in this matter, I will simply post an on-topic question for you:
Do you believe the book of Job has relevance for Christians? If so, what relevance does it have?
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The Bible gave us numerous saints as examples and every expectation that we would have many more - read the Hall of Faith discourse in Hebrews 11.
Start getting a little more familiar with the Bible before you go off making idiotic statements.
And if you think that the Holy Spirit would lead anyone out of the Catholic Church, to which of the 40,000 different contradictory denominations would the Holy Spirit lead them to?
So far the biggest draw has been to the Jehovah's Witnesses and I think the Mormons are a close second. I guess that proves it. We should all join the JWs.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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so good to see you diana.. :)
in all fairness to the pentacostals and charismatics... a good many of them did understand longsuffering... and even that dryness as their faith is challenged... unfortunately the other portion doesn't like that at all and do just about anything they can to feel good or at least pretend they do. which is normally by avoiding those who do suffer. when i was first in that movement,, i really thought it would be a sin to be upset or not to smile... but i couldn't stand being so fake. i certainly think job and jeremiah helped me to see that god isn't as ashamed at our suffering as some of those happy fake christians are, probably because he is omniscient.. and knows what those fakers don't.
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Is it easier to eat the corn on the cob or take it off? Ths may sound dumb but read what you said and think, then read this and answer.
baby3
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quote:
Originally posted by Diana Holberg
Instead of diatribing as to how wrong I consider you to be in this matter, I will simply post an on-topic question for you:
Do you believe the book of Job has relevance for Christians? If so, what relevance does it have?
Just because you consider me to be wrong, Doesn't mean I am wrong.
The Book of Job shows us that we shouldn't fear a fear, and we should watch what we say. They are both good lessons for us Christians to learn.
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
The Bible gave us numerous saints as examples and every expectation that we would have many more - read the Hall of Faith discourse in Hebrews 11.
Start getting a little more familiar with the Bible before you go off making idiotic statements.
And if you think that the Holy Spirit would lead anyone out of the Catholic Church, to which of the 40,000 different contradictory denominations would the Holy Spirit lead them to?
So far the biggest draw has been to the Jehovah's Witnesses and I think the Mormons are a close second. I guess that proves it. We should all join the JWs.
[1] There are no catholics in Heb 11's Hall of fame.
[2] The Holy Spirit leads people into the truth, Not 40,000 different contradictions, Try reading the Bible and you'll see the Holy Spirit leads us into the truth.
There is only one God and one truth.
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
so good to see you diana.. :)
in all fairness to the pentacostals and charismatics... a good many of them did understand longsuffering... and even that dryness as their faith is challenged... unfortunately the other portion doesn't like that at all and do just about anything they can to feel good or at least pretend they do. which is normally by avoiding those who do suffer. when i was first in that movement,, i really thought it would be a sin to be upset or not to smile... but i couldn't stand being so fake. i certainly think job and jeremiah helped me to see that god isn't as ashamed at our suffering as some of those happy fake christians are, probably because he is omniscient.. and knows what those fakers don't.
[1]I don't know what kind of pentecostal or Charismatic Churches you have been in, But my Church never aviod those who suffer, We are commanded by Jesus to heal them.
[2] The reason those people you mentiond had a smile is because they knew the truth and thet truth sets us free. Jn 8: 32.
[3] If you can't stand being a fake, Why go to a catholic Church, where all their teachings are fake??.
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oh well then why are you bagging on diana? are you just a **** to catholics? or non pentacostals who suffer? and please take note that i did offer a partial defense for you guys because there are many who at least try to be consistent. but if your really a pent you should know those cliques, and those people who are so shallow that they just don't deal with reality. a friend of mine, while i was in that movement told me that pentacostals were too concerned with act 2 to be hospitable... and what was sad was that i knew exactly what she meant. as for healing... we catholics believe in healing too.. but in all my years in the pent movement i honestly cannot say i ever saw a real healing. just healings that came and went... and this ties in with the avoiding... because often when prayers didn't instantly heal then the sick were often blamed for not having enough faith. if a person claims to have the gift of healing but runs after prayers don't instantly heal then they are a fraud.
point 2 is a big NOT. one of those guys later was convinced that the holy spirit told him it was o.k. to smoke pot. that may explain the smile. another person was just to prideful and needed to be the center of attention, and did this by presenting a false joy.. as a matter of fact all those kinds of people weren't really free because they weren't free to feel sad, or in a few extreme cases even say they had a head ache. it's all bs of the highest caliber. for myself i laughed a lot and do even more now... but i don't pretend now and i stopped pretending back then. because you cannot know the truth if your just pretending.
3.. this is another of those loose ignorant claims g4. i returned to the catholic church because i had no choice. the things i learned and the spirits leading, over many years time brought me here. as i started to see the lies and falsehood in the pentacostal movement, i began to study church history and other non catholic sects, (i was very anti catholic for a spell), i think i went from the arminianism of pentacostalism over to an almost pure antinomianism. i struggled when i found the bible contained errors, and a lot of them... as a matter of fact i think this may be the turning point for me... because i almost walked away from faith altogether. but god didn't let me. and he helped me to see that the bible was what it was and that the non catholic teaching about it was what was wrong. it is not inerrant. and it is not a replacement for the church. this began my period of really challenging my beliefs, where i eventually went post evangelical... and then it began to hit me that going post evangelical was just an attempt to "reform" a church that subjected itself to "modernity" and that a lot of what i was finding in the post movement were things that had been practiced in the pre reform period and even during the modern era in the catholic church. that was when i began to re investigate catholicism and that was when i really saw the lie for the first time. because as i investigated, i, like you, just approached it with all the stereotypes, arguments, apologetics, and flat out lies that i had been told by the anti catholic sects for almost 12 years. but as i looked at the church and what it had to say... well i realized all too soon who was lying. and make no mistake here.. i'm not talking about who was right in their teaching... i'm talking about actual lying. because it was like all the propaganda was nothing but manipulating what the catholic really believed. if they had been fair and just explained why they dissagreed with catholics i wouldn't have been upset at all.. but that is not what they did. so as i delved deeper and saw how much lying actually went on, how bad the stereotypes were, how false the non catholics had been... i tried to challenge these within my own fellowship... but kind of got booted. which was fine because by this time i had also been truly trying to understand catholicism and the more i dug, the more i found consistent and true and it was then that i realized that i knew too much to stay apart from the church.
you say their teachings are fake.. but i don't think you really know what your talking about. and i'm pretty sure that you have never even challenged your own beliefs to know if they are fake or not. what i think is that your doing what most people in your movement do, and that is pretend. you claim that the churches teachings are false, but you have yet to prove any such thing, at the most you offer a possible alternate belief but that is even more suspect because your beliefs come way too late in history.
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
The Bible gave us numerous saints as examples and every expectation that we would have many more - read the Hall of Faith discourse in Hebrews 11.
Start getting a little more familiar with the Bible before you go off making idiotic statements.
And if you think that the Holy Spirit would lead anyone out of the Catholic Church, to which of the 40,000 different contradictory denominations would the Holy Spirit lead them to?
So far the biggest draw has been to the Jehovah's Witnesses and I think the Mormons are a close second. I guess that proves it. We should all join the JWs.
[1] There are no catholics in Heb 11's Hall of fame.
[2] The Holy Spirit leads people into the truth, Not 40,000 different contradictions, Try reading the Bible and you'll see the Holy Spirit leads us into the truth.
There is only one God and one truth.
1. Technically no Christians either, except for the examples given from Maccabbees, Paul chose examples from that book that actually did look forward to the Resurrection of the Body through the King of the World to come. But you reject that example, so your Bible only has non-Christians as faith examples, and it seems that you reject the possibility that faith would continue to produce examples under the New Covenant - interesting take from someone who claims to be Christian.
2. Then why have you chosen to side with the 40,000 plus group instead of the original Church?
There is Only One Lord, One Faith and One Baptism, but while you accept One God, you allow for multiple faiths (even if you think that only your particular brand is true), and at accept at least three baptisms.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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You know what i think? Some where in the bible Jesus said "As a man thinketh" May be their are those who do sleep in the grave because of their little faith in life after death. God hears your thoughts and it is all documented and some day when all are in the kingdom and others are still in their graves we will know the answer but they won't untill all the wicked are judged in the 2nd resurection. I don't want to be there.
baby3
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1 Corinthians 13:12
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Hello, i went to church tonight and i can say there was nothing dry about it. They had palm trees all in the rows and palms of course and we sang and had a differnt kind of service, it was very nice and i realy enjoyed it.I can't wait or the Thursday service and Good Fridays and then i am off the my dads, for Easter. I think it could be our last as he is very old and not doing to well. My sister has lymphoma cancer also and she stopped her kemo, i was diagnosd also with a large tumor in my kidny so i am getting tests Wednesday at the hospital. No matter what i feel i will go when my time comes and i pray that i am as brave as Jesus was. God Bless!
baby3
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
Just because you consider me to be wrong, Doesn't mean I am wrong.
Back atcha  quote:
The Book of Job shows us that we shouldn't fear a fear, and we should watch what we say. They are both good lessons for us Christians to learn.
So there are two lessons in Job? Wow, did you miss out on the richness of that book.
Job's friends chided him because of his suffering. Surely you can see that you do the same?
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God bless you and your family. I trust that God has good plans for you regardless of how they might unfold. Death is only the gateway to eternity, and no matter how soon or how late it comes, life is very short by comparison.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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