Catholic Sex Abuse Scandals
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The World Over April 9, 2010: George Weigel & Frank Cottrell Boyce Yes, this is on YouTube, but it is interesting to watch. People get all fussy over the cover-up in the Church in the past and yet are oblivious to the ongoing cover-ups outside the Church and misleading information that keeps people from seeing the truth. Only the first part of the show is on the abuse scandals, but George Weigel is a very interesting guest, and is an author. His book "The Courage To Be Catholic: Crisis, Reform, and the Future of the Church" (Basic Books, 2002), provides a lot of insight into what happened, and what is happening now.
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"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Nope your church made the mistakes and it is not a prophecy it is a warning form God for people to come out of here and do not be partakers of her sins. If they read the bible they can save their butts. When the leaders of the church sins and it is just ignored by the leaders that's the time to worry about where you stand in Gods word.
baby3
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Then why is it worse outside the Church than in?
Pax et Bonum,
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"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by baby3
Nope your church made the mistakes and it is not a prophecy it is a warning form God for people to come out of here and do not be partakers of her sins. If they read the bible they can save their butts. When the leaders of the church sins and it is just ignored by the leaders that's the time to worry about where you stand in Gods word.
You have to know that catholics aren't Christians, they are siners just like the unregenerate man in the world, They are religious, Not regenerated, They are catholic, Not Christian, They are unsaved, Not saved.
The only difference between them and the man in the world, is, They go to a church.
They can, and do what they want, as long as they go to confession, then after confesion they think they are justufied in God's sight.
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Then why is it worse outside the Church than in?
Is it worse outside the catholic church???, I can't see the difference. But the catholic errors and evil teachings are worse because they claim to read and know the Bible.
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Member since 06/26/2002
quote:
Originally posted by baby3
Nope your church made the mistakes and it is not a prophecy it is a warning form God for people to come out of here and do not be partakers of her sins. If they read the bible they can save their butts. When the leaders of the church sins and it is just ignored by the leaders that's the time to worry about where you stand in Gods word.
the problem with this is that leaders in all religions sin baby.. and you sin too. i personally didn't stand for the blame game when i was a non catholic... i thought it was idolatrous and blasphemy to say that a person like jimmy swaggart was cause to reject god, or that bakker, or warnke or any other religious leader who is after all just a human, should not be able to fail or that we should base our faith on that failure. i hear people today say they cannot be catholics because of the sex scandal.... just like i heard evangelicals say they couldn't believe because of swaggart.
the sad thing is that while the pedophiles and swaggarts are certainly out there and certainly need to be dealt with, i always feel bad for the 99 percent of other pastors and priests who have sacrificed their lives to serve the people of god that get stigmatized by people who just want to blame someone so they can avoid god.
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You have to know that catholics aren't Christians, they are siners just like the unregenerate man in the world,
not sure what a siner is. did you mean sinner? must have been frothing at the lips in your frenzy to produce a rabid attack against the church again and couldn't take the time to spell?
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They are religious, Not regenerated, They are catholic, Not Christian,
a regenerated person is religious, and a catholic is a christian. i have yet to hear any actual argument concerning this... only your opinions g4, and opinions are like armpits... everyone has a few... and they stink.
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The only difference between them and the man in the world, is, They go to a church.
They can, and do what they want, as long as they go to confession, then after confesion they think they are justufied in God's sight.
hmmm. it seems that going to confession is at least an acknowledgement of doing wrong. i would be more concerned for those catholic who don't go to confession. further, if you truly see a problem with this, then what can you say about the evangelicals who get to sin because god already forgave them for it all? i honestly never did understand that one, even when i was an evangelical. they would make the same accusation about catholics and yet feel free to sin because they are already saved. i even remember one girl on "survivor" who said this right on tv... " i don't feel bad about lyin, cause god will forgive me anyway"..
sorry g4 but you need to think about things a little more before you start flippin out accusations. and keep in mind that when you point the finger, there are alway 3 fingers pointing back at you.
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I find it both funny and sad that Catholics get called degenerates when we believe that sin can send us to Hell, and people like God4Me feel that members of their own "church" can molest children and swing between spouses and lovers all year long and still consider themselves "saved".
Manmade labels do not concern me. It is God that I want to please.
And it is far worse out side the Church than in. In the United States, there have been over 39 million victims of child sexual abuse. Of those less than 1% by Catholic Priests, the rest by family members, school teachers, sports coaches etc. Last year, only six credible cases occured in the US by Catholic Priests.
So what about the millions of other children, are they not worthy of any consideration?
Why are more people not worried about their kids teachers? News reports pop up all the time about teachers molesting students and then they just disappear - not newsworthy apparently. What about coaches, sure we have one infamous one in Canada who is likely going back to jail, but he is just one of many.
Yes nobody worries about sending their kids off to Hockey camp, or the Boy Scouts (which was also found to have been covering up sex abuse scandals for decades - and unlike the Catholic Church was not even trying to treat the offenders).
The Church did have a scandal. Aspects of it were certainly not handled well. In some cases, quite horribly. But the Church learned from it and has largely corrected the problem. Six cases is still too many in my book, but it sure beats the wholesale destruction of innocence that is occurring accross the US by non-priests. Child pornography, child sex-rings, child molesting with in families and/or in day cares.
We need to watch our children and right now, the safest place for my children is inside the Catholic Church. I still watch, but at least I don't have blinders on.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
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You have to know that catholics aren't Christians, they are siners just like the unregenerate man in the world,
not sure what a siner is. did you mean sinner? must have been frothing at the lips in your frenzy to produce a rabid attack against the church again and couldn't take the time to spell?
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They are religious, Not regenerated, They are catholic, Not Christian,
a regenerated person is religious, and a catholic is a christian. i have yet to hear any actual argument concerning this... only your opinions g4, and opinions are like armpits... everyone has a few... and they stink.
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The only difference between them and the man in the world, is, They go to a church.
They can, and do what they want, as long as they go to confession, then after confesion they think they are justufied in God's sight.
hmmm. it seems that going to confession is at least an acknowledgement of doing wrong. i would be more concerned for those catholic who don't go to confession. further, if you truly see a problem with this, then what can you say about the evangelicals who get to sin because god already forgave them for it all? i honestly never did understand that one, even when i was an evangelical. they would make the same accusation about catholics and yet feel free to sin because they are already saved. i even remember one girl on "survivor" who said this right on tv... " i don't feel bad about lyin, cause god will forgive me anyway"..
sorry g4 but you need to think about things a little more before you start flippin out accusations. and keep in mind that when you point the finger, there are alway 3 fingers pointing back at you.
[1]There is a big difference between religion and regeneration, If you were a Christian You'd know that, But it only proves you aren't a Christian.
[2]Catholic aren't Christians, They exept the teachings of Rome rather tan the teachings of Christ.
[3] If you were a Christian, You'd go to God for forgiveness, Not the priest.
[4]If you were a Christian You would understand about God forgiving sins, But we still have to walk in Holiness, Forgiveness is't a licience to sin.
What was you saying about,"I NEED TO THINK BEFORE I ACCUSE"
You have just proved that I am right.
[5]You have to know, There is a differnce between someone saying they are a Christian, And being a Christian. Going to Church doesn't make you a Christian. There is a difference between So-called Christians and real Christians.
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[1]There is a big difference between religion and regeneration, If you were a Christian You'd know that, But it only proves you aren't a Christian.
Catholics do know that, you seem to be confused by it. A dictionary would be very beneficial to help you with your studies.
But if you think that a regenerated person is not religious, you should run not walk to the nearest book store and make that investment.
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Religious:
1 relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>
2 of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances <joined a religious order>
3 a: scrupulously and conscientiously faithful
b: fervent, zealous
Merriam-Webster Dictionary
That is what religious means. If you do not believe in God, are not devoted to the teachings of Christ, or are not faithful to Christ, then you are not religious. But this also does not sound like a person who has been regenerated either.
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[2]Catholic aren't Christians, They exept the teachings of Rome rather tan the teachings of Christ.
The pagan Romans taught about Jupiter, Juno and Heracles, etc. The Catholic Church teaches what Christ taught. But since you seem to think that regenerated people do not believe in God, perhaps you might also be a little confused on what Christ taught too.
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[3] If you were a Christian, You'd go to God for forgiveness, Not the priest.
A Christian would believe what Christ said about His giving His Apostles the authority to forgive sins, instead of still being stuck in the OT. Catholics still go to God for forgiveness, but they use the method set up by Christ.
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[4]If you were a Christian You would understand about God forgiving sins, But we still have to walk in Holiness, Forgiveness is't a licience to sin.
If you truly believed that, then you wouldnt't be telling people that backsliding doesn't lead Hell. Either we can sin or we can't.
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What was you saying about,"I NEED TO THINK BEFORE I ACCUSE"
You have just proved that I am right.
Slightly backwards. You demonstrated why he was right.
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[5]You have to know, There is a differnce between someone saying they are a Christian, And being a Christian. Going to Church doesn't make you a Christian. There is a difference between So-called Christians and real Christians.
Partly true, not all church-goers are necessarily Christians. But those that do not go to church without a very good reason are definitely not Christians.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
[1]There is a big difference between religion and regeneration, If you were a Christian You'd know that, But it only proves you aren't a Christian.
Catholics do know that, you seem to be confused by it. A dictionary would be very beneficial to help you with your studies.
But if you think that a regenerated person is not religious, you should run not walk to the nearest book store and make that investment.
quote:
Religious:
1 relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>
2 of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances <joined a religious order>
3 a: scrupulously and conscientiously faithful
b: fervent, zealous
Merriam-Webster Dictionary
That is what religious means. If you do not believe in God, are not devoted to the teachings of Christ, or are not faithful to Christ, then you are not religious. But this also does not sound like a person who has been regenerated either.
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[2]Catholic aren't Christians, They exept the teachings of Rome rather tan the teachings of Christ.
The pagan Romans taught about Jupiter, Juno and Heracles, etc. The Catholic Church teaches what Christ taught. But since you seem to think that regenerated people do not believe in God, perhaps you might also be a little confused on what Christ taught too.
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[3] If you were a Christian, You'd go to God for forgiveness, Not the priest.
A Christian would believe what Christ said about His giving His Apostles the authority to forgive sins, instead of still being stuck in the OT. Catholics still go to God for forgiveness, but they use the method set up by Christ.
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[4]If you were a Christian You would understand about God forgiving sins, But we still have to walk in Holiness, Forgiveness is't a licience to sin.
If you truly believed that, then you wouldnt't be telling people that backsliding doesn't lead Hell. Either we can sin or we can't.
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What was you saying about,"I NEED TO THINK BEFORE I ACCUSE"
You have just proved that I am right.
Slightly backwards. You demonstrated why he was right.
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[5]You have to know, There is a differnce between someone saying they are a Christian, And being a Christian. Going to Church doesn't make you a Christian. There is a difference between So-called Christians and real Christians.
Partly true, not all church-goers are necessarily Christians. But those that do not go to church without a very good reason are definitely not Christians.
[1] Missed heaven Mike thinks religion and regeneration are the same.
[2] Their is a big differnce between the dictioary definition of, "Religion" and the religious church's defintion of it.
[3] My point ecactly, Catholics don't believe in God, God's way, They beilive in God the Rome way, The devil also believes in God.
[4] Everyone of us should forgive sins, Not just a priest, There is a big difference between forgivind and remiting sins. When Jesus said to the Disciples, "Who's sins you remit, they are remitted", He was saying they have the right to tell the repentant person,
"You are forgiven".
Jesus said in Lk 7: 48--50, "Thy sins are forgiven, Because you believe, you are saved from your sins", That is the same pricable Jesus meant for the disciples in Jn 20: 23.
You can't build a doctrine on one scripture.
[5] Backslider could miss out on the rapture, But they would most likly go to heaven in the mid-trib rapture, They would have to not believe in God at all to go to hell.
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[1] Missed heaven Mike thinks religion and regeneration are the same.
That is not what he said. Read it again.
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[2] Their is a big differnce between the dictioary definition of, "Religion" and the religious church's defintion of it.
Nope. Even the dictionary also includes religeous as a noun to include clergy and nuns, but that isn't what Mike was talking about or me. Religious as an adjective is the same inside the Church and out - you just do not know anything about the Catholic Church to make that comparison. And not much about definitions either it seems.
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[3] My point ecactly, Catholics don't believe in God, God's way, They beilive in God the Rome way, The devil also believes in God.
What exactly is "the Rome way"? Catholics believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of Heaven and Earth.... (go read our Creed to get the rest). The Rome way believed in Jupitor and Juno and Heracles and others. But the Catholic way is the way Christ taught us.
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[4] Everyone of us should forgive sins, Not just a priest, There is a big difference between forgivind and remiting sins. When Jesus said to the Disciples, "Who's sins you remit, they are remitted", He was saying they have the right to tell the repentant person, "You are forgiven".
Yes. You and I can forgive those who wronged us personally. But we cannot remit even those sins. Jesus told the Apostles (the twelve Disciples He was speaking to would become His Apostles) that they could remit sins. That is so huge. Get a dictionary to find out what remit means. They can also retain sins - that we cannot do.
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Jesus said in Lk 7: 48--50, "Thy sins are forgiven, Because you believe, you are saved from your sins", That is the same pricable Jesus meant for the disciples in Jn 20: 23.
Jesus was speaking to a specific woman and He forgave her directly. Generally, people can only forgive the wrongs against themselves, but Jesus and those He gave explicit authority can forgive any and all sins.
James 5, shows that it was still the Presbyters who could forgive sins and not the lay Christian.
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You can't build a doctrine on one scripture.
I haven't. But you play a risky game if you think that Jesus really needed to repeat Himself. God Speaks, I listen.
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[5] Backslider could miss out on the rapture, But they would most likly go to heaven in the mid-trib rapture, They would have to not believe in God at all to go to hell.
That is not what the Bible says. There is no mid-trib rapture. When we rise up in the "rapture", it is Judgement Day. After that it is Heaven or Hell for eternity.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Member since 03/06/2010
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
[1] Missed heaven Mike thinks religion and regeneration are the same.
That is not what he said. Read it again.
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[2] Their is a big differnce between the dictioary definition of, "Religion" and the religious church's defintion of it.
Nope. Even the dictionary also includes religeous as a noun to include clergy and nuns, but that isn't what Mike was talking about or me. Religious as an adjective is the same inside the Church and out - you just do not know anything about the Catholic Church to make that comparison. And not much about definitions either it seems.
quote:
[3] My point ecactly, Catholics don't believe in God, God's way, They beilive in God the Rome way, The devil also believes in God.
What exactly is "the Rome way"? Catholics believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of Heaven and Earth.... (go read our Creed to get the rest). The Rome way believed in Jupitor and Juno and Heracles and others. But the Catholic way is the way Christ taught us.
quote:
[4] Everyone of us should forgive sins, Not just a priest, There is a big difference between forgivind and remiting sins. When Jesus said to the Disciples, "Who's sins you remit, they are remitted", He was saying they have the right to tell the repentant person, "You are forgiven".
Yes. You and I can forgive those who wronged us personally. But we cannot remit even those sins. Jesus told the Apostles (the twelve Disciples He was speaking to would become His Apostles) that they could remit sins. That is so huge. Get a dictionary to find out what remit means. They can also retain sins - that we cannot do.
quote:
Jesus said in Lk 7: 48--50, "Thy sins are forgiven, Because you believe, you are saved from your sins", That is the same pricable Jesus meant for the disciples in Jn 20: 23.
Jesus was speaking to a specific woman and He forgave her directly. Generally, people can only forgive the wrongs against themselves, but Jesus and those He gave explicit authority can forgive any and all sins.
James 5, shows that it was still the Presbyters who could forgive sins and not the lay Christian.
quote:
You can't build a doctrine on one scripture.
I haven't. But you play a risky game if you think that Jesus really needed to repeat Himself. God Speaks, I listen.
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[5] Backslider could miss out on the rapture, But they would most likly go to heaven in the mid-trib rapture, They would have to not believe in God at all to go to hell.
That is not what the Bible says. There is no mid-trib rapture. When we rise up in the "rapture", it is Judgement Day. After that it is Heaven or Hell for eternity.
[1] Missed heaven Mike said, "Religion is relationship" You can't have a relationship with God without being regenerated, READ HIM AGAIN.
[2] I know enough about catholic to know they are religious, not regenerated, I know some catholics who were baptised into the catholic faith But they swear, tell dirty jokes, Smoke drink lie, They sat they are religious, They are but they are not regenerated. One of these catolics thinks because he was baptised as an infant, He'll make it into heaven through purgatory.
[3] You know what I mean by, "The Rome way", What the pope says.
The devil also believes, he is religious he goes to church more times then some church members, There is a big difference between saying the creed parrot fashion and being a Christian.
[4] No man can forgive sinns [As in remmit], Only God does that.
The Presbyters are not priests, SO THAT RULES THEM OUT FORGIVING PEOPLE. Priests are not Christians so how can one sinner tell another sinner thet are forgiven??
YOU HAVE BUILT A DOCTINE ON ONE SCRIPTURE, stop telling lies.
If you was to look at James 5: 16, It says confess your faults one to another, Not just to the Elders. You don't half take scripture out of context to fit your evil doctrines.
[5]Jesus is speaking to us specificatly Through the Bible, He has forgiven our sinns directly.
[7] You said I am playing a risky gave if I think Jesus needs to repeat Himself, Are you saying you only need one scripture to build a doctrine.
 If you knew the Bible you would know that there are seven raptures, Three have already happend, The next rapture isn't the judgment day.
There is a mid-trib rapture. YOU DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE BIBLE ON ANY SUJECT DO YOU. That's because you aren't born again and the things of God are Spiritualy discerned.
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quote:
a regenerated person is religious, and a catholic is a christian.
That is what Mike said. I guess you just can't help yourself - if you see it in print, you just have to twist it around.
Until you learn to read what is actually there, then there is little point is discussing anything with you.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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I duo, nuo, i hate closet drinkers, YoU?
baby3
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I keep wondering if someone took "Tokin' the Ghost" a little too literally. Of course, one would have to be on something to think tokin' anything was a good idea.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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