The meaning of a christian been justified, holy !

quote:

---

Originally posted by evangelist

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

quote:

---

Originally posted by evangelist

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Amen brother. We can't choose sin and still be righteous.

If we do sin we must repent of that sin. That is what my signature blurb is all about. Confessing my sins and returning to full righteousness in Christ.

If any say that they do not have sin, they are a liar and have no part in Christ. But a sinner that admits to being a sinner and seeks forgiveness will always be granted this. The Bible says so.

---

did Jesus died for all sins or only till the next time you sin?

One love

---

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. The way we receive this forgiveness is by repenting.

If we sin again after having all our PAST sins forgiven, then we must repent of those new sins. The Bible is clear on this.

Not once have you produced a single passage that says that future sins are automatically forgiven.

I have shown you several verses that prove this is not the case. Please deal with those verses before spouting your gospel of Evangelist. I only accept the Gospel of Christ.

---

What happen to that born again saved christian who didn't repent of a new sin do they go straight to hell because the loving mercyful God of our grace threw them out because of a unforgiven sin or two is this what you and your catholic society teaches and believe is the true gospel???

one love

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by evangelist

What is justification?

This is the non catholic biblical teaching on kustification


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Question: "What is justification?"

Answer: Simply put, to justify is to declare righteous, to make one right with God. Justification is God’s declaring those who receive Christ to be righteous, based on Christ’s righteousness being imputed to the accounts of those who receive Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21). Though justification as a principle is found throughout Scripture, the main passage describing justification in relation to believers is Romans 3:21-26: “But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.”

Up to this point, AMEN. This is solid Catholic teaching. And if you stop right there and not "read" anything else into this passage, you would do well. It says what it says. This is a different translation than I am used to, and it is a little confusing in its wording, but even here it says that past sins are forgiven. Not future sins.

We are justified, declared righteous, at the moment of our salvation. Justification does not make us righteous, but rather pronounces us righteous. Our righteousness comes from placing our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ. His sacrifice covers our sin, allowing God to see us as perfect and unblemished. Because as believers we are in Christ, God sees Christ's own righteousness when He looks at us. This meets God's demands for perfection; thus, He declares us righteous—He justifies us.

See, there is the problem. Somebody read the passage and liked what Paul wrote, but didn't think it went far enough so they added commentary to make it into something different from what it actually said.

When we are born again, we are not just declared righteous, we are MADE righteous. We are TRULY righteous. Our past sins are forgiven. We are cleansed from all unrighteousness at that moment in time.

Romans 5:18-19 sums it up well: “Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.” It is because of justification that the peace of God can rule in our lives. It is because of justification that believers can have assurance of salvation. It is the fact of justification that enables God to begin the process of sanctification—the process by which God makes us in reality what we already are positionally. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1).

For all men. Not just Christians? In deed, Jesus did die for the entire human race. Many will be made righteous. But this does not guarantee that we will remain righteous. We were declared righteous because we were made righteous. Jesus spoke the whole universe into existance, He can declare something and have it so.

Made righteous and given the grace to continue in our sanctification - this is a process. And one that must be completed before we die. We can reach this point at any time in our life, but we must reach it. But of course, we don't do this by ourselves. By ourselves it would be impossible, but with Christ, all things are possible.

So now my catholic friends can you tell me from your catholic view what is justification????

thank you

one love

---

quote:

---

2018 Like conversion, justification has two aspects. Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, and so accepts forgiveness and righteousness from on high.

2019 Justification includes the remission of sins, sanctification, and the renewal of the inner man.

2020 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ. It is granted us through Baptism. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who justifies us. It has for its goal the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life. It is the most excellent work of God's mercy.

---

quote:

---

To be justified means that in the eyes of God you are in equal standing with Jesus Christ.

---

quote:

---

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/index/j.htm

Justification

conversion precedes, 1989
definition and significance of, 1987, 1989, 1991-92
effects of, 1266, 1990
forgiveness and justice from on high as aspects of, 2018
as the most excellent work of God's love, 1994
purpose for justifying men, 402, 617, 654, 1987, 1992
ways to receive, 1446, 1996, 2001

---

quote:

---

1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ" and through Baptism:34


But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35
1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ's Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36


[God] gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature. . . . For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37
1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."38 Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.39

1990 Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God's merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.

1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or "justice") here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.

1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:40


But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.41
1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God's grace and man's freedom. On man's part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:


When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight.42
1994 Justification is the most excellent work of God's love made manifest in Christ Jesus and granted by the Holy Spirit. It is the opinion of St. Augustine that "the justification of the wicked is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth," because "heaven and earth will pass away but the salvation and justification of the elect . . . will not pass away."43 He holds also that the justification of sinners surpasses the creation of the angels in justice, in that it bears witness to a greater mercy.

1995 The Holy Spirit is the master of the interior life. By giving birth to the "inner man,"44 justification entails the sanctification of his whole being:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by evangelist

So let me get you clear , are you saying we are only justified until the next time we sin, and then we get unjustified and unmade righteous in Christ when we sin, so it is not a done deal and finished work of Christ??

one love

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

quote:

---

Originally posted by evangelist

So let me get you clear , are you saying we are only justified until the next time we sin, and then we get unjustified and unmade righteous in Christ when we sin, so it is not a done deal and finished work of Christ??

one love

---

Christ finished His work. We still need to do ours.

1 John 1:9 says that when we confess our sins we are cleansed of all unrighteousness. Ergo, we were unrighteous in our sins, and needed to confess to get clean again.

James 5:14-15 shows that if we have sins they are NOT automatically forgiven, but can be forgiven if we do what the Scriptures prescribe.

Why you keep preaching - one shot, done deal? The Bible never teaches that.

The parable of the sower in Matthew 13 shows why this is a false doctrine. And Paul and James and others take great pains to explain that there is no such thing as once save always saved unless you literally reject Christ. Why won't you accept their words?

---

quote:

---

If it is not a done deal then Jesus has to be put on the cross again and again to get that new sin forgiven so don't you see how your belief system is in error??

Jesus transferred His authority to forgive sins (one of the things that the Jewish High Priest & et al used to kill Jesus) to the Apostles in the Upper Room upon His Resurrection.

The authority of the Apostles (Apostolic Succession) transfers into each generation.

Reconciliation through the successors of the Apostles was practiced in Sacred Scripture, as was Eucharist.


You are also adding your merits onto Christ which is showing Jesus blood and redemption is not strong enough to forgive your sins!

Conversion from sin to Christ - repentance is a conscience act of humility; a person needs to become like a child.

You are going by the old testament ritual of the system of getting your sins sacrafice like mention in this scripture:

Heb:10:1: For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb:10:2: For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb:10:3: But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

They did it yearly and you are doing the exact same thing and system just putting Jesus on the cross instead of using animal, but you are going by the same process as mention above in Hebrews 10, and not is not the new covenenat gospel Christian have!

Jesus is the Pascal Lamb. Like the Israelites, we eat His body for our salvation. (Jesus pointedly said that we must do this).

St. Paul taught "Christ crucified." The Catholic Church continues his Apostolic tradition.

If you are believing only in the OT ways to get your sins forgiven then you better never forget or do one sin, and don't get caught doing an unknown sin or you are going to hell according to your system and beliefs!

You're not Catholic so you won't know that there are 3 requirements for mortal sin. In addition, the Catholic Church has online guides for the clarification of mortal sins. These can be found online by google searching "adult examination of sins".

That is not the NT gospel!

The New Testament is a fulfillment of the Old Testament. Reconciliation through Jesus, through His ordained priesthood is in Sacred Scripture, in the New Testament.

quote:

---

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be answerable for the body and blood of the Lord.

Examine yourselves, and only then eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

For all who eat and drink without discerning the body, eat and drink judgment against themselves. I Corinthians 11:27-29

---

Knowing this what you quoted shows me exactly why you think sin is a issue and why you have an error on justification, righteousness and sanctification!
The OT people had the same problem and that is bad news!

Martin Luther was an excommunicated Catholic priest. He had to revision Sacred Scripture in order that his congregation not think him a heretic.

For 1,500 years, prior to Luther, the Church was Baptizing, hearing confession, celebrating Eucharist, etc.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Evangelist, wrong. There is no need for Christ to die again, His merits are sufficient for all mankind forever more.

BUT, the Bible clearly states that we must repent of our sins to be saved. And if we sin again, we must repent again.

The OT is preparation for the NEW, the old was a shadow of our reality.

You seem tho think that the OT was a mistake. That God failed.

That is nonsense. If I were still folloing the OT system, I would have to stone you for having committed adultery. But this is no longer required, thanks be to Christ. Now all you have to do is repent. The once for all sacrifice has already been made on your behalf.

Read the rest of Hebrews 10, especially verses 25 to 31.

He wasn't speaking of rejecting Christ, when he wrote of sinning willfully. If there were only one sin, then he would have named the one sin for clarity. The rest of the Bible proves conclusively that there are many serious sins that will send us to Hell if we don't repent of them.

When you were born again, every sin that you had repented of was forgiven and will never be remembered. But, you can't repent of sins that you never knew that you would commit in the future.

Under the OT, a serious sin would require your physical death. Other sins would require the sacrifice of animals. We don't need to do this anymore. Under the NT, we repent of sins and seek God's forgiveness.

Jesus said we could do this as often as we needed to. We are children by adoption and are free to approach the throne boldly, asking for whatever we need. Why are you afraid to approach God's throne? You did it once, and now you seem to never want to do it ever again. Was the first time that terrifying, or is the prospect of giving up sin just too much for you?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by bwellmysoul

quote:

---

If it is not a done deal then Jesus has to be put on the cross again and again to get that new sin forgiven so don't you see how your belief system is in error??

Jesus transferred His authority to forgive sins (one of the things that the Jewish High Priest & et al used to kill Jesus) to the Apostles in the Upper Room upon His Resurrection.

The authority of the Apostles (Apostolic Succession) transfers into each generation.

Reconciliation through the successors of the Apostles was practiced in Sacred Scripture, as was Eucharist.


You are also adding your merits onto Christ which is showing Jesus blood and redemption is not strong enough to forgive your sins!

Conversion from sin to Christ - repentance is a conscience act of humility; a person needs to become like a child.

You are going by the old testament ritual of the system of getting your sins sacrafice like mention in this scripture:

Heb:10:1: For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb:10:2: For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb:10:3: But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

They did it yearly and you are doing the exact same thing and system just putting Jesus on the cross instead of using animal, but you are going by the same process as mention above in Hebrews 10, and not is not the new covenenat gospel Christian have!

Jesus is the Pascal Lamb. Like the Israelites, we eat His body for our salvation. (Jesus pointedly said that we must do this).

St. Paul taught "Christ crucified." The Catholic Church continues his Apostolic tradition.

If you are believing only in the OT ways to get your sins forgiven then you better never forget or do one sin, and don't get caught doing an unknown sin or you are going to hell according to your system and beliefs!

You're not Catholic so you won't know that there are 3 requirements for mortal sin. In addition, the Catholic Church has online guides for the clarification of mortal sins. These can be found online by google searching "adult examination of sins".

That is not the NT gospel!

The New Testament is a fulfillment of the Old Testament. Reconciliation through Jesus, through His ordained priesthood is in Sacred Scripture, in the New Testament.

quote:

---

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be answerable for the body and blood of the Lord.

Examine yourselves, and only then eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

For all who eat and drink without discerning the body, eat and drink judgment against themselves. I Corinthians 11:27-29

---

Knowing this what you quoted shows me exactly why you think sin is a issue and why you have an error on justification, righteousness and sanctification!
The OT people had the same problem and that is bad news!

Martin Luther was an excommunicated Catholic priest. He had to revision Sacred Scripture in order that his congregation not think him a heretic.

For 1,500 years, prior to Luther, the Church was Baptizing, hearing confession, celebrating Eucharist, etc.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by evangelist

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Evangelist, wrong. There is no need for Christ to die again, His merits are sufficient for all mankind forever more.

BUT, the Bible clearly states that we must repent of our sins to be saved. And if we sin again, we must repent again.

The OT is preparation for the NEW, the old was a shadow of our reality.

You seem tho think that the OT was a mistake. That God failed.

That is nonsense. If I were still folloing the OT system, I would have to stone you for having committed adultery. But this is no longer required, thanks be to Christ. Now all you have to do is repent. The once for all sacrifice has already been made on your behalf.

Read the rest of Hebrews 10, especially verses 25 to 31.

He wasn't speaking of rejecting Christ, when he wrote of sinning willfully. If there were only one sin, then he would have named the one sin for clarity. The rest of the Bible proves conclusively that there are many serious sins that will send us to Hell if we don't repent of them.

When you were born again, every sin that you had repented of was forgiven and will never be remembered. But, you can't repent of sins that you never knew that you would commit in the future.

Under the OT, a serious sin would require your physical death. Other sins would require the sacrifice of animals. We don't need to do this anymore. Under the NT, we repent of sins and seek God's forgiveness.

Jesus said we could do this as often as we needed to. We are children by adoption and are free to approach the throne boldly, asking for whatever we need. Why are you afraid to approach God's throne? You did it once, and now you seem to never want to do it ever again. Was the first time that terrifying, or is the prospect of giving up sin just too much for you?

---

Sorry but I don't believe in a momentary redemption like you and that is an issue with you guys!

Since the actual redemption does not take place until after we die, there is no such thing as momentary redemption.

But with respect to your view of it, there is little difference between us. Even you admit that if a born again Christian rejects Christ he will lose his salvation. So where is your "eternal redemption"? It does not exist.

Again what is better a momentary redemption or a eternal redemption??

Since redemption takes place after we die, there can't momentary redemption. Once we have endured to the end, our redemption is fulfilled. Those that have returned to their former master, loose their redemption as they have made a choice that is not Christ.

Eph:4:23: And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;Eph:4:24: And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

one love

---