Many Christians Don't know the basic gospel!

quote:

---

Originally posted by mikejuli

Time and order? Of course I'm thinking about that Evan. Start making sense. Look if you think baptism is really just the same as circumcision then explain why Jesus and the church practiced it. Your problem Evan is that you really have no clue what the bible and chrisitanity really teach. You bought some cheesy apologetics and are completey blinded by them. You cannot even rightly divide word.. Being confused about something as simple as baptism only demonstrates my claim. If baptism is an old testament work of the law then show me who in the old testament was preaching to repent and be baptized.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by evangelist

quote:

---

Originally posted by mikejuli

Time and order? Of course I'm thinking about that Evan. Start making sense. Look if you think baptism is really just the same as circumcision then explain why Jesus and the church practiced it. Your problem Evan is that you really have no clue what the bible and chrisitanity really teach. You bought some cheesy apologetics and are completey blinded by them. You cannot even rightly divide word.. Being confused about something as simple as baptism only demonstrates my claim. If baptism is an old testament work of the law then show me who in the old testament was preaching to repent and be baptized.

---

John the baptist!

Col:2:11: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col:2:12: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col:2:13: And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;Col:2:14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Baptismal Regeneration

By David J. Stewart

BAPTISMAL REGENERATION is the unbiblical teaching that a person MUST be water baptized in order to go to Heaven. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Word of God is abundantly clear that Baptism is only an ordinance, to be observed by each individual believer AFTER salvation, as a public profession of one's faith in Jesus Christ.B Baptism is symbolic of Christ's death, burial and resurrection (Romans 6:4-5); and is our public profession of faith. baptism is NOT a sacrament, i.e., there is no mystical power (efficacy) by being dunked in water. No grace is bestowed. Apart from water baptism's spiritual meaning, you are only getting wet. Being baptized doesn't make someone a believer, anymore than walking into a garage makes someone an automobile. As mentioned, water baptism is symbolic of the Lord's death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:4-5). In water baptism, we are identifying ourselves with our Savior, signifying that we have already believed on Him. Nowhere in the Bible was anyone ever baptized; until AFTER they were saved.

The Apostle John tells us exactly why he wrote the Epistle of 1st John in 1st John 5:13... “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” John states that the sole purpose of his Epistle is to teach us how to KNOW we are saved. Carefully notice that John NEVER mentions the word “baptism,” not even once. That speaks volumes!
John doesn't mention speaking-in-tongues either, solid proof that Charismatics who require tongues as initial evidence of salvation are wrong, wrong, wrong.

Baptismal Regeneration is a lie of the Devil. Romans 4:5 plainly states... “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” How much clearer could the Bible be? A person's faith in Jesus Christ is COUNTED for righteousness. Salvation is of God, and not men. We are saved by HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS; and not our own self-righteousness... but to him that worketh not. In view of such plain Scriptural teachings, how could anyone teach or believe that water baptism is required to be forgiven of one's sins? It is utter heresy! Many people ask me about Acts 2:38. Others ask me about 1st Peter 3:21. Please read, What is Baptism?

Consider that the Bible doesn't mention anyone being baptized with water in the Old Testament for salvation. Genesis 15:6 teaches that Abram (later to be renamed Abraham) believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness. Romans 4:3 mentions this event, i.e., Abraham's salvation. We are saved by the imputed righteousness of Christ, i.e., Jesus' righteousness is attributed to our record in Heaven by faith (Romans 4:6). Abraham was saved by simple childlike faith in the Lord.

This thief on the cross who believed on Jesus Christ wasn't water baptized.

Over and over the Bible tells us that we are saved BY FAITH alone (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5; Acts 10:43; John 1:12; Galatians 3:26; John 3:16-18). If water baptism were required for salvation, then certainly the Bible would stress its importance for salvation. In fact, the Apostle Paul stated the opposite in 1st Corinthians 1:17, “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” Paul proclaimed that Jesus DIDN'T send him to baptize. There you have it! Paul stated in Romans 10:1 that his heart's desire was for Israel to be saved, so Paul definitely would NOT have made such a statement in 1st Corinthians 1:17 if water baptism were necessary to be saved. Amen!

Sacraments are Unbiblical

Water baptism is an ordinance, like the Lord's Supper. Those are the only 2 ordinances which the Lord ordained to be carried out by the New Testament Church. They are NOT “sacraments,” a term not even found in the Word of God. Sacraments are unbiblical. Catholics teach 7 sacraments; and Protestants, such as Presbyterians and Lutherans, teach 2 sacraments: Holy Baptism and Holy Communion. Neither of these terms are found in the Bible. There is no such thing as Holy Baptism” (which is their term for water baptism).

Protestantism is not taught in the Bible. Every Protestant believes in sacraments and the heresy of Infant Baptism. I don't follow John Calvin nor Jacob Arminius, nor do I follow the Westminster Confession as Presbyterians do. I certainly don't follow John MacArthur as Lordship Salvationists like Ray Comfort, Jack Chick and Kirk Cameron do. I SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES as Jesus commanded in John 5:39!

my source:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/Baptismal%20Regeneration/br.htm

one love

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Well, I was excited there for a moment. You quoted Paul's evidence and explanation for Baptismal Regeneration, then you posted an explanation for why you or someone else thinks that Paul is a bald-faced liar.

I never thought I would see the day when you would turn on your own hero.

Paul would be horrified to see his words twisted so much as to be unrecognizable.

Colossians 2:11-14 Col:2:11: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Col:2:12: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Col:2:13: And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Col:2:14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Baptism is the circumcision made without hands, whereby we put off the sins of the flesh. Paul is no longer talking about the baptism of John the Baptist, but of Christian Baptism.

If we are not baptized, the how can we rise with Christ at the Resurrection? Can you be saved if you refuse this act? Jesus can make exceptions for those who had no opportunity - but for those who have opportunity but reject Christ's OFFER, can hardly expect to be saved.

This is not an ordinance to be blotted out. How rude to call a gift from God some lowly ordinance.

If I believed that baptism was a dead work to be carried out for the reasons you gave, I would reject Christianity as a fraud, and denounce Jesus as being some trickster who tried to decieve others by pretending to be someone other than the son of mere carpenter.

The ordinances from the Mosaic covenant are fullfilled, that is why none of my children are circumcized. That is why I never offered two turtle-doves as sacrifice to purify myself when each of my children were born. This is why, I don't travel with my family to Jerusalem every year at Passover.

But what is your excuse? You seem to think that Jesus came to give us more dead works. If that were true, then why do we have to do it at all.

If Baptism is nothing more than an ordinance, and all ordinances were nailed to the Cross, then all who were ever baptized are damned to Hell for engaging in dead works.

After all, James said that if we are doing dead works, then we are subject to the whole of the LAW from the OT, every single one of the 613 laws of the Mosaic covenant. And if we break even one of them, we are guilty of all of them.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Close. It is an outward sign of an inward grace. As such it is a visible sign of something that is invisible. But the invisible did not happen first. It happened at the same time.

The only place in the Bible where the Holy Spirit came down ahead of water baptism was with Cornelius and his household - but this was not an invisible event - everyone could see it - the purpose was a sign so that the original Christians who were all JEWISH, would know that God really did intend to include Gentiles in the New Covenant.

Acts 19 proves that what happened in Acts 10 was a special event and not the norm.

In Acts 19 these believers had NOT received the Holy Spirit. They believed. They followed Christ. But they had not received the Holy Spirit, because they had not been baptized with Christian Baptism, only John's Baptism.

Baptism is when we are born again. The Greek phrase for born again also means born from above. It refers to when we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which we receive when we are baptized with water.

This is how it has always been.

In Acts 8, Simon saw what happened when the Apostles were baptizing and wanted to buy this amazing ability.

Only those who had been baptized into Christ had received the Holy Ghost - that is what is says in the scriptures.

When speaking of being born again, Jesus said that we must be born of water and spirit, not just one or the other. If Spirit baptism was a separate event and accomplished all that you said, then water baptism would be unnecessary. Just a dead work.

Jesus healed a blind man with mud and spit. He could have just healed him. After all, Jesus healed the centurion's servant from a distance, without even having met the servant. Jesus wanted to show that He could use ordinary things to accomplish miracles.

Jesus also insisted that He be baptized by John the Baptist. Why? Jesus had no sin to wash away. But something very remarkable happened that day. Yet, you seem to think nothing of it. Just a flashy show?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

According to the Bible, it does happen at the same time.

Acts 19 proves that this does NOT happen when we first come to believe. Belief alone does NOT bring the Holy Spirit.

In the parable of the sower, yes hearing comes first, then belief - but whether this amounts to anything depends on the soil. If it is fertile, then the word will take root, and only then with our positive response, will we be part of the Body of Christ.

Not all who hear will believe, not all who believe will have an enduring faith. Not all of these will be saved.

Baptism is the committment that takes us from mental assent to salvation.

This is the difference between a sacramental marriage and picking up a street corner hooker for a quick shag in a bathroom stall. In the latter case, she may squeal and say she loves you, but it doesn't last.

---