What is meant by saying we are made righteous?
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I think this might opem many truth and solve alot of issues and misunderstanding about the good gospel and also who we are in Christ Jesus and about , the do's and don'Ts some say we have to do to get on God side , or get saved, redeemed, justified and holy!To start I more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 11/27/2011 16:05:31
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I don't listen to heretics.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I don't listen to heretics.
At least you know how we think and why we don't listen to a pope or your heretic society church catholic is for the exact same reason!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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What heresy does the pope or the Catholic Church teach?
Remember, it must go against the Bible and Jesus Christ, not just against your religious philosophy.
Wommack contradicts the Bible and teaches things that could cause people to end up in Hell.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
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Originally posted by evangelist
Can we say our repentance as born again believer is under a type of on going Constitution ??
one love
Not really. I don't know many people who are in a constant state of repenting. They are either extremely scrupulous or lack faith in Christ's promise to forgive.
We only need to repent when we have actually committed a sin. Our past sins are forgiven when we are born again, and when we repent of them. So any prior reconciliations have remitted those sins. Only new sins committed since the last time need to be repented of.
But only the blood can wash that new sin away, and the blood of Jesus was spread 2000 years ago so how can Jesus spead His blood for us again today??
You are using a OT doctrine according to :
Heb:10:3: But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
You are not doing it every year but the exact sane concept everytime you do sin, and that is not the true gospel!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I don't listen to heretics.
I know how you feel, that is exactly my experience against your catholics priest, popes and a cardinals!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
What heresy does the pope or the Catholic Church teach?
Remember, it must go against the Bible and Jesus Christ, not just against your religious philosophy.
Wommack contradicts the Bible and teaches things that could cause people to end up in Hell.
The first false unbiblical heresy is your purgatory, second prayers for the dead, which is like talking to a dead wall!
Your work system vs righteousness and justification is another kick in God face , and a infant unbiblical baptism which you are only getting a infant wet with no effect from the Kingdom of God!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
How is purgatory heretical?
How is prayers for the dead heretical?
I can see that they present a problem for your modern religious philosophy, but hardly against the Bible.
If you had a whole Bible you would see that the Jews were praying for their dead in purgatory long before Christ became incarnate. And they still do - although they do hate the Greek term.
And are you condemning God for having infant sons circumcised? It was his idea.
And Baptism is the new circumcision. And in the early Church infants were baptized, and even the Bible states that entire households were baptized without exception.
Now if you want to talk "unbiblical" = sinner's prayer for salvation. Jack Chick preaches this, and inside the pocket-sized KJV New Testament and Psalms is a little sinner's prayer that people are encouraged to say and then sign as a contract between new Christians and God.
While I would not go so far as to call that a heresy, the sinner's prayer is not only unBiblical, it is downright dangerous as this often leaves new Christians stillborn - no support, no further instruction or teaching unless they find away to get in touch with the group that provided the Bible or tract.
Baptism is very effective, the Bible shows this clearly. And not only that, according to Paul, infants of believers are HOLY whereas the children of unbelievers are not. This makes infants of believers eligible for baptism.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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But, thanks for the short list. We can focus on those for a good start.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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[quote]Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
How is purgatory heretical?
How is prayers for the dead heretical?
I can see that they present a problem for your modern religious philosophy, but hardly against the Bible.
If you had a whole Bible you would see that the Jews were praying for their dead in purgatory long before Christ became incarnate. And they still do - although they do hate the Greek term.
And are you condemning God for having infant sons circumcised? It was his idea.
And Baptism is the new circumcision. And in the early Church infants were baptized, and even the Bible states that entire households were baptized without exception.
Now if you want to talk "unbiblical" = sinner's prayer for salvation. Jack Chick preaches this, and inside the pocket-sized KJV New Testament and Psalms is a little sinner's prayer that people are encouraged to say and then sign as a contract between new Christians and God.
While I would not go so far as to call that a heresy, the sinner's prayer is not only unBiblical, it is downright dangerous as this often leaves new Christians stillborn - no support, no further instruction or teaching unless they find away to get in touch with the group that provided the Bible or tract.
Baptism is very effective, the Bible shows this clearly. And not only that, according to Paul, infants of believers are HOLY whereas the children of unbelievers are not. This makes infants of believers eligible for baptism.
[/quote
Purgatory is an enemy of the cross and the blood of Jesus!
Jesus is the way the truth and life not a purgatory so that why it is a lie from the pits of hell!
Prayers for the dead is demonic because the bible says after death the judgements and Jesus is the only mediator not you or a church trying to mediate in place of Jesus, and the bible say now is the time of salvation and that is only for the living not the dead, so if they didn't accept all the blessing and eternal redemption while living it is to late read:Eph:1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
So if they did not accept and know this truth it is too late, and there is not we can do to change God Word, or get God to break His promise to us as believers, so this is a good biblical reason why your dead prayers to them can bless them or have any effect!
The only way you can say this is untrue is to show the bible contradict itself!
Infants can't believe and trust, because they first have to learn to believe and accept, and they are not at the age of understanding to do that or even read God Word to see the truth in God word for themselves, but we can follow Jesus example for infabt to bless them and pray for them while they are alive!
Roman 10 is the biblical confession we teach, but coming forward in a meeting is not biblical as such but an example of you not being ashame of your salvation and justification as been born again and to stand for Jesus with no fear!
It is a good testimony just like a water baptism is another testimony for all to see what happen in the unseen spirit Kingdom of God!
But getting back to this topic this verse will help to show how we got righteous unless you interpretate this scripture to say Jesus was not worthy and pure for us to be perfect and sinless in our spirits as Him!
2Co:5:21: For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
You need to know the too good new is that there was a change in places when we got saved and is on going , and we call that etenal redemption to us and for us!
Now that is real love imputted to us!WWWOOOWW! 
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 12/19/2011 02:12:15
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You have explained that you disagree with Purgatory, but not why you think it is dangerous, nor have you provided any Biblical support for your position.
For my part, the Jews were praying for the dead in Purgatory long before Christ and have continued this practice. They were not praying for those in Hell as this would be a waste, and not for those who were righteous as that would be unnecessary. The historic examples show that they did pray for those who were not completely rightous and even named their sins.
This was what God set up and it did not go away just because Christ came. That would imply that God made a mistake and needed to correct it by punishing His Son.
Purgatory is not a denial of Christ or His work for us. On the contrary. Purgatory is what ensures that we can enter Heaven. It is like Heaven's doormat where any leftover "dirt" is cleansed from us, should there be any left when we die.
And don't go saying anything unbiblical like Jesus made a one-shot deal of perfect cleanliness when we were born again. The Bible says NO.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
The context for this verse shows clearly that the author is writing to born again believers, and he is warning them not to walk in darkness (sin), and he does say that those who walk in darkness do not have fellowship with them (Christians). But he also gives a message of hope - indicating that yes we Christians do sin sometimes, but if we confess our sins, Jesus will forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If born again Christians were permanently righteous, then this would have been an untrue statement. Tread carefully before you go calling any author of sacred scripture a liar.
James 5:14-15 14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
James wasn't writing to pagans or unbelievers of any kind. He was writing to born again believers. And yet, the prayer of faith shall save them - so they were not saved prior to this - and their sins forgiven - so those sins were NOT forgiven previously.
You keep coming up with excuses as to why you believe the writings really meant something other than what they said. This is called twisting the scriptures.
No revelation knowledge makes the Scriptures say anything different from what they clearly state - that is called strong delusion.
Deeper knowledge makes things clearer, not different.
Here is something else that I have yet to hear from a Protestant:
James 5:19-20 19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
If any of YOU BRETHREN, in other words a born again Christian errs, we are to help him come back to the TRUTH, but this is not just the truth of Christ as our saviour, but of sin in general. Because in the second verse it refers to saving a soul from death (spiritual death/damnation) and hiding a multitude of sins - not just one sin.
So clearly born again Christians can have sin counted against them after coming to Christ.
Read 2 Peter 2, the whole thing - slowly and let it sink in without trying to impose your own religious philosophy onto it. Just let the text speak for itself.
2 Peter 2:18-20 18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
Those that were clean escaped for those who live in error - this refers to those who were born again. But those that life in error seek to ensare through LUSTs of the flesh, wantonness, etc. These are CARNAL sins.
None of this B.S. of trying to say that Jesus is not Lord, or that He didn't save us. NO. They seek to deceive through the use of SINs of the FLESH. Desire, temptation. These are the tools of the Devil. He doesn't care if we believe in Jesus. He prefers if we don't believe in him, Satan, or forget that he, Satan, exists.
He wants born again Christians to commit sins. He wants born again Christians to believe that sin is no longer an issue. This is his great lie.
The context is absolutely clear in 2 Peter 2, if we born again Christians fall back into the trap of carnal sin, then it will be worse for us born again Christians than if we had never believed in Jesus Christ.
This is not something to fear, Peter gives the solution earlier on in that same chapter:
2 Peter 2:9-10 9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
The sin of the angels (those who fell) was not that they did not beleive in Jesus, but that they rebelled.
Rebellion is not any safer for humans. We don't get to tell God what rules we will obey and what we won't.
And it is very wrong to tell people that the good things they do are wrong - this is called speaking evil of digities.
To even suggest that obeying God should only be dependent upon motive is a little scary. If you can't obey God out of Love, then at least obey Him out of fear. But obey Him.
There is so much that is positive in the New Testament, that I hate having to go back and preach against sin, but even Paul had to do that in the first century when they should have known better.
God knows how to deliver us from temptation. We have an advocate in Christ Jesus to help us every step of the way. And Jesus provided all sorts of means to help us in our journey. He know that we might sin even after coming to Him, so He gave us the sacraments to help us be what He intended us to be. There is so much to hope for.
God is at work in us, shaping us, moulding us. Let Him mould you into something wonderful.
I will deal with the rest of your post in a bit.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Faith you gave this verse:
James 5:19-20 19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
This is not about a born again believer, because believer are no more a sinner and sinner go to hell because of all there mulititude of sins!
I told you before , if you think you are still a sinner just because you fall sometimes and sin, you need to get saved like us FAITH!
Death and life is in the power of the tongue and you are claiming death!
2Co:5:21: For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
You need to know the too good new is that there was a change in places when we got saved and is on going , and we call that etenal redemption to us and for us!
You need to ask the Holy Spirit to give you the meaning and see the joy of what (MADE) mean in the scriptures!
You will find out it has nothing to do with your aCtions or religious performances or works, or your good merits!
A matter of fact you will see it is a gift,Merry Christmas FAITH!
The more post I read from you is covincing me you don't believe and accept the grace and gift of God!
Everytime I talk with the JW thgey also run from the true meaning of grace and don't even teach it, with all the rest of their bible studys!
Religion and cults has a big issue with grace and our rightoeusness along with justification, and your church is in the exact same boat believe it or not that the truth!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 12/20/2011 02:56:21
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Originally posted by evangelist
Faith you gave this verse:
James 5:19-20 19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
This is not about a born again believer, because believer are no more a sinner and sinner go to hell because of all there mulititude of sins!
He specifically states "any of YOU" as in YOU BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS TO WHOM I AM WRITING. He specifically states "brethren" which is a specific reference to the brothers IN CHRIST.
Just because it does not fit with your religious philosophy, that is not a good reason to change the clear and irrefutable meaning of the text.
James was NOT writing to pagans or any other unbelievers. The "YOU" was referring to the ones he was writing to. Those who had already been born again.
I told you before , if you think you are still a sinner just because you fall sometimes and sin, you need to get saved like us FAITH!
According to the Bible, if anyone says that they do not have sin, he is a liar and the truth is not in him.
If you want to be saved, you need to get right with God, like us, and stop listening to Satan's sweet lies.
Death and life is in the power of the tongue and you are claiming death!
Not at all. I am claiming LIFE. It is my destiny. But that does not mean that I can just pretend that I am righteous. Jesus did more for me that. He did not just declare me legally righteous, but made me actually righteous, and this is something HE continues to do with me.
2Co:5:21: For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
You need to know the too good new is that there was a change in places when we got saved and is on going , and we call that etenal redemption to us and for us!
You need to accept what is actually in the scriptures instead of mentally adding and subtracting words. Jesus did what He did so that we may be made righteous. This does not mean that everyone is automatically made righteous - otherwise the whole world would be saved - He died for everyone.
You need to ask the Holy Spirit to give you the meaning and see the joy of what (MADE) mean in the scriptures!
He did. He guides me often. You need to ask the Holy Spirit to guide you to the proper context and fuller meaning so that you don't get trapped in a deception. Remember Satan can quote scripture better than anyone. But he tends to avoid the parts that will save and keep the parts that lull people into a false sense of security.
You will find out it has nothing to do with your aCtions or religious performances or works, or your good merits!
I have never equated salvation with my works. You simply presume this because you can't wrap your head around the fact that Christians are called to do good works - this is the very stated purpose of the scriptures - to prepare us for all good works.
Whenever I see someone who is not doing what the Bible prepared us to do, then I worry that they never really accepted Christ, but only a denominationally inspired offer that does not exist.
A matter of fact you will see it is a gift,Merry Christmas FAITH!
It is a gift and I do see it that way. Why do you take this extraordinary gift like trash?
The more post I read from you is covincing me you don't believe and accept the grace and gift of God!
That is only because you do not understand what Grace does for us, or exactly what the gift is.
Everytime I talk with the JW thgey also run from the true meaning of grace and don't even teach it, with all the rest of their bible studys!
Religion and cults has a big issue with grace and our rightoeusness along with justification, and your church is in the exact same boat believe it or not that the truth!
one love
I can't speak for the cults. They are nothing like the Catholic Church. Mostly because they did not break off from the Catholic Church but from mainstream Protestantism.
I don't run from the truth. I keep trying to show you the truth, but you keep running away. You edit the scriptures to fit your religious philosophy, and ignore those that just don't lend themselves to mental re-imagination.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
Edited by Faith_at_Large on 12/20/2011 09:29:41
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quote:
Prayers for the dead is demonic because the bible says after death the judgements and Jesus is the only mediator not you or a church trying to mediate in place of Jesus, and the bible say now is the time of salvation and that is only for the living not the dead, so if they didn't accept all the blessing and eternal redemption while living it is to late read:Eph:1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
So if they did not accept and know this truth it is too late, and there is not we can do to change God Word, or get God to break His promise to us as believers, so this is a good biblical reason why your dead prayers to them can bless them or have any effect!
The only way you can say this is untrue is to show the bible contradict itself!
Everything that you teach puts the Bible at odds with itself.
Jesus is the true mediator between God and Man. And I am In Jesus. I have every right to pray for other members of the same Body and even for those outside the Body.
And most Protestants believe this too - if they didn't, they would never pray for anyone else.
I know that you do, because every time you "heal" someone you are acting as a mediator.
Everything comes from and through Jesus Christ. I have never said otherwise.
Where Catholics differ from most Protestants is that we don't have this silly idea that we fall out of the Body of Christ when we die.
What Biblical evidence do you have that says we cease to be members of the Body of Christ when we die?
And, yes, we die and are judged. This has no bearing on whether or not we should pray to or for our dead. Those going to Hell don't need our prayers, so no prayers go for them - we let God sort out any misdirected prayers. And those that are going straight to Heaven do not need our prayers for them, but can add their prayers to ours, there is nothing to say that they can't, and Revelation shows them carrying our prayers so they must have some intermediary role.
And for those that go to Purgatory can certainly use our prayers - this is part of being members of the Body. The complete Bible shows that it is good to pray for the dead. The Jews thought so and all the early Christians did too. They even put prayers on their tombstones.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Infants can't believe and trust, because they first have to learn to believe and accept, and they are not at the age of understanding to do that or even read God Word to see the truth in God word for themselves, but we can follow Jesus example for infabt to bless them and pray for them while they are alive!
Roman 10 is the biblical confession we teach, but coming forward in a meeting is not biblical as such but an example of you not being ashame of your salvation and justification as been born again and to stand for Jesus with no fear!
It is a good testimony just like a water baptism is another testimony for all to see what happen in the unseen spirit Kingdom of God!
You put water baptism as a dead work. It is not a testamony - testamonies are spoken or written. The Bible clearly states that only those who had been baptized into Christ received the Holy Spirit. Those that had not yet been baptized did NOT receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 19 proves without any doubt that simply believing does not do this. Baptism into Christ is more than just spiritual baptism upon belief. Even Cornelius shows this much - he was blessed with the Holy Spirit prior to Baptism, but he had believed a long time before that - and was even commended for his great faith in Christ even before Christ's death on the Cross. Cornelius, according to tradition, was the very centurion who asked Christ to heal his servant in Matthew 8.
If you were right about your supposition concerning infants, then any who died before the age of reason would be in Hell.
Fortunately, Paul indicated that the children of believers were Holy. They were fresh from God and knew God better than you do. The age of reason is when they are able to think for themselves. After that, they must speak for themselves, but throughout, they are taught by their parents.
Converts must be catechized (taught) prior to baptism. This is also true for converts to Judaism. They cannot be circumcized until they make a profession of faith and this after having been properly taught.
But infants of believers in both Judaism and Christianity are legitimate heirs to the Kingdom by virtue of their parents. For this reason, they can be circumcized if Jewish (male), or baptized if Christian.
Baptism does not preclude the need to repent of sins or to confess Christ as Lord. But an infant has no sin of his or her own, only the stain of original sin which is washed away in baptism. And parents can and do speak for their children, both in Judaism and Christianity.
For an adopted Jew, you should know your own Jewish faith a little better.
When Jews come of age, they do speak for themselves in a formal ceremony - the Bar or Bat Mitzva (male or female). Christians are confirmed in the Faith - in the Bible they even mention this - confirming the souls of the Disciples.
Initially, baptism, confirmation and first eucharist were done at the same time. Later they got separated as the Church spread as only an Apostle/Bishop can lay hands for confirmation, and they tended to travel through the various churches as needed. Anyone can baptize in an emergency. Later, confirmation was moved to when the child was old enough to speak for him or her self, and it became like a Jewish Bar or Bat Mitzva, but while there are similarities, it is not necessary to do this.
Baptism for infants used to be done at eight days, just like Jewish circumcision (Paul equated the two, so it is not surprising that this happened. Later, but still withing the early centuries of Christianity, it was decided that it was not necessary to wait eight days, and Christians could baptize as early as they desired.
Christians who do practice infant baptism do recognize that the child will eventually speak for themselves and must personally accept Christ for salvation.
You are the one who puts limitations on when a child can or should be baptized. The Bible does not put some strict limitations.
The call to "repent and be baptized" was spoken to adults. I guarantee you that an adult needs to do this, but not a infant. Infants have nothing to repent.
The Bible shows that entire households were baptized without exceptions. Paul equates baptism with circumcision. If baptism was not going to be given to infants of believers, as circumcision was for the Jews, then he would have given a clear teaching on this.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
How is purgatory heretical?
How is prayers for the dead heretical?
I can see that they present a problem for your modern religious philosophy, but hardly against the Bible.
If you had a whole Bible you would see that the Jews were praying for their dead in purgatory long before Christ became incarnate. And they still do - although they do hate the Greek term.
And are you condemning God for having infant sons circumcised? It was his idea.
And Baptism is the new circumcision. And in the early Church infants were baptized, and even the Bible states that entire households were baptized without exception.
Now if you want to talk "unbiblical" = sinner's prayer for salvation. Jack Chick preaches this, and inside the pocket-sized KJV New Testament and Psalms is a little sinner's prayer that people are encouraged to say and then sign as a contract between new Christians and God.
While I would not go so far as to call that a heresy, the sinner's prayer is not only unBiblical, it is downright dangerous as this often leaves new Christians stillborn - no support, no further instruction or teaching unless they find away to get in touch with the group that provided the Bible or tract.
Baptism is very effective, the Bible shows this clearly. And not only that, according to Paul, infants of believers are HOLY whereas the children of unbelievers are not. This makes infants of believers eligible for baptism.
where in the bible say a infant must be baptized!
For instants my family has No infant,so how can you assume the jailer had a infant?
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