What is meant by saying we are made righteous?
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I think this might opem many truth and solve alot of issues and misunderstanding about the good gospel and also who we are in Christ Jesus and about , the do's and don'Ts some say we have to do to get on God side , or get saved, redeemed, justified and holy!To start I more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 11/27/2011 16:05:31
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Fourth Member
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Originally posted by evangelist
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Done. We can continue on my new thread on context. I will be focussing on that one for a while and not answering any others until we get a grip on the proper context for Paul's position on Baptism.
WELL, as long as you reject the bible to be a sort of a mirror, and don't see it as your final authority it will be a bunch of loops and merry-go-round discusions, so have fun , but don't let any pride get in the way!
one love
The bible is not the final authority.
Divine revelation is transmitted by Sacred magisterium Sacred Tradition & Sacred Scripture all working together.
Protestants are lacking Sacred magisterium & Sacred Tradition.
Through bigotry prejudices false assumptions & false premises Protestants are protesting a catholic church made up by Protestantism that does not actually exist.
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Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by michael
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Done. We can continue on my new thread on context. I will be focussing on that one for a while and not answering any others until we get a grip on the proper context for Paul's position on Baptism.
WELL, as long as you reject the bible to be a sort of a mirror, and don't see it as your final authority it will be a bunch of loops and merry-go-round discusions, so have fun , but don't let any pride get in the way!
one love
The bible is not the final authority.
Divine revelation is transmitted by Sacred magisterium Sacred Tradition & Sacred Scripture all working together.
Protestants are lacking Sacred magisterium & Sacred Tradition.
So the bible is not like a mirror for us??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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It could be if you modelled yourself after the Bible, but instead you try to remake the Bible so that it looks more like you - saying what you want it to say instead of heeding what it actually says.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
It could be if you modelled yourself after the Bible, but instead you try to remake the Bible so that it looks more like you - saying what you want it to say instead of heeding what it actually says.
My point dear FAITH, is to show the final authority of the bible which you first of all reject, like in a beauty parlor, after getting your hair done.
They give you a mirror to see what they have done as final approval, this is my point that you can only go by that alone, to see the front and back of your hair unless you have eyes on top of my head also!(lol)
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Fourth Member
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
It could be if you modelled yourself after the Bible, but instead you try to remake the Bible so that it looks more like you - saying what you want it to say instead of heeding what it actually says.
My point dear FAITH, is to show the final authority of the bible which you first of all reject, like in a beauty parlor, after getting your hair done.
They give you a mirror to see what they have done as final approval, this is my point that you can only go by that alone, to see the front and back of your hair unless you have eyes on top of my head also!(lol)
one love
Of course Catholics reject the bible alone as the final authority.
The bible alone as the final authority is a deceptive Protestant false doctrine.
Protestants use the bible in the same deceptive way as a criminal would use a sharif badge or police uniform to trick other people into thinking they have authority when they do not.
A bible does not give a person authority. A huge pile of bibles in every translation & language does not give a person authority.
In criminal law, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; the related adjective is fraudulent.
The bible alone as the final authority is a fraudulent deceptive Protestant false doctrine.
Through bigotry prejudices false assumptions & false premises Protestants are protesting a catholic church made up by Protestantism that does not actually exist.
Edited by michael on 02/14/2012 08:11:15
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quote:
Originally posted by michael
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
It could be if you modelled yourself after the Bible, but instead you try to remake the Bible so that it looks more like you - saying what you want it to say instead of heeding what it actually says.
My point dear FAITH, is to show the final authority of the bible which you first of all reject, like in a beauty parlor, after getting your hair done.
They give you a mirror to see what they have done as final approval, this is my point that you can only go by that alone, to see the front and back of your hair unless you have eyes on top of my head also!(lol)
one love
Of course Catholics reject the bible alone as the final authority.
The bible alone as the final authority is a deceptive Protestant false doctrine.
Protestants use the bible in the same deceptive way as a criminal would use a sharif badge or police uniform to trick other people into thinking they have authority when they do not.
A bible does not give a person authority. A huge pile of bibles in every translation & language does not give a person authority.
In criminal law, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; the related adjective is fraudulent.
The bible alone as the final authority is a fraudulent deceptive Protestant false doctrine.
I am surprise you didn't give your opinion about the mirror analogy, so what you think about it??
Do you only go by other people views on how they see you instead of using a mirror to see your refection, so your reflection of how you look like is reflected by how people see you???
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
It could be if you modelled yourself after the Bible, but instead you try to remake the Bible so that it looks more like you - saying what you want it to say instead of heeding what it actually says.
My point dear FAITH, is to show the final authority of the bible which you first of all reject, like in a beauty parlor, after getting your hair done.
They give you a mirror to see what they have done as final approval, this is my point that you can only go by that alone, to see the front and back of your hair unless you have eyes on top of my head also!(lol)
one love
My point is that if the Bible were your final authority, then you would do what it said and stop looking for loopholes.
You proved time and again that you reject the Bible as even authoritative. You certain do not accept it as your final authority, so why push that false doctrine on me?
The Bible says that the Church is the final authority for Christians on earth. I accept the Bible as authoritative, that is why I accept what the Bible says. The Bible says that I must listen to the Church. You say I must listen to Andrew Wommack.
I would be happy if you would stop listening to men and start accepting that the Bible IS authoritative and binding. I do.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Fourth Member
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Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by michael
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Done. We can continue on my new thread on context. I will be focussing on that one for a while and not answering any others until we get a grip on the proper context for Paul's position on Baptism.
WELL, as long as you reject the bible to be a sort of a mirror, and don't see it as your final authority it will be a bunch of loops and merry-go-round discusions, so have fun , but don't let any pride get in the way!
one love
The bible is not the final authority.
Divine revelation is transmitted by Sacred magisterium Sacred Tradition & Sacred Scripture all working together.
Protestants are lacking Sacred magisterium & Sacred Tradition.
So the bible is not like a mirror for us??
one love
Just because a person has access to a bible does not give a person authority. Practically everybody has access to a bible in some way shape or form. Does this mean everybody has authority?
The bible alone as the final authority is a deceptive Protestant false doctrine.
Protestants use the bible in the same deceptive way as a criminal would use a sharif badge or police uniform to trick other people into thinking they have authority when they do not.
A bible does not give a person authority. A huge pile of bibles in every translation & language does not give a person authority.
In criminal law, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; the related adjective is fraudulent.
The bible alone as the final authority is a fraudulent deceptive Protestant false doctrine.
Jemes 1
[22] But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
[23] For if any one is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who observes his natural face in a mirror;
[24] for he observes himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like.
[25] But he who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer that forgets but a doer that acts, he shall be blessed in his doing.
[26] If any one thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this man's religion is vain.
[27] Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
Through bigotry prejudices false assumptions & false premises Protestants are protesting a catholic church made up by Protestantism that does not actually exist.
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
It could be if you modelled yourself after the Bible, but instead you try to remake the Bible so that it looks more like you - saying what you want it to say instead of heeding what it actually says.
My point dear FAITH, is to show the final authority of the bible which you first of all reject, like in a beauty parlor, after getting your hair done.
They give you a mirror to see what they have done as final approval, this is my point that you can only go by that alone, to see the front and back of your hair unless you have eyes on top of my head also!(lol)
one love
My point is that if the Bible were your final authority, then you would do what it said and stop looking for loopholes.
You proved time and again that you reject the Bible as even authoritative. You certain do not accept it as your final authority, so why push that false doctrine on me?
The Bible says that the Church is the final authority for Christians on earth. I accept the Bible as authoritative, that is why I accept what the Bible says. The Bible says that I must listen to the Church. You say I must listen to Andrew Wommack.
I would be happy if you would stop listening to men and start accepting that the Bible IS authoritative and binding. I do.
You miss my point again FAITH!
When you look into a mirror and see your make up or hair out of place don't you do something to make it right by what you see in the mirror??
That is why we do what the bible says, and first you have to believe what you see in the mirror and discern the truth , unless you have as trick mirror which I think the catholic church has given it members, like the mirrors you see when going to a circus, which make you fat , or skinny and other views which is not true!
It is like us to us that the ´reflection you see in your catholic mirror which make you look over wieght, is telling you to go on a diet and you obey what you see and brag about your obedience to what you see!
By you Looking in that false mirror , you say I look aweful and ungly, which is like you say you are still a sinner, and I say what I see to you that you look beautiful, and wonderful and pure before God and alot of men!
Do you see my point ?
religion and most churchy is a trick mirror philosophy!
Don't go to a circus and buy a mirror there, like making your church a circus miror you accept, and trust, but go directly to a local store mirror store or factory which is going straight to Jesus as the mirror store or shop , and the right mirror is the right bible which will never turn void and works for you and others which is more authoritive and has real living life for you personally !
Another good news analogy about yourself is how God see'S you in the same mirror is when you got born again and if you get born again , at the moment you recieve Jesus as your Saviour, it is like God took a picture of your born again spirit and place that picture in front of the mirror you have and see's forever that one perfect picture of you and if always so proud of that picture which can never change unless you throw away that picture, which is denouncing God, not by your actions and performances!
That why being made righteous is like the picture a done deal as saying the picture was made for the front of that mirror for God to be proud of forever, even though you might think differently and see your ever day different reflections and good and bad views of yourself, God see's just that one perfect pure, holy picture of you on the day you married Him.
YES!, it is like looking at your wedding pictures which never changes, unless you get a divorse and burn those pictures, but why should you burn them, it is better to remain married even when you husband or a wife mess up time after time , just look back at those perfect wedding picture, it might renew your mind to joy and forgiveness, and a uncondition love.
I hope you can get the revelation what I am trying to explain to you from the gospel side of grace and righteousness, and why you are also forever justified before God, not men!
Wommack and many other teaches just tells me to stop looking at myself as such and look at the marriage picture, when I got born again with Jesus!
It is also like if you look at a water reflection of yourself in your toilet , I would try to advise you to get a mirror instead as a wake up cal and a better view, and when you do this, you would tell other how I advised you, not that you worship me for that as you think I do with wommack and others, I just take what is good and see the reality of truth!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 02/16/2012 02:53:24
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by michael
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by michael
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Done. We can continue on my new thread on context. I will be focussing on that one for a while and not answering any others until we get a grip on the proper context for Paul's position on Baptism.
WELL, as long as you reject the bible to be a sort of a mirror, and don't see it as your final authority it will be a bunch of loops and merry-go-round discusions, so have fun , but don't let any pride get in the way!
one love
The bible is not the final authority.
Divine revelation is transmitted by Sacred magisterium Sacred Tradition & Sacred Scripture all working together.
Protestants are lacking Sacred magisterium & Sacred Tradition.
So the bible is not like a mirror for us??
one love
Just because a person has access to a bible does not give a person authority. Practically everybody has access to a bible in some way shape or form. Does this mean everybody has authority?
The bible alone as the final authority is a deceptive Protestant false doctrine.
Protestants use the bible in the same deceptive way as a criminal would use a sharif badge or police uniform to trick other people into thinking they have authority when they do not.
A bible does not give a person authority. A huge pile of bibles in every translation & language does not give a person authority.
In criminal law, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; the related adjective is fraudulent.
The bible alone as the final authority is a fraudulent deceptive Protestant false doctrine.
Jemes 1
[22] But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
[23] For if any one is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who observes his natural face in a mirror;
[24] for he observes himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like.
[25] But he who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer that forgets but a doer that acts, he shall be blessed in his doing.
[26] If any one thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this man's religion is vain.
[27] Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
I again heard so many people use the trinity as a pagan deception and a false doctrine, but just because they think that, does that make them right?
The part which you think youmust remain a weak defeated christian and no authority over the devil is not knowing who you are in Christ , but I think that is another importan topic you need to study on ASAP!
Psalms:82:6: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psalms:115:16: The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
Ge:1:26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.Ge:1:27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Ge:1:28: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 02/16/2012 03:13:34
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But Evangelist, you keep telling me that you are perfect and sinless and righteous because you are in Christ.
Whenever you look at your Bible mirror you never see yourself, you only see Jesus and never feel the need to fix your hair or wash your face.
That is not a mirror. What you have is a picture of Jesus not a reflection of you.
And then you condemn others for seeing what they really are.
You got upset over my signature prayer because you don't think that I should ever admit to being a sinner.
The mirror analogy is no good because you don't even understand it yourself. Your own view is distorted. That is why Jesus did not give us a Bible. He promised us a CHURCH.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
But Evangelist, you keep telling me that you are perfect and sinless and righteous because you are in Christ.
Whenever you look at your Bible mirror you never see yourself, you only see Jesus and never feel the need to fix your hair or wash your face.
That is not a mirror. What you have is a picture of Jesus not a reflection of you.
And then you condemn others for seeing what they really are.
You got upset over my signature prayer because you don't think that I should ever admit to being a sinner.
The mirror analogy is no good because you don't even understand it yourself. Your own view is distorted. That is why Jesus did not give us a Bible. He promised us a CHURCH.
NO! Jesus became what we should deserve and that is hell, so we can be righteous in His place which you don't want to accept, because that would be to good to be true, which is why you don't accept the true gospel of the bible!
Eph:4:20: But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph:4:21: If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
The issue is that you want the bible to say, you have learned Catholic churchy, and been taught by a CC society as the truth of catholic!
You gravitate toward carnal mindedness FaITH, and that is why the power of God can't work through you and with you , to be a anointed witness to others and your family!
I hope you don't get deathly sick or other in your family and need your prayful help, or anoitings if any, because they and you will be in serious trouble and blame yourself for weak faith , which is not the truth, but really a lack of knowledge and belief, on the spiritual and knowledge of God and who you are as a unrighteous sinner as you claim, which disconnect the power of God towards you!
Don't blame the devil niether for your lack of powers it you, helping the devil, so he just has to sit back and say thank you FAITH, your doing a good job without my demons!
Let me ask you a honest question also , will you be pround to be called FAITH SINNER or FAITH Righteous??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Evangelist, see. Look at your own words. You reject the mirror analogy completely, so why use it for others? Stop using the mirror analogy.
And as for your question. John says that if we say we have not sinned, i.e. are not a sinner, then we lie and have no part in Jesus.
I am a redeemed sinner. I would rather God call me righteous, than to judge myself righteous and then have God tell me that I have already received my only reward on earth.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, see. Look at your own words. You reject the mirror analogy completely, so why use it for others? Stop using the mirror analogy.
And as for your question. John says that if we say we have not sinned, i.e. are not a sinner, then we lie and have no part in Jesus.
I am a redeemed sinner. I would rather God call me righteous, than to judge myself righteous and then have God tell me that I have already received my only reward on earth.
Then let me also play with words with you to hope I get my question anwered.
Let me ask you a honest question also , will you be pround that God , Jehovah called you FAITH SINNER or FAITH Righteous??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
I will be proud when God calls me righteous.
I live out that righteousness every day and thank God for keeping me safe. But I never forget that I am not perfect, and what could be if Christ were not beside me.
Jesus was called a sinner on earth. A glutton and a drunkard.
I am not ashamed to admit that I am a sinner in need of Christ my Saviour.
But I am not an unrepentent degenerate sinner who lets her pride get in the way of the truth.
Abraham was a sinner and yet God called him righteous. Because, Abraham did the Will of God, even though he was not perfect.
Christ is perfecting me all the time. When I cease to commit sins entirely, I know that He has finished with me. Until then, I know that I am a work in progress - just as Paul said when he told me to work out my salvation with fear and trembling as this was God at work in me.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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