heretic catholic purgatory exposed
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First Member
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Location: Germany
What does the Bible say about Purgatory?"Answer: According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Purgatory is “a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 12/02/2011 03:43:46
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He died for us, but His obedience in all things was for our example to show us what to do, not to have it done for us.
We were made righteous when we were born again, perfectly and all our sins washed away. A clean slate from which to begin our lives in Christ.
But Jesus said that to abide in His love, we had to do what He told us. It is necessary to do things HIS Way because the ways of the world are not safe for us. If we choose to walk after the flesh, we have no part in Him unless we repent.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
He died for us, but His obedience in all things was for our example to show us what to do, not to have it done for us.
We were made righteous when we were born again, perfectly and all our sins washed away. A clean slate from which to begin our lives in Christ.
But Jesus said that to abide in His love, we had to do what He told us. It is necessary to do things HIS Way because the ways of the world are not safe for us. If we choose to walk after the flesh, we have no part in Him unless we repent.
To say our future sins is not washed away, is to say Jesus didn't pay for ALL sins!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
No. I explained this all before. The Blood is available to pay the debt, but we have to repent of our sins to collect. Jesus did HIS part, but we still need to do our part.
The Bible EXPLICITLY states that previously committed sins are washed away. I have shown you numerous verses that prove that future sins are not automatically forgiven but can be, and the Bible shows us how, even if you disagree.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Fifth Member
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PM
Member since 10/13/2007
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
It is a free gift, but like any gift, a good father will reserve the right to take it away if his children aren't good. This is not the same as believing in working for salvation. I have yet to meet a single one of these Catholics you talk about who think they can earn salvation on their own accord apart from Christ.
We do, however, believe in cooperating with grace. Like a toy one gets for Christmas, we don't just shove it in a closet and forget about it. That would signify nothing more than ingratitude towards our spiritual Father who worked so hard to purchase that gift for us.
If was to take away that gift he would have to go against His promises, and also leave us , which He said He will never leave us or forsake us!
one love
As Faith noted, it would be us breaking the covenant, not Jesus.
If a man is saved from drowning, it is not the fault of the man who saved him if the once drowning man jumps back in the water.
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
No. I explained this all before. The Blood is available to pay the debt, but we have to repent of our sins to collect. Jesus did HIS part, but we still need to do our part.
The Bible EXPLICITLY states that previously committed sins are washed away. I have shown you numerous verses that prove that future sins are not automatically forgiven but can be, and the Bible shows us how, even if you disagree.
If Jesus did His part how much did he do?
To say he didn't forgive our future sins is to say He only forgave some sins not ALL, and that is just a logical obvious fact!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
It is a free gift, but like any gift, a good father will reserve the right to take it away if his children aren't good. This is not the same as believing in working for salvation. I have yet to meet a single one of these Catholics you talk about who think they can earn salvation on their own accord apart from Christ.
We do, however, believe in cooperating with grace. Like a toy one gets for Christmas, we don't just shove it in a closet and forget about it. That would signify nothing more than ingratitude towards our spiritual Father who worked so hard to purchase that gift for us.
If was to take away that gift he would have to go against His promises, and also leave us , which He said He will never leave us or forsake us!
one love
As Faith noted, it would be us breaking the covenant, not Jesus.
If a man is saved from drowning, it is not the fault of the man who saved him if the once drowning man jumps back in the water.
That is exactly what the bible calls renouncing Christ a sin unto death with no return, and no another pit stop like a purgatory!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/23/2012 13:33:22
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
No. I explained this all before. The Blood is available to pay the debt, but we have to repent of our sins to collect. Jesus did HIS part, but we still need to do our part.
The Bible EXPLICITLY states that previously committed sins are washed away. I have shown you numerous verses that prove that future sins are not automatically forgiven but can be, and the Bible shows us how, even if you disagree.
If Jesus did His part how much did he do?
To say he didn't forgive our future sins is to say He only forgave some sins not ALL, and that is just a logical obvious fact!
one love
Jesus did ALL of His part. His blood is shed for us, He died for us.
Do you expect Jesus to do our part TOO????
How lazy can you get?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
No. I explained this all before. The Blood is available to pay the debt, but we have to repent of our sins to collect. Jesus did HIS part, but we still need to do our part.
The Bible EXPLICITLY states that previously committed sins are washed away. I have shown you numerous verses that prove that future sins are not automatically forgiven but can be, and the Bible shows us how, even if you disagree.
If Jesus did His part how much did he do?
To say he didn't forgive our future sins is to say He only forgave some sins not ALL, and that is just a logical obvious fact!
one love
Jesus did ALL of His part. His blood is shed for us, He died for us.
Do you expect Jesus to do our part TOO????
How lazy can you get?
This is the good gospel which religion and you don't believe and accept!
But many who say this is too good to believe as a gift because Jesus did our part as such also , is against the true gospel as to have to say we are lazy to put force their mind set of works and merits!
When a doctrine is based on works , merits and performance, that is no more grace , and make void the cross so they are enemies of the cross!
If purgatory was true what works would have to be done to get your sin stains taken away?
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/24/2012 05:46:15
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Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
Evangelist,
You continue to have a biased and false view from Protestantism about Catholic works.
Catholicism teaches faith, grace and works.
What good is a Christian who "talks the talk" and yet refuses to "walk the walk"?
Works are the walk. Works are the cooperation with the Holy Spirit who indwells me; my works show Christ to other people. Works are where I imitate His life. Works prove belief in His Commandments, His Beattitudes, His great Commandments.
The graces of God ,overflowing in a Christian, creates works.
And, all this happens, simulatiously with a Christian who sins, who repents, and who is absolved of their sins - grace through Reconciliation and grace through receiving Christ in the Eucharist.
One intermixed bundle, God's grace wearing away at our base wants and desires.
He is Holy and He calls each of us to be as well, one way that we do that, is through our show of works.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
Evangelist,
You continue to have a biased and false view from Protestantism about Catholic works.
Catholicism teaches faith, grace and works.
What good is a Christian who "talks the talk" and yet refuses to "walk the walk"?
Works are the walk. Works are the cooperation with the Holy Spirit who indwells me; my works show Christ to other people. Works are where I imitate His life. Works prove belief in His Commandments, His Beattitudes, His great Commandments.
The graces of God ,overflowing in a Christian, creates works.
And, all this happens, simulatiously with a Christian who sins, who repents, and who is absolved of their sins - grace through Reconciliation and grace through receiving Christ in the Eucharist.
One intermixed bundle, God's grace wearing away at our base wants and desires.
He is Holy and He calls each of us to be as well, one way that we do that, is through our show of works.
Your religion is based on merits and works, and that is why you have penance of self works, even to have self suffering in repentance like whipping yoursel, hanging yourself on a cross in self sacraficing, or putting cut glass in your shoes for pain and suffering in place of the Lord suffereing which is so demonic and paganism at it best!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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-
Contact:
PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
Evangelist,
You continue to have a biased and false view from Protestantism about Catholic works.
Catholicism teaches faith, grace and works.
What good is a Christian who "talks the talk" and yet refuses to "walk the walk"?
Works are the walk. Works are the cooperation with the Holy Spirit who indwells me; my works show Christ to other people. Works are where I imitate His life. Works prove belief in His Commandments, His Beattitudes, His great Commandments.
The graces of God ,overflowing in a Christian, creates works.
And, all this happens, simulatiously with a Christian who sins, who repents, and who is absolved of their sins - grace through Reconciliation and grace through receiving Christ in the Eucharist.
One intermixed bundle, God's grace wearing away at our base wants and desires.
He is Holy and He calls each of us to be as well, one way that we do that, is through our show of works.
Your religion is based on merits and works, and that is why you have penance of self works, even to have self suffering in repentance like whipping yoursel, hanging yourself on a cross in self sacraficing, or putting cut glass in your shoes for pain and suffering in place of the Lord suffereing which is so demonic and paganism at it best!
one love
That is what you have been taught (so that the protestantisms could multiple and grow).
Penance is needed in cases where restitution of the consequences of sin is required.
If I break a neighbor's window on purpose (or by accident) the Christian requirement is payment for the repair. That is mature Christianity.
Again, you have been taught error concerning the Church's teaching on works and merit.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/reward-and-merit
quote:
Protestants often misunderstand the Catholic teaching on merit, thinking that Catholics believe that one must do good works to come to God and be saved.
This is exactly the opposite of what the Church teaches.
The Council of Trent stressed: "[N]one of those things which precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification; for if it is by grace, it is not now by works; otherwise, as the Apostle [Paul] says, grace is no more grace" (Decree on Justification 8, citing Rom. 11:6).
The Catholic Church teaches only Christ is capable of meriting in the strict sense–mere man cannot (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2007).
The most merit humans can have is condign–when, under the impetus of God's grace, they perform acts which please him and which he has promised to reward (Rom. 2:6—11, Gal. 6:6—10).
Thus God's grace and his promise form the foundation for all human merit (CCC 2008).
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PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
P.S. It is not a teaching of the Church to whip, hang from a cross, or putting cut glass in shoes, etc.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
Evangelist,
You continue to have a biased and false view from Protestantism about Catholic works.
Catholicism teaches faith, grace and works.
What good is a Christian who "talks the talk" and yet refuses to "walk the walk"?
Works are the walk. Works are the cooperation with the Holy Spirit who indwells me; my works show Christ to other people. Works are where I imitate His life. Works prove belief in His Commandments, His Beattitudes, His great Commandments.
The graces of God ,overflowing in a Christian, creates works.
And, all this happens, simulatiously with a Christian who sins, who repents, and who is absolved of their sins - grace through Reconciliation and grace through receiving Christ in the Eucharist.
One intermixed bundle, God's grace wearing away at our base wants and desires.
He is Holy and He calls each of us to be as well, one way that we do that, is through our show of works.
Your religion is based on merits and works, and that is why you have penance of self works, even to have self suffering in repentance like whipping yoursel, hanging yourself on a cross in self sacraficing, or putting cut glass in your shoes for pain and suffering in place of the Lord suffereing which is so demonic and paganism at it best!
one love
That is what you have been taught (so that the protestantisms could multiple and grow).
Penance is needed in cases where restitution of the consequences of sin is required.
If I break a neighbor's window on purpose (or by accident) the Christian requirement is payment for the repair. That is mature Christianity.
Again, you have been taught error concerning the Church's teaching on works and merit.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/reward-and-merit
quote:
Protestants often misunderstand the Catholic teaching on merit, thinking that Catholics believe that one must do good works to come to God and be saved.
This is exactly the opposite of what the Church teaches.
The Council of Trent stressed: "[N]one of those things which precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification; for if it is by grace, it is not now by works; otherwise, as the Apostle [Paul] says, grace is no more grace" (Decree on Justification 8, citing Rom. 11:6).
The Catholic Church teaches only Christ is capable of meriting in the strict sense–mere man cannot (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2007).
The most merit humans can have is condign–when, under the impetus of God's grace, they perform acts which please him and which he has promised to reward (Rom. 2:6—11, Gal. 6:6—10).
Thus God's grace and his promise form the foundation for all human merit (CCC 2008).
Should I give a link to a priest who explain this from a Catholic view point that your cATHOLIC doctrine and teaching is based on merits and works, and from an active ordain catholic priest called father Pawe??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=PrmbQLbpT6I&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YxWzxnk1KY
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/25/2012 09:37:49
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
If it is Father Mitch Pacwa, you would benefit from listening to him.
Merits and works are very much part of our Catholic theology because this is what Jesus taught.
But that is NOT the same as "earning" salvation. We do not and never have believed in salvation by works alone. But we do refute, based on the Bible itself, that salvation by faith alone is a damnable doctrine of men.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
Edited by Faith_at_Large on 07/25/2012 20:34:40
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Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
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