heretic catholic purgatory exposed
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First Member
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What does the Bible say about Purgatory?"Answer: According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Purgatory is “a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 12/02/2011 03:43:46
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Are you saying that Abraham was a Christian?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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LOL, so Christ formed His Church with Abraham and the New Covenant also? So there was never an Old Covenant?
That Ishmael was Jesus?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Are you saying that Abraham was a Christian?
NO! I was saying He was a blessed father for us, and he was a man of God, or do you see him as an unbeliever and was against God??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
LOL, so Christ formed His Church with Abraham and the New Covenant also? So there was never an Old Covenant?
That Ishmael was Jesus?
Do you know the big difference between the old and New covenant?
Do you know why one is old and one called the new and I hope you don't say because the old covenant came before the new and that is the reason there is a OT and NT covenant!
to help just think of the OT Adam and the NT with Jesus it might help you somewhere!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Are you saying that Abraham was a Christian?
NO! I was saying He was a blessed father for us, and he was a man of God, or do you see him as an unbeliever and was against God??
one love
Abraham was a righteous man, and now a saint in Heaven.
But when John talked about going "out from us", the "us" he was referring to was not Judaism. It was Christianity.
The false teachers were from within the Christian Church and they went out from the Christian Church.
I am shocked that you would think that we are still in Judaism.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
LOL, so Christ formed His Church with Abraham and the New Covenant also? So there was never an Old Covenant?
That Ishmael was Jesus?
Do you know the big difference between the old and New covenant?
Do you know why one is old and one called the new and I hope you don't say because the old covenant came before the new and that is the reason there is a OT and NT covenant!
to help just think of the OT Adam and the NT with Jesus it might help you somewhere!
one love
I know the difference. You are the one who still thinks that we are Jewish.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
I got news for you. The New Covenant was opened to the Gentiles. It has Jewish roots, but it is no longer an exclusively Jewish religion. Even the OT predicted this. You must have missed the memo.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Are you saying that Abraham was a Christian?
NO! I was saying He was a blessed father for us, and he was a man of God, or do you see him as an unbeliever and was against God??
one love
Abraham was a righteous man, and now a saint in Heaven.
But when John talked about going "out from us", the "us" he was referring to was not Judaism. It was Christianity.
The false teachers were from within the Christian Church and they went out from the Christian Church.
I am shocked that you would think that we are still in Judaism.
I just considered myself as an adxopted Jew as such because they are God chosen people!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Well, I am not an adopted Jew. I am an adopted Gentile who was grafted into the Hebrew root.
A daughter of God.
But, that still does not excuse you for denying Christianity. If the verse was saying that they went out of Judaism, and Judaism is the group that REJECTED Jesus and continues to reject Jesus to this day, then we all went out from them and true Christianity died at the Fall of Jerusalem.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Judaism is THE OLD COVENANT. Only those who LEFT Judaism and converted to Christ under the NEW Covenant belong to Christ.
Judaism is our root, but it is not who we are as the People of God. It was God's plan from the beginning that the whole world should be His people. EVERY LAST ONE OF US, not just an isolated group that God scattered.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Well, I am not an adopted Jew. I am an adopted Gentile who was grafted into the Hebrew root.
A daughter of God.
But, that still does not excuse you for denying Christianity. If the verse was saying that they went out of Judaism, and Judaism is the group that REJECTED Jesus and continues to reject Jesus to this day, then we all went out from them and true Christianity died at the Fall of Jerusalem.
That is why few are chosen to see the truth and the blind viel taken from our eyes to accept the salvation of Christ.
there is BTW many real Jews who are saved and were chosen as born again sons and daughter like us!
That good news and that they will go boldly to the throne of God because of the blood of Jesus they accepted not a purgatory or limbo and another pit stop before the throne of God or a waiting place which hindered them from being with Jesus our Father.
Being absent from the body as an believere is to be at home with Jesus instantly, not to be at a hotel or motel in a purgatory!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Judaism is THE OLD COVENANT. Only those who LEFT Judaism and converted to Christ under the NEW Covenant belong to Christ.
Judaism is our root, but it is not who we are as the People of God. It was God's plan from the beginning that the whole world should be His people. EVERY LAST ONE OF US, not just an isolated group that God scattered.
That why I based who I am as a adopted Jew , but not an original Jew, and knowing I am God chosen child of God like a Jew who believes and trust Jesus as thier Lord!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Well, I am not an adopted Jew. I am an adopted Gentile who was grafted into the Hebrew root.
A daughter of God.
But, that still does not excuse you for denying Christianity. If the verse was saying that they went out of Judaism, and Judaism is the group that REJECTED Jesus and continues to reject Jesus to this day, then we all went out from them and true Christianity died at the Fall of Jerusalem.
That is why few are chosen to see the truth and the blind viel taken from our eyes to accept the salvation of Christ.
there is BTW many real Jews who are saved and were chosen as born again sons and daughter like us!
All of the original Christians were Jewish. Most of the New Testament writers were Jewish, but they converted FROM Judaism to become Christians. They left the Old Covenant and entered the New Covenant.
Did you not read in the scriptures that under the NEW Covenant there are no more Jews or Gentiles? God does not see any Jews among the Christians. He only sees Christians. Take the veil from your eyes and accept the truth of the scriptures.
We are not Jews, we are Christians. We are the natural extension of Judaism. Its proper fulfillment. There is no longer Judaism - even today, it does not exist as it once did. It was done away with. The Temple at Jerusalem permanently destroyed, never to be rebuilt.
That good news and that they will go boldly to the throne of God because of the blood of Jesus they accepted not a purgatory or limbo and another pit stop before the throne of God or a waiting place which hindered them from being with Jesus our Father.
I go boldly before the throne of God regularly. But this does not mean that there is no purgatory. We are appointed to die once and then the judgment. Not straight to Heaven as you seem to think. After Jugdment, EVERY MAN is rendered according to his works. For good or ill. None of this resting on Christ's laurels. Christ is incapable of sin and can't go to Hell, but we can. The Bible warns of this often.
Being absent from the body as an believere is to be at home with Jesus instantly, not to be at a hotel or motel in a purgatory!
one love
It does not say anything about leaving the body in death, although Paul does say somewhere that he wishes that he was permanently with Christ, which would imply death. But even there, there is no suggestion that this is an immediate, instant thing. That would make Paul a liar. Indeed, it would make Jesus Christ a liar.
Paul only said that he desired to be with Jesus in Heaven rather than being alive on earth. I echo that sentiment often. But he is NOT saying that when he dies he will instantly be with Jesus. That just isn't there in the text. A desire to be with Jesus forever, should be every Christian's hope. But this is not a doctrinal statement.
Paul also states than while he was absent in body, but present in spirit, he judged someone else in Corinth. That does not mean that he literally died and went to Corinth in spirit.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Judaism is THE OLD COVENANT. Only those who LEFT Judaism and converted to Christ under the NEW Covenant belong to Christ.
Judaism is our root, but it is not who we are as the People of God. It was God's plan from the beginning that the whole world should be His people. EVERY LAST ONE OF US, not just an isolated group that God scattered.
That why I based who I am as a adopted Jew , but not an original Jew, and knowing I am God chosen child of God like a Jew who believes and trust Jesus as thier Lord!
one love
In Christ, there is no more Jew or Gentile, slave or free. God is not a respector of persons, do you not understand what that means yet?
And in that original passage that we were discussing. There is no possible way to think, logically, that the author was referring to people rejecting Judaism. They went out from the people of the NEW Covenant. They went out from True Christianity, the Body of Christ.
There are no Jews in the Body of Christ. All that were Jewish had to accept Jesus and the New Covenant or else they remained under the Old Covenant.
Those that went out were not rejecting the Old Covenant, but the Church of the NEW Covenant - Christ's Church. They went out from US, not those who accepted the Old Covenant, but those who accepted the New Covenant.
US. Unless you were circumcized under the Old Covenant, then you cannot go making any fool statement that the author was suggestng that these were circumcized OT believers that NEVER accepted Christ that went out from US.
Only those that were born again Christians could be from US, so the false teachers who went out from US, could not possibly be anyone who had not first accepted Christ.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Do you honestly believe that a Christian would be still identifying Judaism as the global Church that Christ founded?
And what about the Muslims you alluded to? They were never Jewish. They adopted some Jewish traditions and some Christian traditions, but they were neither Jewish nor Christian. Mohammed was a pagan.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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