The meaning of IT IS FINISHED!

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

I don't consider Wommack a Liar. I believe him to be a heretic because he teaches heresies. What he teaches goes against the Bible.

The Ten Commandments are not finished, as these were written in stone for all time and now written upon our hearts. Both Jesus Christ and Paul confirmed that the Ten Commandments are still in effect. However, you are right in that the Two Great Commandments do encompass all of them.

It is not the letter of the law that matters any more, but the Spirit of the Law. This does not mean that we are free to break the letter of the law, by no means. In Matthew 5, Jesus showed us the difference between the letter of the OT Law, and the Spirit of the Law under the NT.

Since my conversion, I have kept the letter of the law easily. I have never intentionally broken any civil laws either. When I have called myself a sinner, I was not speaking in terms of the letter of the OT law as obeyed by those under the OT laws - those are a cakewalk. It is the Spirit of the Law that is more challenging, but even that is still doable with Christ.

Perhaps instead of trying to figure out what was finished when Jesus died on the Cross you need to do a study on the need for repentance for born again Christians in the New Testament and try to reconcile the Bible with Andrew Wommack's teachings that we never need to repent, just accept that we have been forgiven.

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Originally posted by evangelist

I have heard this teaching =IT is Finished by wommack so many times that I had to give God praise and thankgiving more than ever before.
I must admit while discussing the finished work of the cross and death of Jesus and saying it is finished , that Sister FAITH was correct about that was about the end of the OT laws, not that we can do whatever we want becuase Jesus said it is finished!
I know even the ten commands is part of the laws but this must also be finished, but put in cintexts of our love toward others and God the laws are fulfiled in two cammandments as to love others as you love yourself!
I just want to thank FAITH openly for another truth!
There are many thing I love what Faith and even Mike and many other say about thier faith as a catholic and many thing I disagree with, which I am saying I take what is good and builds me up in my faith and more love to God and throw away the bad as garbage!
I am now also listening to Fr. Mitchell Pacwa who I love listening too and like the way he debates and explains the catholic views and doctrines even though I do hear alot of his teaching as garbage and heretic doctrines and misunderstandings but he does have alot of truth and good teaching as well.
I do take the time to listen to him , even though I believe he is missing the basic gospel and taken alot of bible out of contexts, I still will not call him a liar like catholic do with wommack I will not be ignorant not to listen to him and others like them, I think it is wise to hear others to get wisdom and more understanding just like I would listen to many JW and mormon leaders and some satanism leaders but will not build my faith on them.
I did this one time by a old friend called cedric a mytholgy teacher, and I went over board in looking only at his side and doing no comparing with is dangerious and can lead to disceptions.
That is why we should do a flip flop study and researching which is looking about both side of a coin instead of just one side, and that is one reason I never just look only at catholic sources alone!

But getting bACK TO THE FINISHED WORK OF THE CROSS IS WELL SAID BY ANDREW WOMMACK without being one sided on this topic, it is awesome.
Thisteaching is good news for every believer of Christ and the body of Christ to once hear and specially the enemies of the cross on this link:

http://www.awmi.net/extra/audio/1073
Please listen to this both teaching and let me know what you think

also for my protestant brother like G$ listen to this dabate with a catholic priest Fr. Mitchell Pacwa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llYz2R9O2es

this link has 8 parts but this debate on justufication even pawe agreed in many thing said , in more point said by a non catholic but he stood on one point out of many which shows how the less can decieve and showing how a one point can take alot of things out of contexts not taking the whole picture!

one love

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Originally posted by God4me

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Originally posted by evangelist

I have heard this teaching =IT is Finished by wommack so many times that I had to give God praise and thankgiving more than ever before.
I must admit while discussing the finished work of the cross and death of Jesus and saying it is finished , that Sister FAITH was correct about that was about the end of the OT laws, not that we can do whatever we want becuase Jesus said it is finished!
I know even the ten commands is part of the laws but this must also be finished, but put in cintexts of our love toward others and God the laws are fulfiled in two cammandments as to love others as you love yourself!
I just want to thank FAITH openly for another truth!
There are many thing I love what Faith and even Mike and many other say about thier faith as a catholic and many thing I disagree with, which I am saying I take what is good and builds me up in my faith and more love to God and throw away the bad as garbage!
I am now also listening to Fr. Mitchell Pacwa who I love listening too and like the way he debates and explains the catholic views and doctrines even though I do hear alot of his teaching as garbage and heretic doctrines and misunderstandings but he does have alot of truth and good teaching as well.
I do take the time to listen to him , even though I believe he is missing the basic gospel and taken alot of bible out of contexts, I still will not call him a liar like catholic do with wommack I will not be ignorant not to listen to him and others like them, I think it is wise to hear others to get wisdom and more understanding just like I would listen to many JW and mormon leaders and some satanism leaders but will not build my faith on them.
I did this one time by a old friend called cedric a mytholgy teacher, and I went over board in looking only at his side and doing no comparing with is dangerious and can lead to disceptions.
That is why we should do a flip flop study and researching which is looking about both side of a coin instead of just one side, and that is one reason I never just look only at catholic sources alone!

But getting bACK TO THE FINISHED WORK OF THE CROSS IS WELL SAID BY ANDREW WOMMACK without being one sided on this topic, it is awesome.
Thisteaching is good news for every believer of Christ and the body of Christ to once hear and specially the enemies of the cross on this link:

http://www.awmi.net/extra/audio/1073
Please listen to this both teaching and let me know what you think

also for my protestant brother like G$ listen to this dabate with a catholic priest Fr. Mitchell Pacwa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llYz2R9O2es

this link has 8 parts but this debate on justufication even pawe agreed in many thing said , in more point said by a non catholic but he stood on one point out of many which shows how the less can decieve and showing how a one point can take alot of things out of contexts not taking the whole picture!

one love

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Fr Pacwa tries to protect the catholic views by telling lies.
You should watch him on the John Ankerberg show, Pacwa even tell lies about what the catholic teachings say.

He [Like all catholics] twists the scriptures.
He is suposed to be an educated Dr. of Theology yet he comes out with some sill childish statements that even a child wond't believe.

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Originally posted by michael

The Protestant man in the video is a typical Protestant who has created their own understanding through Protestantism of what the Catholic Church teaches.

Just as Protestants interpret the Catholic Bible the way they want it to be Protestants interpret the Catholic Church the way they want it to be.

Protestants simply do not know enough about the actual Catholic Church in order to actually understand it.

Protestantism as a whole has created their own catholic church based on false assumptions.

Scapegoating is the practice of singling out any party for unmerited negative treatment or blame.

Prejudice (or foredeeming) is making a judgment or assumption about someone or something before having enough knowledge to be able to do so with guaranteed accuracy. The word prejudice is most often used to refer to preconceived judgments toward people or a person because of race, social class, ethnicity, age, disability, obesity, religion, sexual orientation, or other personal characteristics. It also means beliefs without knowledge of the facts
[1] and may include "any unreasonable attitude that is unusually resistant to rational influence.
"[2] Prejudice can be described as unfavorable attitude towards a social group and its members. One would think that because of our ‘modern’ society and the continuous process of globalization the interaction between people from different backgrounds, ethnic groups and religions is constantly increasing, hence the phenomenon of prejudice and discrimination should be diminishing. However, that is not true. People identify themselves with different groups, which in turn gives them the satisfaction of being safe and belonging.

At 6:30 that man said “I having gone to catholic schools as you have & been trained in it know perfectly well”. That man is not even close to being a Catholic theologian.

Protestantism has redefined the Catholic Church with their prejudice.
Protestantism in turn creates what they believe based off of their false assumptions of their imaginary catholic church they created in their collective minds.

Protestantism created terminology & definitions does not mix with the Catholic terminology & definitions.

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Originally posted by evangelist

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Originally posted by michael

The Protestant man in the video is a typical Protestant who has created their own understanding through Protestantism of what the Catholic Church teaches.

Just as Protestants interpret the Catholic Bible the way they want it to be Protestants interpret the Catholic Church the way they want it to be.

Protestants simply do not know enough about the actual Catholic Church in order to actually understand it.

Protestantism as a whole has created their own catholic church based on false assumptions.

Scapegoating is the practice of singling out any party for unmerited negative treatment or blame.

Prejudice (or foredeeming) is making a judgment or assumption about someone or something before having enough knowledge to be able to do so with guaranteed accuracy. The word prejudice is most often used to refer to preconceived judgments toward people or a person because of race, social class, ethnicity, age, disability, obesity, religion, sexual orientation, or other personal characteristics. It also means beliefs without knowledge of the facts
[1] and may include "any unreasonable attitude that is unusually resistant to rational influence.
"[2] Prejudice can be described as unfavorable attitude towards a social group and its members. One would think that because of our ‘modern’ society and the continuous process of globalization the interaction between people from different backgrounds, ethnic groups and religions is constantly increasing, hence the phenomenon of prejudice and discrimination should be diminishing. However, that is not true. People identify themselves with different groups, which in turn gives them the satisfaction of being safe and belonging.

At 6:30 that man said “I having gone to catholic schools as you have & been trained in it know perfectly well”. That man is not even close to being a Catholic theologian.

Protestantism has redefined the Catholic Church with their prejudice.
Protestantism in turn creates what they believe based off of their false assumptions of their imaginary catholic church they created in their collective minds.

Protestantism created terminology & definitions does not mix with the Catholic terminology & definitions.

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This man Walter was not alone teaching or better say exposing the catholic dogma, there was a ordain active Priest to rebuke and reprove anything misunderstood and lied about the CC!

So what are you saying??

Are you thinking father Pacwa is really a protestant acting as a catholic priest scholar??

one love

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quote:

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Originally posted by michael

quote:

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Originally posted by evangelist

quote:

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Originally posted by michael

The Protestant man in the video is a typical Protestant who has created their own understanding through Protestantism of what the Catholic Church teaches.

Just as Protestants interpret the Catholic Bible the way they want it to be Protestants interpret the Catholic Church the way they want it to be.

Protestants simply do not know enough about the actual Catholic Church in order to actually understand it.

Protestantism as a whole has created their own catholic church based on false assumptions.

Scapegoating is the practice of singling out any party for unmerited negative treatment or blame.

Prejudice (or foredeeming) is making a judgment or assumption about someone or something before having enough knowledge to be able to do so with guaranteed accuracy. The word prejudice is most often used to refer to preconceived judgments toward people or a person because of race, social class, ethnicity, age, disability, obesity, religion, sexual orientation, or other personal characteristics. It also means beliefs without knowledge of the facts
[1] and may include "any unreasonable attitude that is unusually resistant to rational influence.
"[2] Prejudice can be described as unfavorable attitude towards a social group and its members. One would think that because of our ‘modern’ society and the continuous process of globalization the interaction between people from different backgrounds, ethnic groups and religions is constantly increasing, hence the phenomenon of prejudice and discrimination should be diminishing. However, that is not true. People identify themselves with different groups, which in turn gives them the satisfaction of being safe and belonging.

At 6:30 that man said “I having gone to catholic schools as you have & been trained in it know perfectly well”. That man is not even close to being a Catholic theologian.

Protestantism has redefined the Catholic Church with their prejudice.
Protestantism in turn creates what they believe based off of their false assumptions of their imaginary catholic church they created in their collective minds.

Protestantism created terminology & definitions does not mix with the Catholic terminology & definitions.

---

This man Walter was not alone teaching or better say exposing the catholic dogma, there was a ordain active Priest to rebuke and reprove anything misunderstood and lied about the CC!

So what are you saying??

Are you thinking father Pacwa is really a protestant acting as a catholic priest scholar??

one love

---

Is Walter Martin a Catholic theologian yes or no?
No he is not.

Protestantism simply does not know Catholic theology.
Protestantism has redefined the Catholic Church.

Im Catholic & when Protestants speak they reveal what they know & what they do not know about the Catholic faith. Protestants are unaware of what we know that they do not know about our Catholic faith.

The reason Protestants remain Protestant is because they have not made a connection between Catholic teachings.

Protestants do not have the knowledge & understanding in order to connect Catholic teachings together.

Protestants are taught to do the very opposite they divide Catholic teaching apart from one another & protest them individually. The more Protestants de-structure Catholic teachings they falsely assume they are getting smarter but the reality is the more they de-structure Catholic teachings the less & less recognizable it becomes.

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Originally posted by evangelist

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

I don't consider Wommack a Liar. I believe him to be a heretic because he teaches heresies. What he teaches goes against the Bible.

The Ten Commandments are not finished, as these were written in stone for all time and now written upon our hearts. Both Jesus Christ and Paul confirmed that the Ten Commandments are still in effect. However, you are right in that the Two Great Commandments do encompass all of them.

It is not the letter of the law that matters any more, but the Spirit of the Law. This does not mean that we are free to break the letter of the law, by no means. In Matthew 5, Jesus showed us the difference between the letter of the OT Law, and the Spirit of the Law under the NT.

Since my conversion, I have kept the letter of the law easily. I have never intentionally broken any civil laws either. When I have called myself a sinner, I was not speaking in terms of the letter of the OT law as obeyed by those under the OT laws - those are a cakewalk. It is the Spirit of the Law that is more challenging, but even that is still doable with Christ.

Perhaps instead of trying to figure out what was finished when Jesus died on the Cross you need to do a study on the need for repentance for born again Christians in the New Testament and try to reconcile the Bible with Andrew Wommack's teachings that we never need to repent, just accept that we have been forgiven.

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Is the ten commandment an OT commandment or a New testament commandment??

Neither. The Ten Commandments are God's Law. Period. They are eternal and unchangeable.

Is also the ten commandment is a law or a part of the laws mention in James 2:10

Jas:2:10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Yes, the Ten Commandments would also be included in this. But you keep missing the point. IF YOU ARE TRYING TO ENTER HEAVEN BY KEEPING THE LAWS INSTEAD OF ACCEPTING CHRIST, then yes you have a problem. It is true that breaking the least law still makes us a transgressor, but you err greatly when you reject sound New Testament teaching in order to force this one verse to mean more than it does.

John stated under inspiration that while all sin is sin, not all sins merit the same penalty. He clearly showed that there are venial sins and mortal sins. He explained that venial sins are covered by the prayers of the faithful. If this were not so, then yes, stealing a flower from your grandmother would still send you to HELL.

Praise be to God, that John clarified so that fools would not be teaching any such nonsense that all sins equally merit death.

ASo according to this scripture if I steal a flower from some old grand mother garden to give that one rose from that garden which was not mine to please my wife, that sin of stealing before God would be no difference from murder or adultery according to God judge on that one point, so that is why we need to trust Jesus His atonement and impartation of righteousness to us by faith, and His grace!

one love

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

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Originally posted by evangelist

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

I don't consider Wommack a Liar. I believe him to be a heretic because he teaches heresies. What he teaches goes against the Bible.

The Ten Commandments are not finished, as these were written in stone for all time and now written upon our hearts. Both Jesus Christ and Paul confirmed that the Ten Commandments are still in effect. However, you are right in that the Two Great Commandments do encompass all of them.

It is not the letter of the law that matters any more, but the Spirit of the Law. This does not mean that we are free to break the letter of the law, by no means. In Matthew 5, Jesus showed us the difference between the letter of the OT Law, and the Spirit of the Law under the NT.

Since my conversion, I have kept the letter of the law easily. I have never intentionally broken any civil laws either. When I have called myself a sinner, I was not speaking in terms of the letter of the OT law as obeyed by those under the OT laws - those are a cakewalk. It is the Spirit of the Law that is more challenging, but even that is still doable with Christ.

Perhaps instead of trying to figure out what was finished when Jesus died on the Cross you need to do a study on the need for repentance for born again Christians in the New Testament and try to reconcile the Bible with Andrew Wommack's teachings that we never need to repent, just accept that we have been forgiven.

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Is the ten commandment an OT commandment or a New testament commandment??

Neither. The Ten Commandments are God's Law. Period. They are eternal and unchangeable.

Is also the ten commandment is a law or a part of the laws mention in James 2:10

Jas:2:10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Yes, the Ten Commandments would also be included in this. But you keep missing the point. IF YOU ARE TRYING TO ENTER HEAVEN BY KEEPING THE LAWS INSTEAD OF ACCEPTING CHRIST, then yes you have a problem. It is true that breaking the least law still makes us a transgressor, but you err greatly when you reject sound New Testament teaching in order to force this one verse to mean more than it does.

John stated under inspiration that while all sin is sin, not all sins merit the same penalty. He clearly showed that there are venial sins and mortal sins. He explained that venial sins are covered by the prayers of the faithful. If this were not so, then yes, stealing a flower from your grandmother would still send you to HELL.

Praise be to God, that John clarified so that fools would not be teaching any such nonsense that all sins equally merit death.

ASo according to this scripture if I steal a flower from some old grand mother garden to give that one rose from that garden which was not mine to please my wife, that sin of stealing before God would be no difference from murder or adultery according to God judge on that one point, so that is why we need to trust Jesus His atonement and impartation of righteousness to us by faith, and His grace!

one love

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As I stated above, John has you covered. Why do you insist on accepting James (at least in tiny part), whom Luther rejected completely, and yet you denounce John as a liar and a heretic?

Do you not see how you mangle the New Testament?

John also very carefully preserved Christ's own words on the matter in John 15. You know what it takes to remain in Christ and yet you teach others to ignore the very Word of God in favour of your modern man-made tradition.

I know that you mean well, but you are making Martin Luther's mistake. And believe it or not, what you show is not Faith at all, but an almost complete lack of Faith in Christ. You have put all of your faith into Andrew Wommack, trusting that he is right and faith is a done deal, even though the Bible says that this is not so.

Faith is an ongoing thing - a lifestyle choice. Just as some choose to live a life of sin, others choose to live a life of faith. To truly live with Faith one must turn their back on sin.

No door to sin can ever be left open, neither in word or deed or thought. We no longer have that right. We were purchased for a price. We are owned, body, mind, soul and spirit by Jesus Christ.

But the good news is that we have been set free from sin, and we can resist sin and we can be reconciled with Christ if we stumble, but first we need to acknowledge that we need this and we need Him.

No one can save themselves. This is not about self-righteousness or self-salvation. It is only WITH Christ that this is possible - but it does take FAITH.

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Originally posted by mikejuli

i listened to that debate evan. do you agree with what the protestant said? basically that there is no freewill? that it is finished really means god has put chains back on us? that is really what he means by grace. catholics understand grace not as god forcing but god truly freeing us. that is the real problem.. for those who focus on extreme grace cannot loose salvation because they have no free will any more.. and those, like the catholic understand that the only thing that can separate us from god is our own god given free will. no amount of hiding behind an innacurate understanding of "it is finished" will change that unless you mean that "it is finished" refers to the removal of free will.

so which is it. did god take away your freewill or did he really free you?

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Originally posted by evangelist

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Originally posted by michael

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Originally posted by evangelist

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Originally posted by michael

The Protestant man in the video is a typical Protestant who has created their own understanding through Protestantism of what the Catholic Church teaches.

Just as Protestants interpret the Catholic Bible the way they want it to be Protestants interpret the Catholic Church the way they want it to be.

Protestants simply do not know enough about the actual Catholic Church in order to actually understand it.

Protestantism as a whole has created their own catholic church based on false assumptions.

Scapegoating is the practice of singling out any party for unmerited negative treatment or blame.

Prejudice (or foredeeming) is making a judgment or assumption about someone or something before having enough knowledge to be able to do so with guaranteed accuracy. The word prejudice is most often used to refer to preconceived judgments toward people or a person because of race, social class, ethnicity, age, disability, obesity, religion, sexual orientation, or other personal characteristics. It also means beliefs without knowledge of the facts
[1] and may include "any unreasonable attitude that is unusually resistant to rational influence.
"[2] Prejudice can be described as unfavorable attitude towards a social group and its members. One would think that because of our ‘modern’ society and the continuous process of globalization the interaction between people from different backgrounds, ethnic groups and religions is constantly increasing, hence the phenomenon of prejudice and discrimination should be diminishing. However, that is not true. People identify themselves with different groups, which in turn gives them the satisfaction of being safe and belonging.

At 6:30 that man said “I having gone to catholic schools as you have & been trained in it know perfectly well”. That man is not even close to being a Catholic theologian.

Protestantism has redefined the Catholic Church with their prejudice.
Protestantism in turn creates what they believe based off of their false assumptions of their imaginary catholic church they created in their collective minds.

Protestantism created terminology & definitions does not mix with the Catholic terminology & definitions.

---

This man Walter was not alone teaching or better say exposing the catholic dogma, there was a ordain active Priest to rebuke and reprove anything misunderstood and lied about the CC!

So what are you saying??

Are you thinking father Pacwa is really a protestant acting as a catholic priest scholar??

one love

---

Is Walter Martin a Catholic theologian yes or no?
No he is not.

Protestantism simply does not know Catholic theology.
Protestantism has redefined the Catholic Church.

Im Catholic & when Protestants speak they reveal what they know & what they do not know about the Catholic faith. Protestants are unaware of what we know that they do not know about our Catholic faith.

The reason Protestants remain Protestant is because they have not made a connection between Catholic teachings.

Protestants do not have the knowledge & understanding in order to connect Catholic teachings together.

Protestants are taught to do the very opposite they divide Catholic teaching apart from one another & protest them individually. The more Protestants de-structure Catholic teachings they falsely assume they are getting smarter but the reality is the more they de-structure Catholic teachings the less & less recognizable it becomes.

---

are you thinking father Pacwa is really a protestant acting as a catholic priest scholar??

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