The meaning of IT IS FINISHED!
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I have heard this teaching =IT is Finished by wommack so many times that I had to give God praise and thankgiving more than ever before.I must admit while discussing the finished work of the cross and death of Jesus and saying it is finished , that Sister FAITH was correct more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 12/26/2011 08:14:35
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It is finish
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
It is finish meaning the wrath of god on us was finished on the cross!
It is Jesus became a lighting rod for all sons and daughters so we don't get shocked By any sins!
John 20:17 and ephesians 4:8-10!deut 21:22,23
Ga:3:13: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Ga:3:14: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.Ga:3:15: Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
Ga:3:16: Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Ga:3:17: And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Ga:3:18: For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Ga:3:19: Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Ga:3:20: Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Ga:3:21: Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Ga:3:22: But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.Ga:3:23: But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Ga:3:24: Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Ga:3:25: But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.Ga:3:26: For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
One Love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 01/04/2012 17:37:26
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
It is finish meaning the wrath of god on us was finished on the cross!
It is Jesus became a lighting rod for all sons and daughters so we don't get shocked By any sins!
John 20:17 and ephesians 4:8-10!deut 21:22,23
Galations 3:13,14
One Love
That is not what Jesus meant when He said "it is finished" upon the Cross. He was quoting from a variety of sources during the event, even when He said "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me". All quotes. "It is finished" is a quote from the Passover Ritual.
None of those passages have anything to do with what you claim. They do pertain to Christ, but only Galations comes close, and that only refers to the promise that we MIGHT receive, not about any guarantees of salvation no matter what.
I gave you plenty of passages that show very clearly that what we do matters very much. And that if we sin without repenting, we will be cut off from Jesus and be counted among the unbelievers.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
It is finish meaning the wrath of god on us was finished on the cross!
It is Jesus became a lighting rod for all sons and daughters so we don't get shocked By any sins!
John 20:17 and ephesians 4:8-10!deut 21:22,23
Galations 3:13,14
One Love
That is not what Jesus meant when He said "it is finished" upon the Cross. He was quoting from a variety of sources during the event, even when He said "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me". All quotes. "It is finished" is a quote from the Passover Ritual.
None of those passages have anything to do with what you claim. They do pertain to Christ, but only Galations comes close, and that only refers to the promise that we MIGHT receive, not about any guarantees of salvation no matter what.
I gave you plenty of passages that show very clearly that what we do matters very much. And that if we sin without repenting, we will be cut off from Jesus and be counted among the unbelievers.
If you are a unbeliever then your quote would stand!
oone love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Why? The passages show that the BORN AGAIN, BAPTIZED, FAITH-FILLED, SPIRIT FILLED, BELIEVER that does not do what God has set for him or her to do, then they are no better off than the unbeliever that does the exact same thing.
The difference between the believer and the unbeliever is not a free pass, but a transformation.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Why? The passages show that the BORN AGAIN, BAPTIZED, FAITH-FILLED, SPIRIT FILLED, BELIEVER that does not do what God has set for him or her to do, then they are no better off than the unbeliever that does the exact same thing.
The difference between the believer and the unbeliever is not a free pass, but a transformation.
Did Jesus did all the laws and commandments
for us born again christian so His righteousness can be imputted to us??
Ga:3:10: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Ga:3:11: But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Ga:3:12: And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Ga:3:13: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Ga:3:14: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Is the does and the don't God has set for us to do , are they laws sister FAITH???
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 01/05/2012 06:19:46
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
It is finish meaning the wrath of god on us was finished on the cross!
It is Jesus became a lighting rod for all sons and daughters so we don't get shocked By any sins!
John 20:17 and ephesians 4:8-10!deut 21:22,23
Galations 3:13,14
One Love
That is not what Jesus meant when He said "it is finished" upon the Cross. He was quoting from a variety of sources during the event, even when He said "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me". All quotes. "It is finished" is a quote from the Passover Ritual.
None of those passages have anything to do with what you claim. They do pertain to Christ, but only Galations comes close, and that only refers to the promise that we MIGHT receive, not about any guarantees of salvation no matter what.
I gave you plenty of passages that show very clearly that what we do matters very much. And that if we sin without repenting, we will be cut off from Jesus and be counted among the unbelievers.
I am not trying to put our salvation on any external works or performance , my point is showing you that it is about what all is put of Christ alone not an added addition of something we have to do to help Christ, like Christ is not strong enough to finish His promises to us!
The commands and laws kills but Christ is where we have joy and victory and God is please with Him so God is pleased with us, that the good news and that is unconditional because of the finished work Christ did all for us on the cross!
Ro:10:3: For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
This above scripture would fit with your philosophy and most of your church beliefs!
Ro:10:4: For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Ro:10:5: For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Ro:10:6: But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Ro:10:7: Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Ro:10:8: But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
The faith is trusting what is promised to us, and knowing by all your heart and soul it is true and you will give your life for this truth with no doubts whatsoever, that is the faith taught by Paul and in Romans here and other many passages which is the root of our salvation and the seed!
Because of this heart knowledge of truth , we then show this sooner or latter as a fruit as our mind gets renewed by recieving the revelation of the seed of righteousness give by grace to us unconditional as a free gift direct from God!wwwooowww!
Everything must start from a seed and the roots, just like Jesus spoke to the bush which brought no fruit it weather away latter , but as soon as Jesus spoke it instantly died in it roots which man did not see untill latter!
The same principle also happen in things which bring life, the seed comes alive and then the roots, and then the birth, just like the primciple of having a child, the sperm the seed , then the process inside, and 9 mouth latter man see's what happen before in the seed or what God seen the seed!
That why the seed or the heart is the most important part of us before God!wwwooowww!
We do have a teaching which is so true seed time and harvest, which the body of Christ needs to get that revelation like a farmer to know who they are in Christ Jesus!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Why? The passages show that the BORN AGAIN, BAPTIZED, FAITH-FILLED, SPIRIT FILLED, BELIEVER that does not do what God has set for him or her to do, then they are no better off than the unbeliever that does the exact same thing.
The difference between the believer and the unbeliever is not a free pass, but a transformation.
Did Jesus did all the laws and commandments
for us born again christian so His righteousness can be imputted to us??
Ga:3:10: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Ga:3:11: But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Ga:3:12: And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Ga:3:13: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Ga:3:14: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Is the does and the don't God has set for us to do , are they laws sister FAITH???
one love
God Laws are MANDATORY. God did not give suggestions.
But there is one thing in the Bible that you keep missing. The righteous have no need of Laws. At all. Nada. The Bible says this. And you know this with absolute certainty. But what you missed is that the reason that the righteous don't need laws is that they don't do anything that would require a law to prevent.
If we Love our neighbour as ourself, which Christ commanded of us, then we don't steal from him, or murder him, or sleep with his spouse, or be jealous of his house and good fortune. If we love God with all of our heart and strength and mind and spirit, we won't knowingly or willingly do things that we know would offend Him. We certainly would not be putting stuff ahead of Him - not gold or jewels or fancy cars or drugs or anything else.
Love is simple. No worrying about what we may or may not do. No do's or don'ts. Just LOVE.
Through Christ, all our past sins (as in previously committed before coming to Christ) are forgiven - done. Forever. And new sins can also be forgiven through repentance and confession.
We have so much advantage over the unbelievers and yet you reject all that Christ gave you.
He came to save you, not just give you a free pass.
If your understanding of the Gospel were true, then God would a monster who was undeserving of any respect or love. If you were right, then I would rather go to Hell that to be forever with an unjust "god" who torments his people with laws that according to you are impossible to keep.
If sin is not an issue now, then it never was. God does not change.
Laws identify what is sinful, but the Laws were not what made sin a sin. Murder was always wrong, even before God made a commandment against it. So was stealing.
God destroyed Sodom and Gommorrah before He gave us Laws against homosexuality. He flooded the earth before giving anyone the Ten commandments.
Those that died sinned without there ever having been The Law. They were not under Mosaic Law or the Ten Commandments because they had not been given yet.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 10/13/2007
Location: USA
Reflecting on my last sentence, the Catholic works you despise are not dead. The Eucharistic is one of the traditions Paul tells us to hold fast to (as confirmed by the church fathers).
Sure, the concept of sola fide sounds nice, but Jesus says his children are those who obey his commandments.
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
As michael said, the cup that Jesus asked the Father to remove was finished. There is another cup - the one Paul refers to as "the cup that we bless".
During the passover seder, the family ate the sacrificial lamb (interestingly enough, they were to do this in one house and only after they understood and accepted the teachings).
Though prophecy was fulfilled and the redemptive sacrifice was finished at Calvary, we have an essential role in its completion. Our Lord tells us to eat of his flesh and drink of his blood.
As Paul points out, He died for our sins but was raised for our justification (Romans 4:25). The importance of Jesus' death is incredible, but the resurrection is equally as important. We must not focus on his death and set aside his resurrection, because our preaching is in vain without it.
Unlike the Jews who ate a dead lamb, Christians are to consume the Risen Christ.
the death is that which cancel sins, the resurrection is the righteousness, and justification in christ giving us the rights to go to the throne of god!
One love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
The death of Christ on the cross paid for the sins of the whole world. But, you still need to draw from that well.
The Bible clearly states, whether you agree with the Bible or not, that when we come to Christ, it is our past, previously committed, sins that are washed away. Sins committed after that point, must be repented of, and if we confess our sins, then we will be forgiven and cleansed of our unrighteousness. If we don't do this then those new sins will not be forgiven.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 10/13/2007
Location: USA
quote:
the death is that which cancel sins, the resurrection is the righteousness, and justification in christ giving us the rights to go to the throne of god!
One love
Yes. And amen to that! As Christ's brethren through the grace of filial adoption, we do have those rights. However, like Faith said, our past sins are forgiven when we come to Christ. Not our future sins. Christ's righteousness will not cover continual transgression.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Sin separates us from God and the right to approach his throne, even if we commit it after coming to Christ.
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Let me rephrase that. It is worse if we sin after coming to Christ. The godless heathen will be judged more leniently than those who know of Christ's atonement yet sin anyways.
2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Love is indeed the mark of Christ!
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 [navy]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Why? The passages show that the BORN AGAIN, BAPTIZED, FAITH-FILLED, SPIRIT FILLED, BELIEVER that does not do what God has set for him or her to do, then they are no better off than the unbeliever that does the exact same thing.
The difference between the believer and the unbeliever is not a free pass, but a transformation.
Did Jesus did all the laws and commandments
for us born again christian so His righteousness can be imputted to us??
Ga:3:10: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Ga:3:11: But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Ga:3:12: And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Ga:3:13: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Ga:3:14: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Is the does and the don't God has set for us to do , are they laws sister FAITH???
one love
God Laws are MANDATORY. God did not give suggestions.
But there is one thing in the Bible that you keep missing. The righteous have no need of Laws. At all. Nada. The Bible says this. And you know this with absolute certainty. But what you missed is that the reason that the righteous don't need laws is that they don't do anything that would require a law to prevent.
If we Love our neighbour as ourself, which Christ commanded of us, then we don't steal from him, or murder him, or sleep with his spouse, or be jealous of his house and good fortune. If we love God with all of our heart and strength and mind and spirit, we won't knowingly or willingly do things that we know would offend Him. We certainly would not be putting stuff ahead of Him - not gold or jewels or fancy cars or drugs or anything else.
Love is simple. No worrying about what we may or may not do. No do's or don'ts. Just LOVE.
Through Christ, all our past sins (as in previously committed before coming to Christ) are forgiven - done. Forever. And new sins can also be forgiven through repentance and confession.
We have so much advantage over the unbelievers and yet you reject all that Christ gave you.
He came to save you, not just give you a free pass.
If your understanding of the Gospel were true, then God would a monster who was undeserving of any respect or love. If you were right, then I would rather go to Hell that to be forever with an unjust "god" who torments his people with laws that according to you are impossible to keep.
If sin is not an issue now, then it never was. God does not change.
Laws identify what is sinful, but the Laws were not what made sin a sin. Murder was always wrong, even before God made a commandment against it. So was stealing.
God destroyed Sodom and Gommorrah before He gave us Laws against homosexuality. He flooded the earth before giving anyone the Ten commandments.
Those that died sinned without there ever having been The Law. They were not under Mosaic Law or the Ten Commandments because they had not been given yet.
Who is in error the bible or you??
Ro:3:10: As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
The only way you can put this in true perpective is the righteousness can only be from Jesus to us and none of our righteousness can count before God because it is as dirty rags, but Jesus righteousness imputted to us is pure and accepted by God!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Reflecting on my last sentence, the Catholic works you despise are not dead. The Eucharistic is one of the traditions Paul tells us to hold fast to (as confirmed by the church fathers).
Sure, the concept of sola fide sounds nice, but Jesus says his children are those who obey his commandments.
When you adopt a child, do they first have to pass of test of obeying every command before they can be in the family after a few years living by you to be tested??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
The death of Christ on the cross paid for the sins of the whole world. But, you still need to draw from that well.
The Bible clearly states, whether you agree with the Bible or not, that when we come to Christ, it is our past, previously committed, sins that are washed away. Sins committed after that point, must be repented of, and if we confess our sins, then we will be forgiven and cleansed of our unrighteousness. If we don't do this then those new sins will not be forgiven.
Then if that was true Jesus would have to be put on the cross over and over again forever to get our sins forgive o, but He found a better way by forgiving all our sins one time and for all time once!
read Hebrew 10,!
You never accepted the study we did on it and that why you reject the truth and study of Hebrews 10 to put or show sins is not an issue and we are forgive of all sins , past ,present and all future sins once and for all!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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