The meaning of IT IS FINISHED!
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I have heard this teaching =IT is Finished by wommack so many times that I had to give God praise and thankgiving more than ever before.I must admit while discussing the finished work of the cross and death of Jesus and saying it is finished , that Sister FAITH was correct more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 12/26/2011 08:14:35
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, those that are closer to Christ, do sin a lot less than those who are further away.
I have kept the letter of the Law, perfectly since my conversion. When I speak of being a sinner, I am struggling with matters that worldly people wouldn't even think of as being sinful.
But even before my spiritual conversion, my life as a Christian had a few wobbles in it, but still way better than those outside of Christ, and still better than those that refuse to let Christ transform them.
The New Testament authors confirm that it is still possible for a Christian to stumble, but Paul also makes it clear in his letters to the Corinthians that if a born again Christians does not repent of a serious sin, he or she will be lost.
If we do stumble, we have a remedy, but that remedy only works if we use it. Saying that we don't need to is a dangerous assumption and the sweetest lie that Satan ever told.
We all have our crosses to bear, some are trickier than others. But Jesus gives us the remedy in the scriptures.
Future sins are not forgiven until we are ready to return to Christ.
Just as 1 John 1:9 shows that we can be cleansed, again, of all unrighteousness (which proves that we can become unrighteous due to sins), James 5:14-15 also shows that sins can be forgiven for born again Christians, which also proves that those sins were NOT automatically forgiven.
Both authors were writing to born again Christians, so it is clear that future sins are not forgiven unless we seek forgiveness for them.
This is consistent with Paul's statement in Romans 3:25 that it is our PAST, previously committed sins that are remitted, not our future sins. But all sins can be forgiven, all we need to do is ask.
If we ask for a sin to be forgiven by faith what is the thing with is offered again to get that sin forgiven when we know Jesus only died once for all times for that sin to be forgiven??
Are you asking so something new to make that actual sin forgiven??
If all our sins were forgiven when Jesus said IT is FINISHED, then that would be too good news and a gospel truth!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
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Originally posted by evangelist
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Originally posted by acumenCry
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1) A lost person pays for his own sins at the White Throne Judgment. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24
Yes, those who do not believe that Jesus is he will die in their sins. But "believing in him" is not limited to believing that he died for your sins. We must believe in all of him. All he did and said and told us to do. Those who truly believe in and accept him in will not continue to sin after coming to him, and when they do, they will repent and ask for the grace needed to refrain from said sin. He is a merciful God, but we must not risk offending him by living in the sin he has saved us from. That is re-sacrificing him. We are not to be like dogs who return to their own vomit. Peter makes the fate of those who do very clear when he says it would be better if they never knew him.
Go deeper.
8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Notice that Jesus is talking to the Jews who believed in him, not unbelievers. He is telling them they are slaves to sin in spite of their special family ties which do not make them free. It would be much like modern day born-again Evangelicals saying, "but we're Christ's brethren. We are free!"
The Truth will set us free. Not part of the truth (Jesus died for our sins), but the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. This truth frees us from slavery to sin which once overtook and controlled our lives. Instead of serving sin, we are now able to serve God. Instead of living in sin and darkness, we are now able to live in the Light of Christ.
Again, his yoke is easy and his burden is light. It is not a heavy burden to follow God's laws like you think. It is the complete opposite. When the Law was written in stone, it was a heavy burden. But just as Jesus prophesied, it is not that way now that it is written in our hearts.
I now find more pleasure in obediently serving God and observing his laws than I ever found in sin. THAT, my friend, is the too good gospel! 
This bears repeating: Without repentance, future sins are not forgiven. Anything that teaches Christians to keep their guard down is a doctrine from Satan.
We all continue to sin some way or another usless you claim to be perfect like Jesus which I know you ain't!
To be accepted by God you must be also pefect to enter heaven is that correct??
So again if you die in a sin before confession you must go to hell correct??
one love
I'm far from perfect, but when I slip, I repent, and when I fall, he picks me up again.
Will I go to hell if I die before I confess? Don't be silly. God is not a petty trickster god like Anansi or Loki. He knows the intentions of my heart and whether or not my repentance is sincere, and he would judge accordingly.
When saying this would make the bible a lie and contradictory!
It says you must ask for forgiveness unless your sins were already forgiven as future sins forgaved!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
quote:
To be accepted by God you must be also pefect to enter heaven is that correct??
To be accepted? No. He accepts as we are when we come to him, but as newborn babes, we are to grow from there. He feeds, nurtures and (if need be) refines us.
To enter heaven? Well, I would not want to kneel before my King in all his power and glory any other way. Besides, I don't see how an impure soul could survive being in the presence of such magnificence. If I have to go through purgatory to get there, so be it.
Revelation 21:7 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
The purging starts here in this life, so it only makes sense that it would continue in the afterlife. As someone who, at times, has fought with God, I can testify that it's much easier, quicker and less painful to just "let go and let God", allowing him to purge us of our faults, impurities and lusts for the world his way instead of us trying to "cling to our life" and thus "losing it". Though as a result of man's fallen nature, that is often a hard choice to make (which is why I admire the saints).
Regardless of how this purification process is conducted, we are to aim at heaven, not purgatory.
That is why a purgatory would be a enemy of the cross, because we do go boldly to the throne of God and not noldly to a purgatory!
Hebrews 10 teaches this so clearly.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
I know, you may say that this is the Old Testament. Let's see what Jesus has to say...
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
We are called to be perfect like our Lord. If someone wanted to "be like Mike", would you tell them they could never dunk a basketball like him? How much more are we to try to be like the perfect role model, Jesus Christ?
In God eyes we can't be like Jesus in the mind and flesh that is impossible , that is why we need a Jesus redemption for us so we can be redeemed and righteous perfection imputted to us!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, those that are closer to Christ, do sin a lot less than those who are further away.
I have kept the letter of the Law, perfectly since my conversion. When I speak of being a sinner, I am struggling with matters that worldly people wouldn't even think of as being sinful.
But even before my spiritual conversion, my life as a Christian had a few wobbles in it, but still way better than those outside of Christ, and still better than those that refuse to let Christ transform them.
The New Testament authors confirm that it is still possible for a Christian to stumble, but Paul also makes it clear in his letters to the Corinthians that if a born again Christians does not repent of a serious sin, he or she will be lost.
If we do stumble, we have a remedy, but that remedy only works if we use it. Saying that we don't need to is a dangerous assumption and the sweetest lie that Satan ever told.
We all have our crosses to bear, some are trickier than others. But Jesus gives us the remedy in the scriptures.
Future sins are not forgiven until we are ready to return to Christ.
Just as 1 John 1:9 shows that we can be cleansed, again, of all unrighteousness (which proves that we can become unrighteous due to sins), James 5:14-15 also shows that sins can be forgiven for born again Christians, which also proves that those sins were NOT automatically forgiven.
Both authors were writing to born again Christians, so it is clear that future sins are not forgiven unless we seek forgiveness for them.
This is consistent with Paul's statement in Romans 3:25 that it is our PAST, previously committed sins that are remitted, not our future sins. But all sins can be forgiven, all we need to do is ask.
If we ask for a sin to be forgiven by faith what is the thing with is offered again to get that sin forgiven when we know Jesus only died once for all times for that sin to be forgiven??
Are you asking so something new to make that actual sin forgiven??
If all our sins were forgiven when Jesus said IT is FINISHED, then that would be too good news and a gospel truth!
one love
Evangelist, I will answer here with the same answer I gave on the other thread.
When Jesus died, He paid our debt to sin. His death provided unlimited credit for all of us.
When we are born again, all past sins are forgiven. The Bible says this plainly. Past sins, previously committed, are forgiven.
If we sin after coming to Christ, we incur new debt. Future sins are not forgiven until they have been committed and then remitted.
Same bank account. Unlimited credit. All we need to do is make a withdrawal. This we do by repenting of our sins and being reconciled back to Christ.
Christ's credit is good. He does not need to die again. We don't need to offer up any goats or bulls. The credit is still there available to anyone who wants to make a withdrawal.
The Bible shows how we do this. We need to be reconciled to Christ again and this we do through repentance and confession. We can only be baptized once, but we can repent as often as necessary - 1 John 1:9 shows us this, even if you are unwilling to accept this great news.
Added:
Also, if when Christ said "it is finished" meant what you said it does, then no one was forgiven after that point.
If you can dip into that well to be forgiven when you come to Christ, which the Bible CLEARLY states covers sins already commited. Then there is absolutely no reason why you can't seek forgiveness for future sins and obtain forgiveness from that same font, as often as necessary.
If this were not so, then you would not have been able to draw from that well the first time around either.
Fortunately for us, the thing that was finished was the Old Covenant, not the New. If the New Covenant was finished, then Christ would have to come again and die again in order to give us yet another covenant.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
Edited by Faith_at_Large on 01/15/2012 19:39:00
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Fifth Member
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Of course we need Jesus. Because you believe future sins are forgiven when we accept Jesus, you are missing my point.
Repentence is needed for sins we commit after our slate has been cleaned by the blood of Christ. We can not continue to be servants of sin. As long as we are serving sin, we can not serve God. We can not serve two masters!
In the OT, those who looked upon the snake on the cross and were healed then turned from God to sin and began serving a false god. What did God do? He destroyed them.
He did not say, if you look upon the cross, all your past, present and future diseases will be healed.
In the same way, when Christ saves, he tells the saved to go and sin no more.
You said earlier that stealing someone's flower was just as big of a sin as murder, so you should depend on Christ's sacrifice just as much (or something like that). How about instead showing a little respect and appreciation to Christ by not stealing or at least trying not to? He is not a magic token whose duty is to protect us from the consequences of our actions like a contraceptive.
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
Edited by acumenCry on 01/15/2012 22:45:07
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Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, those that are closer to Christ, do sin a lot less than those who are further away.
I have kept the letter of the Law, perfectly since my conversion. When I speak of being a sinner, I am struggling with matters that worldly people wouldn't even think of as being sinful.
But even before my spiritual conversion, my life as a Christian had a few wobbles in it, but still way better than those outside of Christ, and still better than those that refuse to let Christ transform them.
The New Testament authors confirm that it is still possible for a Christian to stumble, but Paul also makes it clear in his letters to the Corinthians that if a born again Christians does not repent of a serious sin, he or she will be lost.
If we do stumble, we have a remedy, but that remedy only works if we use it. Saying that we don't need to is a dangerous assumption and the sweetest lie that Satan ever told.
We all have our crosses to bear, some are trickier than others. But Jesus gives us the remedy in the scriptures.
Future sins are not forgiven until we are ready to return to Christ.
Just as 1 John 1:9 shows that we can be cleansed, again, of all unrighteousness (which proves that we can become unrighteous due to sins), James 5:14-15 also shows that sins can be forgiven for born again Christians, which also proves that those sins were NOT automatically forgiven.
Both authors were writing to born again Christians, so it is clear that future sins are not forgiven unless we seek forgiveness for them.
This is consistent with Paul's statement in Romans 3:25 that it is our PAST, previously committed sins that are remitted, not our future sins. But all sins can be forgiven, all we need to do is ask.
If we ask for a sin to be forgiven by faith what is the thing with is offered again to get that sin forgiven when we know Jesus only died once for all times for that sin to be forgiven??
Are you asking so something new to make that actual sin forgiven??
If all our sins were forgiven when Jesus said IT is FINISHED, then that would be too good news and a gospel truth!
one love
Evangelist, I will answer here with the same answer I gave on the other thread.
When Jesus died, He paid our debt to sin. His death provided unlimited credit for all of us.
When we are born again, all past sins are forgiven. The Bible says this plainly. Past sins, previously committed, are forgiven.
If we sin after coming to Christ, we incur new debt. Future sins are not forgiven until they have been committed and then remitted.
Same bank account. Unlimited credit. All we need to do is make a withdrawal. This we do by repenting of our sins and being reconciled back to Christ.
Christ's credit is good. He does not need to die again. We don't need to offer up any goats or bulls. The credit is still there available to anyone who wants to make a withdrawal.
The Bible shows how we do this. We need to be reconciled to Christ again and this we do through repentance and confession. We can only be baptized once, but we can repent as often as necessary - 1 John 1:9 shows us this, even if you are unwilling to accept this great news.
Added:
Also, if when Christ said "it is finished" meant what you said it does, then no one was forgiven after that point.
If you can dip into that well to be forgiven when you come to Christ, which the Bible CLEARLY states covers sins already commited. Then there is absolutely no reason why you can't seek forgiveness for future sins and obtain forgiveness from that same font, as often as necessary.
If this were not so, then you would not have been able to draw from that well the first time around either.
Fortunately for us, the thing that was finished was the Old Covenant, not the New. If the New Covenant was finished, then Christ would have to come again and die again in order to give us yet another covenant.
The New covenant is a done deal and that is why our all our future sins are forgiven we just have to recieve that covernant by faith!
You are still using the OT way by having to put your sins under a new blood of Jesus , which is impossible only not using bull and goats, but you are using the same mind set as the old testament people was under ever time they sinned!
the finished work of the cross way a better accout to redraw from!
tHAT IS WHY SATAN TWISTED 1 John 1:9 to put real believers under a condemnation and legalism ritual of getting their sins forgiven in the present and future and under law of not forgetting a law´and rule of getting saved again when asking for forgiveness when Jesus already forgave 2000 years ago because God doesn't live in a time realm like us, His finished work is done and now it is up to us just to recieved what He finished 2000 years ago on the cross for us!
Please don't be an enemie of the cross!
Please ask the Holy Spirit to give you revelation of this:
Ro:5:8: But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Ro:5:9: Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.Ro:5:10: For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.Ro:5:11: And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Ro:5:12: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Ro:5:13: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
That is why we are no more under the law but under grace and even more sense we are born again christian joint married to Christ!
The wrath of God is on sinners not us even when we sin we don't recieve that wrath of God unless you believe the bible contradict itself!
That is why knowing these verses above makes sin not an issue to be that any wrath of God will come on me, so God is please with me in His grace imputted to me and that is why I am reconciled to Jesus and by Jesus alone!
Don't you know that now that is why satan know now the error he did by getting Jesus nailed to the cross, and really how it is the greatest gospel of the finshed work of the cross is to believers??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
The Bible says that PAST sins are forgiven and that new sins are forgiven once they are remedied in accordance with the scriptures. Why do you insist on arguing against the Bible?
Is the Bible not even slightly authoritative to you?
And why blame Satan for your own refusal to accept what is plainly written in the scriptures?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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The Old Covenant ended with the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross, ("It is finished" or "It is fulfilled" were His last words) and the New Covenant was established with His resurrection from the dead.
Jesus said "Teltelestai" = "It is finished" also translated as "It is fulfilled". It is the Old Covenant Law that prepared us for His coming that is fulfilled. It cannot be His work of salvation because that will not be fulfilled until His glorious resurrection. It is the Old Covenant sacrificial and purification system that has been fulfilled in the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. He became the ultimate, the perfect sacrifice for sin.
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
The Bible says that PAST sins are forgiven and that new sins are forgiven once they are remedied in accordance with the scriptures. Why do you insist on arguing against the Bible?
Is the Bible not even slightly authoritative to you?
And why blame Satan for your own refusal to accept what is plainly written in the scriptures?
NO! all sins were forgiven 2000 years ago, so it is us who must use our faith to recieve that forgiven of sins done for us 3000 year ago.
Do you think everytime you sin God is doing something new again to get those sins forgiven?
You admit Jesus only died once for all times, so now Jesus is sitting back on the mercy seat and waiting on us to use our faith in what we been forgiven of and that is why past , present and all future sins were forgiven unless you think Jesus has to go back on the cross and shed blood again like the OT traditions was done!
That is why He did all He can do fgr us on the cross and that is finished even the forgiveness of all sins past , present and future sins!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Knights_Templar
The Old Covenant ended with the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross, ("It is finished" or "It is fulfilled" were His last words) and the New Covenant was established with His resurrection from the dead.
Jesus said "Teltelestai" = "It is finished" also translated as "It is fulfilled". It is the Old Covenant Law that prepared us for His coming that is fulfilled. It cannot be His work of salvation because that will not be fulfilled until His glorious resurrection. It is the Old Covenant sacrificial and purification system that has been fulfilled in the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. He became the ultimate, the perfect sacrifice for sin.
Amen!
The system as you said of getting every single sin put on the cross after you are saved was finshed, and amen that is the perfect sacrafice and done deaal , and too news of the gospel we have today in our NT covenant!
well said KT!
Shalom
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
The Bible says that PAST sins are forgiven and that new sins are forgiven once they are remedied in accordance with the scriptures. Why do you insist on arguing against the Bible?
Is the Bible not even slightly authoritative to you?
And why blame Satan for your own refusal to accept what is plainly written in the scriptures?
NO! all sins were forgiven 2000 years ago, so it is us who must use our faith to recieve that forgiven of sins done for us 3000 year ago.
Do you think everytime you sin God is doing something new again to get those sins forgiven?
You admit Jesus only died once for all times, so now Jesus is sitting back on the mercy seat and waiting on us to use our faith in what we been forgiven of and that is why past , present and all future sins were forgiven unless you think Jesus has to go back on the cross and shed blood again like the OT traditions was done!
That is why He did all He can do fgr us on the cross and that is finished even the forgiveness of all sins past , present and future sins!
one love
If what you say is true, then why do we need to repent ever. Should not all sins be automatically forgiven and everyone be saved?
The debt is paid for all time. Christ's death on the cross provides unlimited credit for our account - but we need to make a withdrawal.
We make a big withdrawal when we are born again - all past sins are paid for and washed away. I gave you the quote - PAST sins, as in previously committed sins are washed away.
If we sin again after coming to Christ, when we have created new debt. But we have credit to cover that debt, all we need to do is make another withdrawal to cover that new debt. It is available to us, all we need to do is use it.
1 John 1:9 and James 5:14-15 shows that it is possible for born again Christians to have unforgiven sins. If these sins had been automatically forgiven like you claim then both of these passages would be a lie.
2 Corinthians 7:1 1Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
They already have the promises, therefore they have been born again already - which makes sense since Paul was writing to born again Christians. And yet here AGAIN Paul is saying that we must cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit.
We must do something. The Bible tells us what. I gave you the passages that say the what, and I have given you other passages that explain how this is possible and by what authority it happens.
Forgiveness of future sins is not automatic. The Bible says that we must repent of our sins. Why do you keep saying that the Bible is wrong?
If you are meditating on the scriptures and come up with a meaning that is opposite to the plain text of the scriptures, then you have a spirit of error whispering to you. God is not a God of confusion.
And if you are relying on men to teach you, then you really need to go back to basics. Andrew Wommack is a heretic. He does not have the authority to teach anything, and this is an even bigger problem when he teaches things that contradict the Word of God.
I have shown you what I believe from the Bible. Show me from the Bible where you think I am wrong, but stop going into your frustrated mode. If you can't explain what you mean without using Wommack or YouTube, then there is something wrong. You do not have to speak eloquently. God promised to give the words for your own defence if you need them. But, of course, this only works if you are in the right.
I am open to the truth. I always have been. If I found my Church teaching error, I would not be there. But the fact remains that my Church is able to explain her position from the scriptures and historical context. You have not been able to do this.
If you want people to have the Bible as their final authority, you can't be preaching special knowledge that comes from outside the scriptures. Deeper meanings do not change the original meaning.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
The Bible says that PAST sins are forgiven and that new sins are forgiven once they are remedied in accordance with the scriptures. Why do you insist on arguing against the Bible?
Is the Bible not even slightly authoritative to you?
And why blame Satan for your own refusal to accept what is plainly written in the scriptures?
NO! all sins were forgiven 2000 years ago, so it is us who must use our faith to recieve that forgiven of sins done for us 3000 year ago.
Do you think everytime you sin God is doing something new again to get those sins forgiven?
You admit Jesus only died once for all times, so now Jesus is sitting back on the mercy seat and waiting on us to use our faith in what we been forgiven of and that is why past , present and all future sins were forgiven unless you think Jesus has to go back on the cross and shed blood again like the OT traditions was done!
That is why He did all He can do fgr us on the cross and that is finished even the forgiveness of all sins past , present and future sins!
one love
If what you say is true, then why do we need to repent ever. Should not all sins be automatically forgiven and everyone be saved?
The debt is paid for all time. Christ's death on the cross provides unlimited credit for our account - but we need to make a withdrawal.
We make a big withdrawal when we are born again - all past sins are paid for and washed away. I gave you the quote - PAST sins, as in previously committed sins are washed away.
If we sin again after coming to Christ, when we have created new debt. But we have credit to cover that debt, all we need to do is make another withdrawal to cover that new debt. It is available to us, all we need to do is use it.
1 John 1:9 and James 5:14-15 shows that it is possible for born again Christians to have unforgiven sins. If these sins had been automatically forgiven like you claim then both of these passages would be a lie.
2 Corinthians 7:1 1Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
They already have the promises, therefore they have been born again already - which makes sense since Paul was writing to born again Christians. And yet here AGAIN Paul is saying that we must cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit.
We must do something. The Bible tells us what. I gave you the passages that say the what, and I have given you other passages that explain how this is possible and by what authority it happens.
Forgiveness of future sins is not automatic. The Bible says that we must repent of our sins. Why do you keep saying that the Bible is wrong?
If you are meditating on the scriptures and come up with a meaning that is opposite to the plain text of the scriptures, then you have a spirit of error whispering to you. God is not a God of confusion.
And if you are relying on men to teach you, then you really need to go back to basics. Andrew Wommack is a heretic. He does not have the authority to teach anything, and this is an even bigger problem when he teaches things that contradict the Word of God.
I have shown you what I believe from the Bible. Show me from the Bible where you think I am wrong, but stop going into your frustrated mode. If you can't explain what you mean without using Wommack or YouTube, then there is something wrong. You do not have to speak eloquently. God promised to give the words for your own defence if you need them. But, of course, this only works if you are in the right.
I am open to the truth. I always have been. If I found my Church teaching error, I would not be there. But the fact remains that my Church is able to explain her position from the scriptures and historical context. You have not been able to do this.
If you want people to have the Bible as their final authority, you can't be preaching special knowledge that comes from outside the scriptures. Deeper meanings do not change the original meaning.
What you are explaining here is that a christian must get born again and again everytime they sin, and Hebrews 10 say that is impossible!
Another thing you must know is that when we came to Christ all our sins were cast as far as the east and no more remember like you never done those sins before God.
So now you are born again and do a sin again and maybe the same sin you think more God will hate us and forsake us and have less mercy to us because we are saved??
That would mean a sinner has a better gospel and more love given to them than we born again people or we as God children is being more hated by God.
Even God still had a relationship with cain the first murderer, and still loved him even to the point that not no one can kill him niether did God kill him for what he did to hius own brother and still talk to him face to face!
Are you saying God is a changing God like the mormons teaches this philosophy??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
Your understanding of God finished work is so backwards that I have to ask this question:
What is the meaning to you and your catholic church of the meaning (uncondition love)???
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
What you are explaining here is that a christian must get born again and again everytime they sin, and Hebrews 10 say that is impossible!
NO. I have said many times that we can only be born again ONCE. Read what I wrote again.
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Another thing you must know is that when we came to Christ all our sins were cast as far as the east and no more remember like you never done those sins before God.
That is what men teach, but not what the Bible teaches. Your past sins are forgiven and forgotten when you come to Christ. Those sins will NEVER be held against you, not even if you rejected Christ.
If your interpretation were correct, the Bible would be in error in so many places, but even stranger would be that no one could go to Hell. If EVERY sin was automatically forgiven including all future sins, then even the sin of rejecting Jesus is already forgiven. After all, there have been many converts who at one time rejected Jesus who are now saved so that sin is forgivable.
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So now you are born again and do a sin again and maybe the same sin you think more God will hate us and forsake us and have less mercy to us because we are saved??
I explained this already. Jesus will forgive as often as we come to Him seeking forgivness. Why is this so hard for you? Is God not a Good Father? Is He an absentee father that doesn't care or an ogre that you are afraid to approach?
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That would mean a sinner has a better gospel and more love given to them than we born again people or we as God children is being more hated by God.
Jesus came to save sinners. But no, someone who is not born again has it worse than us. We have all the graces and the gifts.
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Even God still had a relationship with cain the first murderer, and still loved him even to the point that not no one can kill him niether did God kill him for what he did to hius own brother and still talk to him face to face!
God never stops loving us. No matter what. But that does not mean we can sin with impunity.
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Are you saying God is a changing God like the mormons teaches this philosophy??
God never changes. Why do you think that He has changed. Same God from the OT still reigns.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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