spirit ,soul, and body!
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I have taught on this truth and teaching so many times and I find this is not taught in many churches and would like to get others views on this important topic!I give a very good example and teaching example with curtains explaning about our born again spirits , and how more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Stop treating the Bible like a deck of cards where you can use one verse to knock out other verses.
I gave you the verse that STATES VERY CLEARLY AND WITHOUT ANY AMBIGUITY that future sins are not automatically forgiven. I followed up that verse with numerous verse that show very clearly that sins were not forgiven until they were properly repented of.
You must reconcile all of these verses, not just ignore what you don't like.
Then with your philosophy , that would mean Jesus would have to be crucified again on a cross and we will have to get saved over and over again to get repentance manifested or a sacrafice done everytime you sin!
I showed where Hebrew 10 mention this concept to be the same as sacraficing animals just you are changing cars!
one love
Asking Jesus to forgive us of our personal sin, does not re-crucify Chirst.
He died because He said that He could forgive us of our sin.
That was blasphemy for a Jew to "take" that power from God the Father. The Jewish hierarchy crucified Him because He said He was God and that He had the power to forgive sin.
When Jesus Resurrected, when He appeared to the Apostles and to the disciples, when He and the Father sent the Holy Spirit to His Church, He proved that He was God.
And that He alone was the intercessor between humanity and God the Father for the forgiveness of our sins.
It is our duty as Christians, to be introspective of our sin nature and to seek the Healer's grace through His Church.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 05/18/2012 08:00:27
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by jdubya
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
This passage tells me that growing in holiness in the faith (sanctification) is essential for salvation.
The one being sanctified shows a true experiential knowledge of Jesus.
The one being sanctified is useful and fruitful.
The one being sanctified can confirm his/her calling and being chosen by the Lord
The one being sanctified, when they practice these virtures will never stumble.
The one being sanctified will have their entry into the eternal kingdom abundantly supplied for.
The one who lacks these qualities is blind.
The one who lacks these qualities does not have a full experiential knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The one who lacks these qualities has no appreciation for and takes for granted, the purification from old (past) sins (baptism).
The one who lacks these qualities is useless and unfruitful.
The one who lacks these qualities can not have assurance that they were called and chosen.
The one who lacks these qualities will not have their entrance into the eternal kingdom supplied for abundantly.
Not a done deal unless sanctification follows the cleansing of past sins. As Hebrews says, "without holiness, no one will see the Lord".
That is why we need a Jesus and we who are dirty filthy poop rag must stay out the way of Jesus perfection of holyness, and justification, and we just recieve that free gift from Christ Jesus so we can go and stand boldly before the throne of God look and being like Jesus is now in Heaven before God in our born again spirit!
jdubya, Do you not think Jesus is not pure enough for heaven, and not Holy and sanctified enough for heaven??
If you same He is , then so are we even in this world jdubya, that the good news of the gospel!
1Jo:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1Jo:4:17: Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Do you dwell in the love of God J???
Do you believe the bible jdubya?
IF you say yes, then the bible said you are made perfect past tence, and a done deal through Jesus Christ perfection not your own, and it is not a process, unless the bible said getting made perfect or a renewal of perfect then you might be right , but the bible said so clear you need a blind person to help you not see this truth jdubya!
Really jdubya you need to come join me and Sister FAITH in the discussion on Romans so you can drink the milk of the truth starting first from kindergarden, or nursery school, so one day you will have power to when getting out of high school one day through the renewal of your religious minds!
one love
Evan, the reason I brought up this passage is for another reference that shows that it was our former sins that were purified. A specific reference to old sins. Never a mention of future sins in scripture. It says that those who are not growing in holiness are 'oblivious ones closing their eyes' in regards to that gift.
It is highly doubtful that Peter is referring to the cross and resurrection, but instead to the new birth as in Acts 2:38 where Peter says repent and be baptized unto the forgiveness of sins.
The 'filthy rags' reference is one of the most abused metaphors in scripture. Have you ever heard that a text without a context is a pretext. This refers to apostate Jerusalem. They were in rebellion against God. Of coure their righteousness without God was like filthy rags. Even in the NT, Jesus says you can do nothing without Him. In 2Peter 1, Peter is referring to baptized Christians who have Christ. Never once does he refer to their sanctification as anything resembling filthy rags. In fact, he commands and exhorts them to holiness and says this how we come to a full experiential knowledge of Jesus Christ.
This is the difference Evan. We are a new creature in Christ when we are born anew. The grace of God is infused into our souls and we can overcome sin. That is the good news, that God loved us enough to equip us with all we need to grow in holiness and overcome sin and to provide grace also when we stumble. This is what the blood of Jesus accomplished for us.
The one who loves God hates sin, therefore what could be a greater gift than to help us overcome that which we could not do without God and without the cross and without grace. That is, if one really hates sin instead of paying lipservice and treats sin as if it isn't an issue anymore.
The alternative is not really such good news. It says that we are beyond reclamation and God just had to label us as righteous and let us remain wallowing in the mire. It's almost like the difference between welfare and being given the tools to find a job.
I certainly believe in the bible. Why do you think I quoted 2Peter? Is this passage not clear to you? Do you take Peter seriously? Are you growing in holiness that you may have a full experiential knowledge of Jesus and abundantly supplied entrance into the eternal kingdom of God?
Do you take the exhortations in every Gospel and epistle of the NT seriously?
Already perfect?
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Again, repentance from sin and faith toward God is foundational and perfection is the goal. One can hardly be perfect when that is the goal. If repentance from sin is foundational, then how can it be said that sin hasn't been an issue after the cross?
Faith is doing just fine in showing from Romans alone how poorly reasoned your theology is.
Sorry, I don't know what you are trying to do with those two verses in 1John. Love and trust in God and His love for me is my rock. It's the root of all I ever hope to be IN HIM.
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, are you serious.
Do you not see what you just did? You highlighted words and removed the intervening words to create an entirely different sentence.
You REWROTE the Word of God to create a whole new meaning that was never there.
Don't.
Quote Evangelist:
I just highlighted the origanal texts, I didn't add anything to it or took anything away like JW do with the word of God like John 1:1 making Jesus like another God not to be worshiped or to be some angel!
Peter warns of those who twist the scriptures to their own destruction. That is what you are doing. Don't.
How can you just rip up the Word of God to make your own doctrines like that.
Quote Evangelist:
That is why I ask to gve your view on what I bold in colors which I didn't get any responce or even any negative part of what I shown the key points to see the truth of the scripture in what Paul is teaching spirit led christiáns!
I gave you several scriptures that showed that people still needed to repent of their sins AFTER coming to Christ. I proved from the Bible that future sins are NOT automatically forgiven and were still in need of repentance and forgiveness and showed how they could be forgiven.
Quote Evangelist:
I do agree every person must repent when they get born again which is a done deal, put you can't and didn't show me in the bible where every single sin is to be put on the sacrafice of Christ, and if this was true Christ would have to die again and again to get those indivisual sins forgive like mention the same way in Hebrews 10, year after year like the old testament people had to do and did, but we don't do that under the new covernant and that why Hebrew said Jesus died once for all time, and for all humans!
What you are attempting to do here is so wrong on so many levels that I am shocked.
Quote Evangelist_
I know this is scriptural to be shocking to you;
1Co:2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The phrase "sins that are past" refers to previously committed sins. Plain and simple. You cannot just leapfrog over words and phrases that do not appeal to you.
HATH - Jesus did something. What HE did is a done deal. HE died on the cross and that deposited payment for all our sins. That part is done. He does not need to die again. But this does not get automatically applied to anyone. Acts 2:38 and many other verses prove that so stop trying to pretent otherwise.
Quote Rvangelist:
The better good news is not to stop there but to know He died for the whole human race John 3:16 the whole world sinners included, that is why sinner go to hell with a full payment forgiven of thier sins deposited to them , only some don't recieve it and that is why they are enemies of the cross and go to hell!
TO DECLARE, yes, Jesus is Righteous. It has been declared and I believe it. And through Him, those of us who are IN CHRIST (as discussed in John 15) are also righteous because of Him. Do not make this into more than what is said.
Quote evangelist:
So if you believe this then you are no more a sinner even though you may do sinful thing with your mind and body , but before God in your spirit of Christ you are righteuos and pure, justified because it is delared unto you as a gifet AMEN!
PAST - previous. IN SPECIFIC REFERENCE TO SINS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY COMMITTED. Look it up. Not just the word but the whole phrase. Check out a variety of translations, this does not mean that our future sins are behind us. It means that sins that we have committed will be forgiven under the prescribed circumstances given to us in the Bible. Again, Acts 2:38 shows that this is NOT automatic.
Quote Evangelist:
How do you know if the word past is meaning old sins or past meaning pass through to going by somebody or gone through someone?
FOREBEARANCE because of God's choosing to restrain Himself and show tolerance for what we have done.
Amen to your understanding of forebearance and this is a step into the knowledge of our grace toward us and our pure and righteous spirits which is born again and is the exact spirit of Christ which can not sin and does'T unless you think Jesus has sinned!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Stop treating the Bible like a deck of cards where you can use one verse to knock out other verses.
I gave you the verse that STATES VERY CLEARLY AND WITHOUT ANY AMBIGUITY that future sins are not automatically forgiven. I followed up that verse with numerous verse that show very clearly that sins were not forgiven until they were properly repented of.
You must reconcile all of these verses, not just ignore what you don't like.
Then with your philosophy , that would mean Jesus would have to be crucified again on a cross and we will have to get saved over and over again to get repentance manifested or a sacrafice done everytime you sin!
I showed where Hebrew 10 mention this concept to be the same as sacraficing animals just you are changing cars!
one love
Asking Jesus to forgive us of our personal sin, does not re-crucify Chirst.
He died because He said that He could forgive us of our sin.
That was blasphemy for a Jew to "take" that power from God the Father. The Jewish hierarchy crucified Him because He said He was God and that He had the power to forgive sin.
When Jesus Resurrected, when He appeared to the Apostles and to the disciples, when He and the Father sent the Holy Spirit to His Church, He proved that He was God.
And that He alone was the intercessor between humanity and God the Father for the forgiveness of our sins.
It is our duty as Christians, to be introspective of our sin nature and to seek the Healer's grace through His Church.
If you think you are not re crucifying Jesus again and again then explain how you get your sins forgiven after you been born again and all your past sins were forgiven?
If Jesus blood was only once for all time given 2000 years ago how do you get new blood of Jesus to wash away your present sins you do or any sins after His death??
When you repent what makes that sin be wash away?
Also are you saying Jesus is treying to get our sins forgiven and hasn't done a complete job in which I bold in red??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by jdubya
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by jdubya
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
This passage tells me that growing in holiness in the faith (sanctification) is essential for salvation.
The one being sanctified shows a true experiential knowledge of Jesus.
The one being sanctified is useful and fruitful.
The one being sanctified can confirm his/her calling and being chosen by the Lord
The one being sanctified, when they practice these virtures will never stumble.
The one being sanctified will have their entry into the eternal kingdom abundantly supplied for.
The one who lacks these qualities is blind.
The one who lacks these qualities does not have a full experiential knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The one who lacks these qualities has no appreciation for and takes for granted, the purification from old (past) sins (baptism).
The one who lacks these qualities is useless and unfruitful.
The one who lacks these qualities can not have assurance that they were called and chosen.
The one who lacks these qualities will not have their entrance into the eternal kingdom supplied for abundantly.
Not a done deal unless sanctification follows the cleansing of past sins. As Hebrews says, "without holiness, no one will see the Lord".
That is why we need a Jesus and we who are dirty filthy poop rag must stay out the way of Jesus perfection of holyness, and justification, and we just recieve that free gift from Christ Jesus so we can go and stand boldly before the throne of God look and being like Jesus is now in Heaven before God in our born again spirit!
jdubya, Do you not think Jesus is not pure enough for heaven, and not Holy and sanctified enough for heaven??
If you same He is , then so are we even in this world jdubya, that the good news of the gospel!
1Jo:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1Jo:4:17: Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Do you dwell in the love of God J???
Do you believe the bible jdubya?
IF you say yes, then the bible said you are made perfect past tence, and a done deal through Jesus Christ perfection not your own, and it is not a process, unless the bible said getting made perfect or a renewal of perfect then you might be right , but the bible said so clear you need a blind person to help you not see this truth jdubya!
Really jdubya you need to come join me and Sister FAITH in the discussion on Romans so you can drink the milk of the truth starting first from kindergarden, or nursery school, so one day you will have power to when getting out of high school one day through the renewal of your religious minds!
one love
Evan, the reason I brought up this passage is for another reference that shows that it was our former sins that were purified. A specific reference to old sins. Never a mention of future sins in scripture. It says that those who are not growing in holiness are 'oblivious ones closing their eyes' in regards to that gift.
It is highly doubtful that Peter is referring to the cross and resurrection, but instead to the new birth as in Acts 2:38 where Peter says repent and be baptized unto the forgiveness of sins.
The 'filthy rags' reference is one of the most abused metaphors in scripture. Have you ever heard that a text without a context is a pretext. This refers to apostate Jerusalem. They were in rebellion against God. Of coure their righteousness without God was like filthy rags. Even in the NT, Jesus says you can do nothing without Him. In 2Peter 1, Peter is referring to baptized Christians who have Christ. Never once does he refer to their sanctification as anything resembling filthy rags. In fact, he commands and exhorts them to holiness and says this how we come to a full experiential knowledge of Jesus Christ.
This is the difference Evan. We are a new creature in Christ when we are born anew. The grace of God is infused into our souls and we can overcome sin. That is the good news, that God loved us enough to equip us with all we need to grow in holiness and overcome sin and to provide grace also when we stumble. This is what the blood of Jesus accomplished for us.
The one who loves God hates sin, therefore what could be a greater gift than to help us overcome that which we could not do without God and without the cross and without grace. That is, if one really hates sin instead of paying lipservice and treats sin as if it isn't an issue anymore.
The alternative is not really such good news. It says that we are beyond reclamation and God just had to label us as righteous and let us remain wallowing in the mire. It's almost like the difference between welfare and being given the tools to find a job.
I certainly believe in the bible. Why do you think I quoted 2Peter? Is this passage not clear to you? Do you take Peter seriously? Are you growing in holiness that you may have a full experiential knowledge of Jesus and abundantly supplied entrance into the eternal kingdom of God?
Do you take the exhortations in every Gospel and epistle of the NT seriously?
Already perfect?
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Again, repentance from sin and faith toward God is foundational and perfection is the goal. One can hardly be perfect when that is the goal. If repentance from sin is foundational, then how can it be said that sin hasn't been an issue after the cross?
Faith is doing just fine in showing from Romans alone how poorly reasoned your theology is.
Sorry, I don't know what you are trying to do with those two verses in 1John. Love and trust in God and His love for me is my rock. It's the root of all I ever hope to be IN HIM.
Show me in the bible where you nust put every sin you do under the blood over and over again and repent everytime you do singular sins!
I am not talking about wheb we first get saved and must repent of all our pasts sins and getting baptized m I am talking about after we get born again we must put every sin in repentance and bring them before God to get forgiven every single one please can you biblcally show me that chapter and verse
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Evangelist, the natural man thinks that sin is not an issue.
The natural man tells himself that he can do whatever he wants.
The natural man sins because he thinks it doesn't matter.
According to Paul, the sign that tells us that God is IN us, is that we feel fear and temble at the thought of sin. The spiritual man shudders at the mere thought of doing anything to offend God.
I gave you numerous verses showing that born again Christians got their sins forgiven after being born again.
How can sins still be forgiven if they have already been forgiven?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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And, yes, you did mentally rearrange portions of the text when you bolded the individual words.
The passage explicity says that previously committed sins are forgiven. You said that all our sins are past, done and forgiven.
Well, the verse does not say that. Not in any translation and not in the Greek. You swapped out the original statement that is provable through the rest of the Scriptures, and replaced it with a phrasing that fits your manmade theology and contradicts the rest of scripture.
Romans 3:25 says that our past sins are forgiven. It does not say that our future sins are behind us. There is no way, that this verse can be properly rendered to say what you keep trying to make it say.
1 John 1:8-10 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
We are sinners. If we say otherwise, we are liars too.
But we can be forgiven as often as we confess our sins.
Stop making excuses. Regardless of what heresies were floating around at the time, the recipients of this letter were born again Christian. So clearly, the message is that born again Christians can be forgiven when they confess and this is NOT automatic.
He says US and WE, not YOU, and that shows that John is the same as the people he is writing to. All Christian believers. He was NOT writing to pagans or unbelievers.
James 5:14-16 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
James was not writing to pagans or unbelievers. Here he clearly shows again that sins are not automatically forgiven, but assures us that they can be forgiven and now.
"that ye may be healed" Ye are not healed if you won't follow the prescription.
The Natural Man walks after the flesh. He yields to his fallen nature.
But we are spiritual, and that means that we have the grace to resist our fallen nature and can overcome sin. And if we stumble, we have recourse to God's mercy, but won't help us if we resist what was given to us.
You are still playing the Bible like a deck of cards. And because of this you are creating unnecessary contradictions and forcing the Scriptures to say things that they just don't.
Let go of your old man. You don't need him anymore.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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James 1:22-24
King James Version (KJV)
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Which is seconded by Peter:
2Pet2:9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, the natural man thinks that sin is not an issue.
The natural man tells himself that he can do whatever he wants.
The natural man sins because he thinks it doesn't matter.
According to Paul, the sign that tells us that God is IN us, is that we feel fear and temble at the thought of sin. The spiritual man shudders at the mere thought of doing anything to offend God.
I gave you numerous verses showing that born again Christians got their sins forgiven after being born again.
How can sins still be forgiven if they have already been forgiven?
This is not in effect until you recieve and believe they are forgiven 2000 years agao that the too good news of the Christian gospel!
It might not be a catholic gospel but that the whole done deal, and that is why I am not sin conscious, and not under condemnation Rom 8:1.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Member since 11/17/2007
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Evangelist, I have been going by the Bible alone with our discussions. You are preaching a different gospel than what is found in the Bible.
The Natural Man thinks that sinning is fun and without consequence. That is a fact.
You seem to think that the natural man is the believers who frets about his salvation. Why? Paul said that this is EXACTLY what born again Christians should be doing.
You keep saying that our future sins are automatically forgiven and I have given you passages that say that is not true. That they can certainly be forgiven, but this is not automatic, it requires our repentance.
Jesus died and rose nearly 2000 years ago, but you and I were not there, so this is not just a past event. Jesus is outside of time, and what He did is available to all future generations as well as all past generations, BUT, this is not a one shot "done deal". The Bible says NO.
I accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ. No other gospel matters. You have consistantly refused His Gospel and only accept bits of what you think Paul taught. You cannot reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ and expect me to join you.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
And, yes, you did mentally rearrange portions of the text when you bolded the individual words.
Quote Evangelist:
I did that so you won't have any excuse you didn't see a word or text to throw off the truth and twist the word of God!
I deal with alot of JW and they love jumping over word, until I highlight a word or text and the religious demons try to run to another verse or topic to not be exposed in thier errors!
I am still suprise no one didn't say what I bold in color was a lie which was clearly shown word for word in Romans 5!
I still want to get to romans 6 which will back up everything I preach about the christian gospel and how we should not be sin conscious and all our future sins is forgiven already even after we got born again.
The passage explicity says that previously committed sins are forgiven. You said that all our sins are past, done and forgiven.
Quote AMEN!
Well, the verse does not say that. Not in any translation and not in the Greek. You swapped out the original statement that is provable through the rest of the Scriptures, and replaced it with a phrasing that fits your manmade theology and contradicts the rest of scripture.
Quote Evangelist:
what do you mean by agreeing with something with fits my teaching?
Can you show me where that verse fits what I am evangelizing??
Romans 3:25 says that our past sins are forgiven. It does not say that our future sins are behind us. There is no way, that this verse can be properly rendered to say what you keep trying to make it say.
Quote Evangelist:
Did Jesus die once for all times and all people and is future a (time)??
1 John 1:8-10 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Quote EVangelist:
Yes a sinner need to do this when getting born again, and also in awareness of our mind and body we beed to close the door of satan on our mind and body to expose those sins if remembered to get our mind renewed in who we really are in Christ in our born again spirits!
We are sinners. If we say otherwise, we are liars too.
Quote Evangelist:
If you think you are still a sinner , then you need to get saved and born again, and to say you are a believer and a christian is true what you are saying that you are a liar and sinners and liars go to hell so get saved and be the righteousness of God and not still a sinner in any way!
But we can be forgiven as often as we confess our sins.
Stop making excuses. Regardless of what heresies were floating around at the time, the recipients of this letter were born again Christian. So clearly, the message is that born again Christians can be forgiven when they confess and this is NOT automatic.
He says US and WE, not YOU, and that shows that John is the same as the people he is writing to. All Christian believers. He was NOT writing to pagans or unbelievers.
Quote Evangelist:
what part of us or we is getting forgiven of sins, because our spirit can not sin, but our mind and body does sin!
1Jo:3:9: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
James 5:14-16 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
James was not writing to pagans or unbelievers. Here he clearly shows again that sins are not automatically forgiven, but assures us that they can be forgiven and now.
Quote Evangelist_
Read the text again, you are jumping over words , and this why I need to highlight the scriptures like a kindergarden teacher so you can get the truth pass your carnal mind!
Notice James is talking about forgiveness of each other, or one to another and that is why a person is forgiven you not say God is forgiving you!
"that ye may be healed" Ye are not healed if you won't follow the prescription.
The Natural Man walks after the flesh. He yields to his fallen nature.
But we are spiritual, and that means that we have the grace to resist our fallen nature and can overcome sin. And if we stumble, we have recourse to God's mercy, but won't help us if we resist what was given to us.
You are still playing the Bible like a deck of cards. And because of this you are creating unnecessary contradictions and forcing the Scriptures to say things that they just don't.
Let go of your old man. You don't need him anymore.
I did , you need to stop being a sinner and get saved or claim your righteousness and justification, and stop being sin conscious present and future conscience of your sins!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
Heb:10:16: This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb:10:17: And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
When will God do this in our hearts everytime when we repent of a new sin, and when will God forget those sins everytime He goes and put a law in our mind, then God sort of recieve old timer and forgets our sins?
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
James 1:22-24
King James Version (KJV)
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Is this scripture for our mind and body or for our pure and sanctified righteous ,justified born again holy spirits??
Has also these scriptures has to do with any of our five senses??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
What part of "doers of the word" do you not understand? We DO with all of our body, mind, soul, spirit, every sense we have.
We are to be doers and not just hearers of the word. Do you hear with your spirit or your body? Does your spirit have ears?
Answer. Absolutely. 100% YES.
Your spirit has ears and eyes and hands and feet. A heart, lungs, skin and flesh.
Your spirit IS YOU. Not some separate thing that is completely unconnected to your body.
Your spirit hears with YOUR ears. Sees with YOUR eyes. Touches with your fingers. And sins with your flesh and blood body.
Your spirit DOES with your BODY. That is the only way it can DO anything. DO. What are we to DO - good works.
The Bible explicitly statest that its purpose IS to prepare us for every good work - feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc. This is what your spirit does through your flesh.
And to those verses you highlighted - I believe every single word in the order and straight forward meaning as presented in the scriptures. You are the one who tries to swap them around to create a different meaning that appeals to the flesh.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
Edited by Faith_at_Large on 05/20/2012 15:04:23
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