spirit ,soul, and body!

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Originally posted by evangelist

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Venial sin. Minor sin. sin that is not unto death.

Sin is not speaking of a single sin, but of a category of sin. This is not a word that can be used in just one way. Like "fish" it can mean one fish or hundreds of fish. But when speaking of more than one species of fish, it becomes "fishes". So too with sin.

Quote Evangelist:
AMEN! I agree and if you start believeing what you wrote above then we would have a true and better lesson on romans 6 about using the word (baptism) This is not a word that can be used in just one way. Like "fish" it can mean one fish or hundreds of fish. But when speaking of more than one species of fish,there are more baptism as such, like a blood baptism, water baptism, spiritual baptism, and even mormons have a baptism for the dead.

The Bible shows lots of baptisms, but only ONE Christian Baptism. And that one includes BOTH Water AND Spirit.

Paul stated absolutely that there is ONE BAPTISM for the ONE LORD and ONE FAITH. Not three. Jesus did not come to teach dead works. If you think that water baptism does not do EVERYTHING I say it does, then you have NO BUSINESS baptizing anyone with water and if you ever baptize with water or teach that anyone should baptize with water, then you are a hypocrite.

There is only one Christian baptism. Any baptism that is not that one baptism is a dead work and should NOT under ANY circumstances by done by Christians under penalty of being UNDER the LAW.

If you are doing dead works that you think are part of the OT Law, then you are bound to keep the whole of the Law.

No sin is good. We should not be thinking that it is ever OK to sin even a little sin. But, only mortal sin kills. Mortal sin is the sin that kills. Again, this is a category of sin, not a single sin.

Quote Evangelist:
That is a man made religious scale you are going by and not a Goldly law!

No. THAT is from the INSPIRED Word of GOD.

You can't base sins we do on a God scale period!

Says who? The Bible gives us the scale, but God is the Judge. Not all sin kills, but some sin does.

The sin which is singular to death is the one sin of renouncing Jesus or rejecting Him, and that is why muder, adultery doesn't realy kill our real you which is the born again spirit being!

So you actually believe that of all the sins there is only one sin that WON'T send you to Hell? Which single sin of all the sins WON'T send you to Hell?

And Do you realize that by turning sin into a single sin instead of single category, you have made a paradox?

If only one single sin, period, does not kill, then ALL the rest Kill. Sorry sunsine, but it just can't work that way. You have created an unresolvable paradox. Please restate your position so that there is no paradox. There cannot be only ONE single sin that kills, because then all others would not kill, but the passage also says that there is a sin that does not kill - if the first is singular, then so is the second reference.

Here is another better greek translation on 1 John 5 which might be easier for you to see what John is saying in which a religious spirit is trying to twist!

16 If you see a Christian brother or sister[d] sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life. But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it. 17 All wicked actions are sin, but not every sin leads to death.

That translation may appeal to you, but it is a little misleading and it is NOT a better translation from the Greek. In the received text the first part includes the phrase "sinning a sin" not just "sinning in a way..."

The next verse is as follows:

All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

You have created a paradox, if you assume that these are both solitary sins and not categories of sin. The wording does not allow for your twist on the scriptures.


This is why John put the sin in category to show the single sin or the IT, or one sin of renouncing or rejecting Jesus is the one sin to death!

Except that John didn't. You did. The text does not allow for that interpretation unless you change it. That is not a good idea. I don't care how much you like a translator or a pastor, NO ONE on earth has the authority to edit the Word of God. Not even the Pope would dare to do that.

The other sins we do don't kill the soul or bring death as sending us to a death hell, because we as His children are still adopted children in His book of Life, a sinner or a apostate person who was mature and renounce Jesus is dead, and we can't even pray them back to salvation they are foever last!

Well, you are part right. John covers off why non-mortal sins don't send us to Hell (you seem to overlook that). And yes, this is because of what Jesus did.

And you are right in that we can't ever hope to pay back what Christ did us. Jesus paid our debt. All we have to do is repent. And for minor sins, the Church is able to cover them off - not to pay the debt (only Christ does that), but to help us in the Covenant.

For a sin to be mortal, we have to know that it is serious. I.e. God said NO to specific sins that are repeated throughout the NT. If something gets repeated over and over and over again - that is serious.

We have to commit a mortal sin in thought, word or deed, or as you indicated before, refuse to do something we KNOW that we ought to do.

A fleeting thought that we dismiss is not a sin.

And we have to have full consent of the will. The devil can't make us do it and have it count against us. If someone is an alcoholic they might have a mitigating factor, same with someone with a mental condition. Circumstances can play a part. God is not going to judge us for what we could not control, but for what we can.

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The bible say ALL sins is evil and filthy and that means no measurement before our Holy Father God who is all pure and Holy!
NOTHING unclean big or small unclean can stand before God, and that hwy we need a Jesus who can and did toward us and for us!

Amen, but not all sin kills. Stop putting gradients of credibility on the Inspired Word of God.

Knowing this truth will even help a person not to sin out of this tooogood news which we callthe gospel in which religion and many churchy renoouce and reject!

one love

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

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Originally posted by evangelist

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Venial sin. Minor sin. sin that is not unto death.

Sin is not speaking of a single sin, but of a category of sin. This is not a word that can be used in just one way. Like "fish" it can mean one fish or hundreds of fish. But when speaking of more than one species of fish, it becomes "fishes". So too with sin.

Quote Evangelist:
AMEN! I agree and if you start believeing what you wrote above then we would have a true and better lesson on romans 6 about using the word (baptism) This is not a word that can be used in just one way. Like "fish" it can mean one fish or hundreds of fish. But when speaking of more than one species of fish,there are more baptism as such, like a blood baptism, water baptism, spiritual baptism, and even mormons have a baptism for the dead.

The Bible shows lots of baptisms, but only ONE Christian Baptism. And that one includes BOTH Water AND Spirit.

Paul stated absolutely that there is ONE BAPTISM for the ONE LORD and ONE FAITH. Not three. Jesus did not come to teach dead works. If you think that water baptism does not do EVERYTHING I say it does, then you have NO BUSINESS baptizing anyone with water and if you ever baptize with water or teach that anyone should baptize with water, then you are a hypocrite.

There is only one Christian baptism. Any baptism that is not that one baptism is a dead work and should NOT under ANY circumstances by done by Christians under penalty of being UNDER the LAW.

If you are doing dead works that you think are part of the OT Law, then you are bound to keep the whole of the Law.

No sin is good. We should not be thinking that it is ever OK to sin even a little sin. But, only mortal sin kills. Mortal sin is the sin that kills. Again, this is a category of sin, not a single sin.

Quote Evangelist:
That is a man made religious scale you are going by and not a Goldly law!

No. THAT is from the INSPIRED Word of GOD.

You can't base sins we do on a God scale period!

Says who? The Bible gives us the scale, but God is the Judge. Not all sin kills, but some sin does.

The sin which is singular to death is the one sin of renouncing Jesus or rejecting Him, and that is why muder, adultery doesn't realy kill our real you which is the born again spirit being!

So you actually believe that of all the sins there is only one sin that WON'T send you to Hell? Which single sin of all the sins WON'T send you to Hell?

And Do you realize that by turning sin into a single sin instead of single category, you have made a paradox?

If only one single sin, period, does not kill, then ALL the rest Kill. Sorry sunsine, but it just can't work that way. You have created an unresolvable paradox. Please restate your position so that there is no paradox. There cannot be only ONE single sin that kills, because then all others would not kill, but the passage also says that there is a sin that does not kill - if the first is singular, then so is the second reference.

Here is another better greek translation on 1 John 5 which might be easier for you to see what John is saying in which a religious spirit is trying to twist!

16 If you see a Christian brother or sister[d] sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life. But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it. 17 All wicked actions are sin, but not every sin leads to death.

That translation may appeal to you, but it is a little misleading and it is NOT a better translation from the Greek. In the received text the first part includes the phrase "sinning a sin" not just "sinning in a way..."

The next verse is as follows:

All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

You have created a paradox, if you assume that these are both solitary sins and not categories of sin. The wording does not allow for your twist on the scriptures.


This is why John put the sin in category to show the single sin or the IT, or one sin of renouncing or rejecting Jesus is the one sin to death!

Except that John didn't. You did. The text does not allow for that interpretation unless you change it. That is not a good idea. I don't care how much you like a translator or a pastor, NO ONE on earth has the authority to edit the Word of God. Not even the Pope would dare to do that.

The other sins we do don't kill the soul or bring death as sending us to a death hell, because we as His children are still adopted children in His book of Life, a sinner or a apostate person who was mature and renounce Jesus is dead, and we can't even pray them back to salvation they are foever last!

Well, you are part right. John covers off why non-mortal sins don't send us to Hell (you seem to overlook that). And yes, this is because of what Jesus did.

And you are right in that we can't ever hope to pay back what Christ did us. Jesus paid our debt. All we have to do is repent. And for minor sins, the Church is able to cover them off - not to pay the debt (only Christ does that), but to help us in the Covenant.

For a sin to be mortal, we have to know that it is serious. I.e. God said NO to specific sins that are repeated throughout the NT. If something gets repeated over and over and over again - that is serious.

We have to commit a mortal sin in thought, word or deed, or as you indicated before, refuse to do something we KNOW that we ought to do.

A fleeting thought that we dismiss is not a sin.

And we have to have full consent of the will. The devil can't make us do it and have it count against us. If someone is an alcoholic they might have a mitigating factor, same with someone with a mental condition. Circumstances can play a part. God is not going to judge us for what we could not control, but for what we can.

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The bible say ALL sins is evil and filthy and that means no measurement before our Holy Father God who is all pure and Holy!
NOTHING unclean big or small unclean can stand before God, and that hwy we need a Jesus who can and did toward us and for us!

Amen, but not all sin kills. Stop putting gradients of credibility on the Inspired Word of God.

Knowing this truth will even help a person not to sin out of this tooogood news which we callthe gospel in which religion and many churchy renoouce and reject!

one love

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No. The weak seek any excuse to not let go of their sins.

Be not deceived...not once did the deception ever include listening to your Elders or obeying the Word of God.

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

You did not have to mention elders. You mentioned "religion" and the only religion you despise is that with organization and authority.

You have already rejected authority except for the authority of self.

I have not not torn anything apart. That is your excuse for not dealing with what I wrote. What? No answer?

I was born again a long time ago. I never have to be born again again. You confuse confession and repentance with being born again. They are required for, but not synonymous with, beng born again.

Born again Christians are called to confess their sins and to repent. There is no repentence if one is not prepared to turn away from the sin they have repented of. And if one has not repented of a sin, they are still IN IT.

We were saved when we were born again. Made perfect. Made righteous.

But if we want to stay that way, we need to LIVE our Faith. The Bible tells us how.

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Originally posted by evangelist

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

You did not have to mention elders. You mentioned "religion" and the only religion you despise is that with organization and authority.

You have already rejected authority except for the authority of self.

I have not not torn anything apart. That is your excuse for not dealing with what I wrote. What? No answer?

I was born again a long time ago. I never have to be born again again. You confuse confession and repentance with being born again. They are required for, but not synonymous with, beng born again.

Born again Christians are called to confess their sins and to repent. There is no repentence if one is not prepared to turn away from the sin they have repented of. And if one has not repented of a sin, they are still IN IT.

We were saved when we were born again. Made perfect. Made righteous.

But if we want to stay that way, we need to LIVE our Faith. The Bible tells us how.

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If you believe what you wrote as being made righteous and made perfect , why do you still call yourself a sinner??
DoN't you see how you are openly contradicting your own self??

I don't go around telling Pentecostals that I am a sinner. I admit to God that I am a sinner because I sometimes sin.

Jesus said that THIS is how we are to pray. There is justification in humility, not in boasting.

And there is no contradiction. I was made righteous and perfect. But to remain that way requires that I live righteously and perfectly. Jesus will help me every step of the way, but I still have to do it. The Bible says so.

I ask you this before and I think I need to ask this again:

What is the meaning of momentary redemption?

That is your term. You define it.

I never ever believed in "momentary redemption". That is a man-made doctrine applied to others out of ignorance, but it has no basis in Catholic teaching.

What is the meaning of eternal redemption?

Also please don't use OSAS in this question because i am not talking about that!

Of course not. OSAS says that nothing we do can lose our salvation. Non-OSAS says that there is.

I believe the latter. The only place that we disagree on that score is what one must do to reject Christ.

Heb:9:12: Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Amen. And he who endures to the END, shall receive it.

Eph:1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph:1:4: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph:1:5: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph:1:6: To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph:1:7: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph:1:8: Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph:1:9: Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph:1:10: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph:1:11: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph:1:12: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph:1:14: Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

peace

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

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Originally posted by evangelist

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

You did not have to mention elders. You mentioned "religion" and the only religion you despise is that with organization and authority.

You have already rejected authority except for the authority of self.

I have not not torn anything apart. That is your excuse for not dealing with what I wrote. What? No answer?

I was born again a long time ago. I never have to be born again again. You confuse confession and repentance with being born again. They are required for, but not synonymous with, beng born again.

Born again Christians are called to confess their sins and to repent. There is no repentence if one is not prepared to turn away from the sin they have repented of. And if one has not repented of a sin, they are still IN IT.

We were saved when we were born again. Made perfect. Made righteous.

But if we want to stay that way, we need to LIVE our Faith. The Bible tells us how.

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If you believe what you wrote as being made righteous and made perfect , why do you still call yourself a sinner??
DoN't you see how you are openly contradicting your own self??

I don't go around telling Pentecostals that I am a sinner. I admit to God that I am a sinner because I sometimes sin.

Jesus said that THIS is how we are to pray. There is justification in humility, not in boasting.

And there is no contradiction. I was made righteous and perfect. But to remain that way requires that I live righteously and perfectly. Jesus will help me every step of the way, but I still have to do it. The Bible says so.

I ask you this before and I think I need to ask this again:

What is the meaning of momentary redemption?

That is your term. You define it.

I never ever believed in "momentary redemption". That is a man-made doctrine applied to others out of ignorance, but it has no basis in Catholic teaching.

What is the meaning of eternal redemption?

Also please don't use OSAS in this question because i am not talking about that!

Of course not. OSAS says that nothing we do can lose our salvation. Non-OSAS says that there is.

I believe the latter. The only place that we disagree on that score is what one must do to reject Christ.

Heb:9:12: Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Amen. And he who endures to the END, shall receive it.

Eph:1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph:1:4: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph:1:5: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph:1:6: To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph:1:7: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph:1:8: Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph:1:9: Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph:1:10: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph:1:11: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph:1:12: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph:1:14: Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

peace

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Amen. Ephesians is all about the Church. The Church IS the mystery. And this epistle was written to those who had moved beyond the milk of the Gospel and readily consuming the meat of it. These understood what you are not quite ready to receive.

The Bible tells us how to continue in God's good Grace. And how to lose it. But you keep skipping over troublesome verses and jumping to the nice stuff given to those who have run the race filled with good works and obedience. You can have all of that too. If you live after their example and stop trying to make loopholes for sin.

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

I am abiding in Christ. I have been part of the Body of Christ for a very long time.

A sinner is one who sins. Unless you have stopped sinning, then you too are a sinner.

But as often as we repent, we are forgiven and saved.

In the Bible, it says that we are saved, we are being save and we will be saved. And throughout, we are told how and why.

Those that do not do what Christ instructed them to do, have built their house on sand and it will fall away.

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Originally posted by evangelist

my born again can't sin and don't sin so that is why I am not a sinner

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

That is not what the Bible says.

WE, body mind and spirit, are saved, are being saved and will be saved if we endure to the end.

You keep saying that your spirit cannot sin, but your body cannot sin if your spirit does not let it. YOU are your spirit, your spirit is YOU. If your spirit is not sinning, then you are not sinning and that means that your body and mind are not sinning.

If your spirit is not in your body making it move, then your body is a lump that does nothing.

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Originally posted by bwellmysoul

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Originally posted by evangelist

my born again can't sin and don't sin so that is why I am not a sinner

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Say what?

Your "born again can't sin"? What world are you living in?

And, you "don't sin"? Get a conscience.

You sin, Evangelist. You pre-assume that your soul is saved, that is, you make this judgement for Christ. That is the sin of presumption.

In addition, when you say that you "don't sin", what you really are saying is that you feign ignorance of your sins. Supposing that Christ will save your protestant soul because you will plead ignorance of the need to "be holy" and "do the Commandments".

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Originally posted by bwellmysoul


You are no longer a sinner because and only because you feign ignorance of your sins.

Quote Evangelist:
NO! I claim my righteousness alone in Christ and His eternal redemption towards me!
The Holy Spirit is telling me I am the righteousness of God so why sin with my mind and body and that keeps me shining and walking in the light for all to see and many want to be!

And you revision Sacred Scripture so that You can call yourself saved (and entice others to follow after your theology) while you attempt to sin without conscience.

Unbelievable. Unbiblical. I have a feeling that St. Paul would take you out and beat you.

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