Indulgences
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What is the catholic,
"Indulgences/satisfaction"??
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g4.. how is it that when i was a non catholic i was able to find out everything i wanted to know about such things, and you and evan find it so hard to do honest research? and by honest research i don't mean going to youtube and finding the latest anticatholic bonehead, and becoming their sycophant. i mean honest research.
let me ask you this. if you got robbed and the robber came back and asked forgiveness would you forgive him? well of course you would right? because your faith tells you to do that. but what about the robber? he has asked forgiveness, but still has the money he stole from you. that money was going to pay for clothes, food, education for your family. the effects of his sin, the loss that your family will have to bear, haven't changed because you forgave. you forgave the sin but the effect of that sin still is causing suffering. so what should that theif do? well he should pay it back and reduce the effect of his sin. right? of course right, otherwise he was not really repentant but just using your faith to excuse his robbery. now what if the theif has already lost the money? it's spent or someone stole it from him, whatever. the point is that he has repented, you forgave him, there is still suffering by those who that money belonged to and the theif would have repaid that money but cannot because it's gone. this is where the idea of an indulgence comes in. surely the theif being true to his repentance will perform works in accordance with it, but the church seeing his repentance and knowing that he cannot really repay what was stolen, may by their own abilities, help the theif in paying back the "temporal effects" of his sin. as such it ultimately is part of christ working in them, the church, and comes indirectly to the theif from the cross. christ has prepared good works, the good works are done to help the ones in need and in the end even the temporal effects of sin, can be reduced and erased. (this happens while on earth or in purgatory and while i know that is a whole different problem for you, i know that you can see the logic behind it.)
the short of it is that indulgences are really a way of saying that in the body of christ, we are all supposed to help one another, either by prayers or helps. everytime you pray you intercede for another person. you pray for your brother who is backslidden or who stumbles or struggles, well your not saving him.. he has already repented and been forgiven, but he still needs your help. right? of course right.
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
g4.. how is it that when i was a non catholic i was able to find out everything i wanted to know about such things, and you and evan find it so hard to do honest research? and by honest research i don't mean going to youtube and finding the latest anticatholic bonehead, and becoming their sycophant. i mean honest research.
let me ask you this. if you got robbed and the robber came back and asked forgiveness would you forgive him? well of course you would right? because your faith tells you to do that. but what about the robber? he has asked forgiveness, but still has the money he stole from you. that money was going to pay for clothes, food, education for your family. the effects of his sin, the loss that your family will have to bear, haven't changed because you forgave. you forgave the sin but the effect of that sin still is causing suffering. so what should that theif do? well he should pay it back and reduce the effect of his sin. right? of course right, otherwise he was not really repentant but just using your faith to excuse his robbery. now what if the theif has already lost the money? it's spent or someone stole it from him, whatever. the point is that he has repented, you forgave him, there is still suffering by those who that money belonged to and the theif would have repaid that money but cannot because it's gone. this is where the idea of an indulgence comes in. surely the theif being true to his repentance will perform works in accordance with it, but the church seeing his repentance and knowing that he cannot really repay what was stolen, may by their own abilities, help the theif in paying back the "temporal effects" of his sin. as such it ultimately is part of christ working in them, the church, and comes indirectly to the theif from the cross. christ has prepared good works, the good works are done to help the ones in need and in the end even the temporal effects of sin, can be reduced and erased. (this happens while on earth or in purgatory and while i know that is a whole different problem for you, i know that you can see the logic behind it.)
the short of it is that indulgences are really a way of saying that in the body of christ, we are all supposed to help one another, either by prayers or helps. everytime you pray you intercede for another person. you pray for your brother who is backslidden or who stumbles or struggles, well your not saving him.. he has already repented and been forgiven, but he still needs your help. right? of course right.
[1]You are calling a catholic priest who is a Dr of theology, A aniti-catholic bone head, Because it was a catholic Dr of theology that I have heard.
[2]When a thief is found he has to restore sevenfole, So instead of us losing out, We gain.
[3]You said,
christ has prepared good works, the good works are done to help the ones in need and in the end even the temporal effects of sin, can be reduced and erased. (this happens while on earth or in purgatory and while i know that is a whole different problem for you, i know that you can see the logic behind it.)
SCRIPTURES PLEASE.
[4]You said,
the short of it is that indulgences are really a way of saying that in the body of christ, we are all supposed to help one another, either by prayers or helps. everytime you pray you intercede for another person. you pray for your brother who is backslidden or who stumbles or struggles, well your not saving him.. he has already repented and been forgiven, but he still needs your help. right? of course right.
We can pray for people But not take their sins.
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Member since 01/25/2012
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Here is how the "world" interprets personal indulgences:
http://www.amazon.com/Indulgence-Day-Simple-Spoil-Yourself/dp/1605501522
Here are a few examples of how the Catholic Church interprets indulgences:
Reading of Sacred Scripture
Recitation of the Marian Rosary (Rosarii marialis recitatio)
Exercise of the Way of the Cross
Adoration of the Most Blessed Sacrament
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PM
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Location: USA
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Contact:
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Catechism of the Catholic Church:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a4.htm#1471
Obtaining indulgence from God through the Church
1478 An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins. Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity.90
1479 Since the faithful departed now being purified are also members of the same communion of saints, one way we can help them is to obtain indulgences for them, so that the temporal punishments due for their sins may be remitted.
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[1]You are calling a catholic priest who is a Dr of theology, A aniti-catholic bone head, Because it was a catholic Dr of theology that I have heard.
if he is anti catholic then he isn't a priest g4.
quote:
[2]When a thief is found he has to restore sevenfole, So instead of us losing out, We gain.
and if he couldn't? anyway your shift into making a theif pay for his own salvation is amazing g4.
quote:
[3]You said,
christ has prepared good works, the good works are done to help the ones in need and in the end even the temporal effects of sin, can be reduced and erased. (this happens while on earth or in purgatory and while i know that is a whole different problem for you, i know that you can see the logic behind it.)
SCRIPTURES PLEASE.
you must not know the bible because if you did you would know this already.
quote:
[4]You said,
the short of it is that indulgences are really a way of saying that in the body of christ, we are all supposed to help one another, either by prayers or helps. everytime you pray you intercede for another person. you pray for your brother who is backslidden or who stumbles or struggles, well your not saving him.. he has already repented and been forgiven, but he still needs your help. right? of course right.
We can pray for people But not take their sins.
and this is the classic proof of how ignorant you are. you have answered me with your bias and not based on what i said. it is classic anti catholic ignorance at work and sadly your too blind to even grasp the fact. no one said anything about prayers taking away their sins. it's your skewed understanding trying to force a false argument.
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
Catechism of the Catholic Church:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a4.htm#1471
Obtaining indulgence from God through the Church
1478 An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins. Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity.90
1479 Since the faithful departed now being purified are also members of the same communion of saints, one way we can help them is to obtain indulgences for them, so that the temporal punishments due for their sins may be remitted.
___________________________________________________________________
1478 An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus,
____________________________________________________________________
So what did God's people do for those 300-600 years before the catholics were formed???
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1479 Since the faithful departed now being purified are also members of the same communion of saints,
____________________________________________________________________
[A]If one isn't already pure before the leave the world, They will never be pure, They are in hell.
[B]We, [Born agian Christians], already have the same communion of the saints, As we are saints.
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one way we can help them is to obtain indulgences for them, so that the temporal punishments due for their sins may be remitted.
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[A]Scriptures please.
[B]That does way with the death and blood of Jesus, The forgiving grace and mercy of God.
[C]It is saying, "God, You way isn't good enough, We don't believe you so we'll do it our way".
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[1]You are calling a catholic priest who is a Dr of theology, A aniti-catholic bone head, Because it was a catholic Dr of theology that I have heard.
if he is anti catholic then he isn't a priest g4.
quote:
[2]When a thief is found he has to restore sevenfole, So instead of us losing out, We gain.
and if he couldn't? anyway your shift into making a theif pay for his own salvation is amazing g4.
quote:
[3]You said,
christ has prepared good works, the good works are done to help the ones in need and in the end even the temporal effects of sin, can be reduced and erased. (this happens while on earth or in purgatory and while i know that is a whole different problem for you, i know that you can see the logic behind it.)
SCRIPTURES PLEASE.
you must not know the bible because if you did you would know this already.
quote:
[4]You said,
the short of it is that indulgences are really a way of saying that in the body of christ, we are all supposed to help one another, either by prayers or helps. everytime you pray you intercede for another person. you pray for your brother who is backslidden or who stumbles or struggles, well your not saving him.. he has already repented and been forgiven, but he still needs your help. right? of course right.
We can pray for people But not take their sins.
and this is the classic proof of how ignorant you are. you have answered me with your bias and not based on what i said. it is classic anti catholic ignorance at work and sadly your too blind to even grasp the fact. no one said anything about prayers taking away their sins. it's your skewed understanding trying to force a false argument.
Give me the truth about indulgences, AND STOP BEATING AROUND THE BUSH.
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- -1209reputation
- 6723 Posts
Member since 03/06/2010
Location: United Kingdom
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- -1209reputation
- 6723 Posts
Member since 03/06/2010
Location: United Kingdom
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
Catechism of the Catholic Church:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a4.htm#1471
Obtaining indulgence from God through the Church
1478 An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins. Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity.90
1479 Since the faithful departed now being purified are also members of the same communion of saints, one way we can help them is to obtain indulgences for them, so that the temporal punishments due for their sins may be remitted.
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a4.htm#1471
Anyone with one eye and half a brain can see how evil that is.
You catholics must be really really blinded by the devil
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quote:
Give me the truth about indulgences, AND STOP BEATING AROUND THE BUSH.
bwellmysoul already provided that for you. like i said in my fist post.. do your homework. why are you so lazy that you would allow youtube to tell you what to believe. i don't care if its a priest or not... youtube is people that are laze get mis educated.
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anyone with one eye and half a brain can see how faulty your claims are g4.
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Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[quoteAnyone with one eye and half a brain can see how evil that is.
Your responses lack charity toward other people. Apparently, faith "alone" covers and excuses uncharitable words and defamations of character.
Apparently faith "alone" also excuses temperal consequences for words and actions.
Even though Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew 12:36 states:
"For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
Edited by bwellmysoul on 03/02/2012 09:12:33
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
anyone with one eye and half a brain can see how faulty your claims are g4.
There you go again..TELLING LIES.
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[quoteAnyone with one eye and half a brain can see how evil that is.
Your responses lack charity toward other people. Apparently, faith "alone" covers and excuses uncharitable words and defamations of character.
Apparently faith "alone" also excuses temperal consequences for words and actions.
Even though Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew 12:36 states:
"For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
My words are truth And God is my justifier, It looks like the truth I tell you is getting to you.
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