Why did God ask Abraham to sacrifice Isaac?
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I do not believe that there is a simple answer to this question. In my opinion, the answer lies within the attributes of God and the reason for Sacred Scripture. This question has haunted me for years and after attending the vigil liturgy on Saturday I revisited it.
tim
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quote:
Originally posted by keeper49
I do not believe that there is a simple answer to this question. In my opinion, the answer lies within the attributes of God and the reason for Sacred Scripture. This question has haunted me for years and after attending the vigil liturgy on Saturday I revisited it.
So God could offer His Son, Jesus.
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An interesting answer G4 and a simple one. God's plan for the salvation of man was always to send the Son to be sacrificed at the hands of men.
God can do whatever he wants(as long as what He does is "good"). While the story of Abraham and Isaac foreshadows the sacrifice at Calvary; it wasn't a prerequisite event. However, it does show the integrity of God in that He would not ask of us something that He would not give Himself. 
tim
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quote:
Originally posted by keeper49
An interesting answer G4 and a simple one. God's plan for the salvation of man was always to send the Son to be sacrificed at the hands of men.
God can do whatever he wants(as long as what He does is "good"). While the story of Abraham and Isaac foreshadows the sacrifice at Calvary; it wasn't a prerequisite event. However, it does show the integrity of God in that He would not ask of us something that He would not give Himself.
God couldn't and can't do whatever He wants.
He gave the earth and the authority to men, And man gave it to the devil, And through it man lost his eternal life.
So God made way to get man's eternal life back, So He made a covenant with Abraham.
A covenant is, I will give you what I have and you give me what you have.
Abraham gave his son to be sacrificed so God could leagally get Jesus into the world to be sacrificed.
God had to do it that way otherwise the devil could have acused God of going against His word, And rightly so.
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Don't you remember,satan has always gone before the throne and accused God's people of being weak and tempted easy. God did this because he wanted to see just how much Abraham would go through to prove his OBEDIENCE to God. God was going to make him the ruler and ancestor of many NATIONS.He was very important to him and he needed to see just how OBEDIENT he would be.He was willing to let him in on a little secret of his own, on how it feels to give your son up for the love of God and forgiveness of sins.A prelude of what was to come he himself would have to go through.B3
baby3
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Originally posted by baby3
Don't you remember,satan has always gone before the throne and accused God's people of being weak and tempted easy. God did this because he wanted to see just how much Abraham would go through to prove his OBEDIENCE to God. God was going to make him the ruler and ancestor of many NATIONS.He was very important to him and he needed to see just how OBEDIENT he would be.He was willing to let him in on a little secret of his own, on how it feels to give your son up for the love of God and forgiveness of sins.A prelude of what was to come he himself would have to go through.B3
It is true that God was looking for Abraham's obedience.
Abraham had to obedient for God's plan of getting Jesus into the earth.
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Oh my.
quote:
God couldn't and can't do whatever He wants.
Sure He can...if you read my response you will see I added as long as it was "good".
quote:
He gave the earth and the authority to men, And man gave it to the devil, And through it man lost his eternal life.
So God made way to get man's eternal life back, So He made a covenant with Abraham. A covenant is, I will give you what I have and you give me what you have.
Not so sure your definition of covenant describes the Abrahamic covenant correctly. It seems to me it was mostly an unconditional arrangement.
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Abraham gave his son to be sacrificed so God could leagally get Jesus into the world to be sacrificed.
God had to do it that way otherwise the devil could have acused God of going against His word, And rightly so
This hardly explains the reason for God asking Abraham to sacrifice his son, but it does shed light on the Pharisaical attitude of your faith.......
tim
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quote:
Don't you remember,satan has always gone before the throne and accused God's people of being weak and tempted easy. God did this because he wanted to see just how much Abraham would go through to prove his OBEDIENCE to God. God was going to make him the ruler and ancestor of many NATIONS.He was very important to him and he needed to see just how OBEDIENT he would be.
God always knew that Abraham would be obedient just as He knew that Adam and Eve would fall. So God did not need to know how obedient Abraham would be.
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He was willing to let him in on a little secret of his own, on how it feels to give your son up for the love of God and forgiveness of sins.A prelude of what was to come he himself would have to go through.
This is more like what God was trying to reveal not just to Abraham but to all mankind.
tim
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tim. my thought is that the story is to provide several pictures, or symbols that would be understood when the incarnation came. the picture that is most evident is of course the sacrifice of his son. isaac carried wood to his place of sacrifice which is in the "hills of moriah" i have thought that this hill may have in fact been the exact location of the crucifixion. there is also a tie in with the attributes of faith that abraham is credited with in the new testament. faith wasn't just assent but action. his works validated his faith and that image is essential. another aspect is that abraham trusts god for his promise. like adam and eve he is given a choice and where a and e chose to disobey in something very simple, abraham obeyed with something that must have been very difficult. he knew the promise of god and trusted god to provide...
in the end if there was no story of abraham and his son, then these pictures would have been lost when the son of god took his wood and carried it to calvary. god has always places signs and symbols in his work and in salvation history... in creation as well as in those who trusted him in the bible.
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Absolutely Mike. The entirety of Sacred Scripture is a revelation of Gods plan for man's salvation. The center and summit of which is Jesus Christ. Scripture records God testing Abraham but we know from basic doctrine that God knows all things, therefore, this test of Abraham was for our benefit and understanding (and possibly for Abraham as well).
tim
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There is another reason as well. Aside from prefiguring what was to come, it was also a lesson for Abraham and the era he lived in.
During that time many false religions surrounding Abram required human sacrifice. One of the most horrific was spoken against throughout the OT, and involved the sacrifice of one's own children. When God asked this of Abraham, his most likely thought was that this God was like the other "gods", but when God stayed his hand, God revealed that He was not like any other "god". God revealed to Abraham a powerful truth by which HE stood apart from the false gods and set a standard by which false gods could be judged.
The Bible has such richness and depth to it.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by keeper49
Oh my.
quote:
God couldn't and can't do whatever He wants.
Sure He can...if you read my response you will see I added as long as it was "good".
quote:
He gave the earth and the authority to men, And man gave it to the devil, And through it man lost his eternal life.
So God made way to get man's eternal life back, So He made a covenant with Abraham. A covenant is, I will give you what I have and you give me what you have.
Not so sure your definition of covenant describes the Abrahamic covenant correctly. It seems to me it was mostly an unconditional arrangement.
quote:
Abraham gave his son to be sacrificed so God could leagally get Jesus into the world to be sacrificed.
God had to do it that way otherwise the devil could have acused God of going against His word, And rightly so
This hardly explains the reason for God asking Abraham to sacrifice his son, but it does shed light on the Pharisaical attitude of your faith.......
1)If God could do what He wants, He would make you leave the catholic church...NOW that will be a good thing.
If God could do what He wants, He would heal all the sick, He would feed all the hungry, He would stop people doing horible things.
They all are good things.
2)You said.
quote:
.
Not so sure your definition of covenant describes the Abrahamic covenant correctly. It seems to me it was mostly an unconditional arrangement.
And,
This hardly explains the reason for God asking Abraham to sacrifice his son, but it does shed light on the Pharisaical attitude of your faith.......
[End quote].
That's because you don't know the Bible.
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quote:
Originally posted by keeper49
quote:
Don't you remember,satan has always gone before the throne and accused God's people of being weak and tempted easy. God did this because he wanted to see just how much Abraham would go through to prove his OBEDIENCE to God. God was going to make him the ruler and ancestor of many NATIONS.He was very important to him and he needed to see just how OBEDIENT he would be.
God always knew that Abraham would be obedient just as He knew that Adam and Eve would fall. So God did not need to know how obedient Abraham would be.
quote:
He was willing to let him in on a little secret of his own, on how it feels to give your son up for the love of God and forgiveness of sins.A prelude of what was to come he himself would have to go through.
This is more like what God was trying to reveal not just to Abraham but to all mankind.
Do you realise what you said and believe??
If God knew Adam and Eve would fall, That makes Him responsiblefor everthing that is bad.
If God knew that He would create man and they would sin,fall and cause all the suffering to mankind, That makes your god [Small g] an evil god.
But the catholic god is evil, Thats why he started the catholic chirch.
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if god didn't know those things then he isn't omnipotent g4.. and is nothing more than a blind pagan god.. which apparently is what you worship...? this is one of the areas that many modern sects really land hard on.. they don't comprehend truth and so end up compromising god. you cannot see any other options than to end up blaming god for everything if he truly is omnipotent, which is really the argument of the world. (it's basically the same whining of greatestiam2).
i think what you find most in the non catholic world, as usual are extremes. you have those who think god is so far in control that there is no freewill and those who think god isn't in control and freewill is all. the ancient church was more paradoxical. it believes in grace and freewill, omnipotence and freedom, predestination and mans volition. the world can only see this as a logical problem and yet to me it makes perfect sense how both are true.
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
if god didn't know those things then he isn't omnipotent g4.. and is nothing more than a blind pagan god.. which apparently is what you worship...? this is one of the areas that many modern sects really land hard on.. they don't comprehend truth and so end up compromising god. you cannot see any other options than to end up blaming god for everything if he truly is omnipotent, which is really the argument of the world. (it's basically the same whining of greatestiam2).
i think what you find most in the non catholic world, as usual are extremes. you have those who think god is so far in control that there is no freewill and those who think god isn't in control and freewill is all. the ancient church was more paradoxical. it believes in grace and freewill, omnipotence and freedom, predestination and mans volition. the world can only see this as a logical problem and yet to me it makes perfect sense how both are true.
1)You said.
[Quote].
they don't comprehend truth and so end up compromising god. you cannot see any other options than to end up blaming god for everything if he truly is omnipotent, which is really the argument of the world.
[End quote].
It is you who doesn't comprehend the truth, and blames God for everything that hapens.
2)Yor ignorance of the scriptures causes you to believe that God knew what would happen to Adam & Eve before He created them, Making God the author of all the bad things that came throught Adam's fall.
3)Just like God has the capacity to not remember our sins,
Isaiah 43:25. Jer 31: 43, He has the capacity to chose not to know certain things.
There are enough scriptures that prove this.
One of them is Gen 6: 5-7.
[A]If God knew that men would be evil before He created them, Why would He creat them. V5.
[B]If God knew He would repented of creating man, Why would He creat man? V6.
[C]Ig God knew He was going to be God grieved, Why would He creat man in the forst place?. V6.
If God knew before, He would have also known He would have been grieved, And He would have repented, And that doesn't make sense.
So why would He creat man in the fist place??.
God didn't know where Adam was, Gen 3: 8-9.
He didn'know He eat of the forbiden tree, V 11.
Or is God just playing games??.
God only knew Abraham would obey Him when Abraham was about to slay Isaac, Gen 22: 12.
Or id God playing games??.
If God knew the children of Israel were going to be so rebelious and corrupt when He brought them out of Egypt that He was going to destroy them, Why would He have bothered in the first place??.
Ex 32: 7-10.
If He knew He was going to change His mind after Moses had interceeded for Israle,Why would He say it in the first place??, v14.
Or is God just playing games??.
Jesus was God yet He didn't know certain things, Whereas at other times He did know things.
Jesus didn't know The fig tree had no fruit on it, Mk 11: 12--14.
He didn't know who touched Him. Mk 5: 28.
Jesus didn't know how many loaves they had. Mk 6: 38.
Jesus didn't know when the end of the word was going to hapen.
Mk 13: 32.
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quote:
Do you realise what you said and believe??
Of course I know what I said which I believe. God knows everything, everywhere and every when. This is baby food for believers as far as doctrine is concerned, probably what St. Paul was talking about.
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If God knew Adam and Eve would fall, That makes Him responsiblefor everthing that is bad.
NO, it makes man responsible. Every evil in this world is a direct result of man usurping God's authority outside what God had already given.
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If God knew that He would create man and they would sin,fall and cause all the suffering to mankind, That makes your god [Small g] an evil god.
But the catholic god is evil, Thats why he started the catholic chirch.
If your God did not know that man would sin, he is not God. You are a perfect example of a person seeing the sliver in another's eye and failing to notice the beam in thine own. Here we have a would be born again who portends to know greek and fails to understand basic tenets of what or who God is.
Yes God knew and knows every choice you or anyone will ever make that's why He is the Supreme being.
Think about how much God must love us knowing we would fall. It's mind boggling.
tim
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