OK Explain John 19:26-27
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 I was very hurt today when I was reading about the crucifiction of the Lord and what was said by him before his death I was taught that it was John he was addressing and according to the Catholic bible and church it was never proven and it could have been John the Apostle or John the other guy! Yeah this is jerking me around from what I learned what is happening to the churches they spend more time denying the bible then teaching the truth! Screw the churches! Liars and rotten thieves!B3 No one really knows the real truth I'd rather take my chances then go down believing a lie!
baby3
Edited by baby3 on 04/15/2012 12:56:45
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And it sounds like your priest may be a heretic. You may want to discuss this with a few other parishoners and approach him. If this does not work, you may need to approach the Bishop.
Not to worry, there are heretics among us, and the Bible even warned that false teachers would come, and some even from within. This is expected. But, the good news is that Jesus is the Head of this Church and the Holy Spirit guides it. The heretics will not prevail and usually end up drawn out of the Church as has happened many times in the past.
It may be a bumpy ride for the next little bit as there is a great spiritual battle unfolding. Hold onto your faith and trust in Christ, but do not expect to be safe in your own home. There is no safer place that the Sheepfold that Christ established for us. Satan is a wolf that wants to lure Christ's sheep out of the sheepfold so that he can ensnare them. Those that are within are safe.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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When does the Catholic Church try to prove the Bible wrong??
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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News to me too.
As for the passage, it is our Catholic Tradition that this was the Apostle John, author of this Gosple account, that Jesus was addressing. The book does not say, but it is my understanding that this was intentional. John does not identify himself, or anyone else in that position as it may have been his intent that every Christian be able to insert him or herself into that role. To imagine ourselves being given Mary as our Mother.
There is some speculation that the Book of Revelation may have been written by a different John, another follower other than the Apostle John, because of its different writing style, but that is just speculation.
The Holy See is not trying to challenge the Bible or make it confusing for any one. But what you may be getting confused by is the speculation of Biblical scholars who are always challenging the scriptures and trying to figure things out. Scholars may have their uses, but they are NOT infallible and do not speak for the Church.
And, they may even change their minds or argue amongst themselves.
If you put twelve Biblical Scholars in a room and poll them on any particular issue, you will get thirteen different responses.
Don't let the scholars get in the way of your faith. They are full of themselves and that is their nature. Just be concerned when they try to tell you that Jesus never really rose from the dead or that He did not really feed 5000 with five loaves and two fish. Some have done that - I don't recall what church they belonged to, Catholic or non-Catholic - but, these are not the first scholars to turn into heretics, and they won't be the last.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
Edited by Faith_at_Large on 04/14/2012 19:21:11
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The John that was put on the isle of Potumus was he and I was under the impression it was the same John Jesus was very fond of .B3
baby3
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quote:
Originally posted by baby3
I was very hurt today when I was reading about the crucifiction of the Lord and what was said by him before his death I was taught that it was John he was addressing and according to the Catholic bible and church it was never proven and it could have been John the Apostle or John the other guy! Yeah this is jerking me around from what I learned what is happening to the churches they spend more time denying the bible then teaching the truth! Screw the churches! Liars and rotten thieves!B3 No one really knows the real truth I'd rather take my chances then go down believing a lie! Catholics are always trying to prove the bible is wrong and they are right and they dismiss what ever they want cause they feel they own it all Yep and all the sins that go with it to!I hate crooks and liers!
catholics believe the Bible, So the say, And tradition, The tradition is, "Whatever the catholic church says", And they belive what they say has just as much authority as the Bible does.
Thats why they have teachings that aren't in the Bible.
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quote:
Originally posted by baby3
The John that was put on the isle of Potumus was he and I was under the impression it was the same John Jesus was very fond of .B3
The Island of Patmos. And it may well be the same John.
John the Beloved Disciple took care of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and lived with her in Ephesis. I am not sure if this is the exact same John who was exiled to Patmos, but I am inclined to believe that this is the same John.
The Catholic Church has not defined this one way or another. It is just speculation on the part of some that there may be two different Johns writing for the Bible.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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baby, I believe the John at the cross is St. John, author of the Gospel of John and the book of Revelation. And nothing can change my mind about that (apart from the discovery of a signed copy of those books saying they are a different John... or other person or people). Scholars like to analyze the language used and say it's all different people and later additions, etc. I don't doubt there were minor additions in the later copies but not anything that substantially changed the teachings of our Lord.
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quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
When does the Catholic Church try to prove the Bible wrong??
OK The priest at my church told me the bible wasn't used as much any more and that John was tampered with so it is not true scriptures. Honest he said this.
baby3
Edited by baby3 on 04/15/2012 13:04:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
News to me too.
As for the passage, it is our Catholic Tradition that this was the Apostle John, author of this Gosple account, that Jesus was addressing. The book does not say, but it is my understanding that this was intentional. John does not identify himself, or anyone else in that position as it may have been his intent that every Christian be able to insert him or herself into that role. To imagine ourselves being given Mary as our Mother.
There is some speculation that the Book of Revelation may have been written by a different John, another follower other than the Apostle John, because of its different writing style, but that is just speculation.
The Holy See is not trying to challenge the Bible or make it confusing for any one. But what you may be getting confused by is the speculation of Biblical scholars who are always challenging the scriptures and trying to figure things out. Scholars may have their uses, but they are NOT infallible and do not speak for the Church.
And, they may even change their minds or argue amongst themselves.
If you put twelve Biblical Scholars in a room and poll them on any particular issue, you will get thirteen different responses.
Don't let the scholars get in the way of your faith. They are full of themselves and that is their nature. Just be concerned when they try to tell you that Jesus never really rose from the dead or that He did not really feed 5000 with five loaves and two fish. Some have done that - I don't recall what church they belonged to, Catholic or non-Catholic - but, these are not the first scholars to turn into heretics, and they won't be the last.
So if he gave his mother to another then he gave up all flesh and was going to the Father to live in the Spirit,so Mary was no longer his mother that is the way I am taking this,why would you be right? It is a nice thought but how do we know?For sure?B3
baby3
Edited by baby3 on 04/15/2012 13:03:07
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No. Mary will always be His mother.
He gave Mary into the care of John so that His mother would be looked after in her old age because Jesus was returning to His Father and would not be on earth to do this earthly duty of every son.
By giving Mary to us as our mother, she became the mother of the whole Church and all Christians just as Jesus is our Brother. This is the Family of God.
Jesus is our brother, we are brothers and sisters in Christ, and Mary is our mother and His mother.
And God is our Father.
Every covenant that God has made with man has been a family bond. This has always been His intention. And now it is perfected.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
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quote:
Originally posted by baby3
I was very hurt today when I was reading about the crucifiction of the Lord and what was said by him before his death I was taught that it was John he was addressing and according to the Catholic bible and church it was never proven and it could have been John the Apostle or John the other guy! Yeah this is jerking me around from what I learned what is happening to the churches they spend more time denying the bible then teaching the truth! Screw the churches! Liars and rotten thieves!B3 No one really knows the real truth I'd rather take my chances then go down believing a lie!
 You know I tried to take this off but your stupid site put it right back on why?????? Now that's stupid!!
baby3
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Just about every Catholic bible I've seen, including the NAB and the RSV-CE, show that John refers to himself when discussing "the apostle whom Jesus loved".
Here's the note from the NAB:
quote:
This scene has been interpreted literally, of Jesus’ concern for his mother; and symbolically, e.g., in the light of the Cana story in Jn 2 (the presence of the mother of Jesus, the address woman, and the mention of the hour) and of the upper room in Jn 13 (the presence of the beloved disciple; the hour). Now that the hour has come (Jn 19:28), Mary (a symbol of the church?) is given a role as the mother of Christians (personified by the beloved disciple); or, as a representative of those seeking salvation, she is supported by the disciple who interprets Jesus’ revelation; or Jewish and Gentile Christianity (or Israel and the Christian community) are reconciled.
John 13:23 also refers to the disciple whom Jesus loved, and this has traditionally be interpreted as John the son of Zebedee, the author of this Gospel. There is no other Apostle named John.
Where are you reading that the Catholic Church teaches otherwise? All I have ever been taught in the Catholic Church is that Christ is giving Mary to John for him to care for, and John, representing the Church, receives Mary as his (and our) mother.
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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