Where in the bible does it say faith alone saves?
-
-
New Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 04/22/2012
James 2:14-26
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
[b]My protestant brother's you say to me that if you have faith you will have works and that works flow from faith. Can you Explain to me why James even talks about this if its not even possible to have faith without works and he says that it is dead. Why did he even write this passage if it isn't even possible to have faith without works and why does he say it's dead. So does that mean you can believe in Jesus and proclaim he is lord (Faith) and be dead? does dead in this mean salvation? Also why is it the only place in the bible it says faith alone it's in the verse above saying faith alone is dead. no where else in the bible does it say faith alone. So faith alone saves isn't in the bible and is added by men the ALONE part was added because it says faith saves it doesn't say faith ALONE correct? Or am I wrong?
-
-
- -1209reputation
- 6713 Posts
Member since 03/06/2010
Location: United Kingdom
quote:
Originally posted by Kingofkings
James 2:14-26
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
[b]My protestant brother's you say to me that if you have faith you will have works and that works flow from faith. Can you Explain to me why James even talks about this if its not even possible to have faith without works and he says that it is dead. Why did he even write this passage if it isn't even possible to have faith without works and why does he say it's dead. So does that mean you can believe in Jesus and proclaim he is lord (Faith) and be dead? does dead in this mean salvation? Also why is it the only place in the bible it says faith alone it's in the verse above saying faith alone is dead. no where else in the bible does it say faith alone. So faith alone saves isn't in the bible and is added by men the ALONE part was added because it says faith saves it doesn't say faith ALONE correct? Or am I wrong?
[1]James isn't talking about salvation.
The Greek word for, "Saved", Has many meanings.
It means,
Save, Matt 1: 21.
Deliered from the sea & storm. Matt 14: 30.
Healed. Lk 18: 42.
Just to give you an idea of the meaning of "Save".
[2]If James was talking about salvation, That means,
Feeding and clothing people,
Offering up your son to be killed, And,
Protecting people, Will get you saved.
So if you want to get saved, Go and feed/clothe people, Kill your son and protect people, Then you'll be saved.
Can't you see how the catholics twist what James is saying??.
Just like the twist all the Bible.
What James is saying, Is,Faith withour corisponding actions isn't anyy good on it's own.
For instance, If you was in a wheelchair and had faith to be healed, You'll sit there all the time believeing your healed,Until you put actions to your faith, And get up and start to walk.
James 2: 22. says, Abraham's faith was activated by his corisponding actions.
Where does the Bible say we are saved by anything other then faith??.
Jn 3: 16. Rom 3: 22--28. Eph 2: 8--9. Titus 3: 5. All say By faith alone.
-
-
Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 01/30/2007
Location: United Kingdom
You appear to know less about Catholic teaching as time goes on! Faith expressed in works is exactly the Church's position. One flows from the other, and the two are so interlinked that it becomes impossible to separarte them. But, unlike so many of your dirt-floor brethern, the Church does not say that salvation relies on a human mental affirmation resulting in gibberish, but is entirely a work of God with which we are enabled to cooperate.
Ad Maioram Dei Gloriam
-
-
- -1209reputation
- 6713 Posts
Member since 03/06/2010
Location: United Kingdom
quote:
Originally posted by philial
You appear to know less about Catholic teaching as time goes on! Faith expressed in works is exactly the Church's position. One flows from the other, and the two are so interlinked that it becomes impossible to separarte them. But, unlike so many of your dirt-floor brethern, the Church does not say that salvation relies on a human mental affirmation resulting in gibberish, but is entirely a work of God with which we are enabled to cooperate.
[1]You said,
[Quote].
Faith expressed in works is exactly the Church's position. One flows from the other, and the two are so interlinked that it becomes impossible to separarte them.
[End quote].
I know that is what the erroneous catholics teach, But it isn't what the Bible teaches.
[2]No Born again Christian is saying anything about,
"salvation relies on a human mental affirmation resulting in gibberish".
The rebirth is new brand new creation in Christ Jesus, A new alive unto God Spiritual rebirth, It has nothing to do with the mental affermation.
With my mind, I believed in Jesus long believe I found out about how to get saved, But my mental knowledge didn't get me saved.
It was my rebirth that got me saved.
You are just proving that you don't know what salvation is.
-
-
Fourth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 01/17/2007
Location: USA
Then what do you call true faith? You claim faith alone and then claim mental affirmation (faith alone) is gibberish. Then of course you think that faith is completely your own doing. Thus, you were born again because of your own doing.
So either you believe in faith alone or you don't. When you start adding qualifications to faith or make up an unbiblical term like a "saving faith", to describe a quality of faith, you are adding to faith alone. Faith alone means faith + nothing which is shown all over scripture to be a false teaching and never affirmed a single time.
Paul says the faith to move mountains, speaking in the tongues of angels etc. without charity is a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. Faith and Hope and all gifts eventually pass away, leaving only charity.
He also says the only thing that matters is faith which worketh through charity. God is love, and therefore you can not see Him as He is without love. The picture of Jesus hanging dead on the cross is one of pure love.
Remember how James describes faith without works as a body without a spirit? This verse threw Luther, the inventor of justification by faith alone into a tirade against James.
Faith alone is compared to dead corpse without an animating spirit. Works are compared to the spirit which activates faith. Luther said that James had it backwards. Sorry, but I trust the inspired James over a German nationalist with severe mental issues.
This clearly is addressed to those who were already born from above.
To say that when James says that faith alone is dead and rhetorically says that the faith devoid of acting upon that faith can't save, I could really care less about your manipulating of the word save to suit your purposes. If he meant some other kind of salvation and justification, he wouldn't be using faith in conjuction with these terms.
Show me two scriptures that use faith in regards to salvation and justification which clearly show all three as having non eternal consequences.
Since you cannot, you violate your own rules again.
-
-
Contact:
Member since 03/26/2010
quote:
Originally posted by Kingofkings
James 2:14-26
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
[b]My protestant brother's you say to me that if you have faith you will have works and that works flow from faith. Can you Explain to me why James even talks about this if its not even possible to have faith without works and he says that it is dead. Why did he even write this passage if it isn't even possible to have faith without works and why does he say it's dead. So does that mean you can believe in Jesus and proclaim he is lord (Faith) and be dead? does dead in this mean salvation? Also why is it the only place in the bible it says faith alone it's in the verse above saying faith alone is dead. no where else in the bible does it say faith alone. So faith alone saves isn't in the bible and is added by men the ALONE part was added because it says faith saves it doesn't say faith ALONE correct? Or am I wrong?
 This is the way I have believed all my life that the two go together,like love and marraige!Blessings and Peace! B3
baby3
-
-
Contact:
Member since 03/26/2010
For you render to each one according to his works. -- Psalm 62:12
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. -- Matthew 16.27
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. -- Revelation 20:12-13
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. -- 2 Corinthians 11:15
The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. -- 1 Peter 1:17
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? -- James 2:14, 17, 20, 24, 26
I will give unto every one of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:23
Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work. -- Revelation 22:12
B3
baby3
-
-
- -1209reputation
- 6713 Posts
Member since 03/06/2010
Location: United Kingdom
quote:
Originally posted by jdubya
Then what do you call true faith? You claim faith alone and then claim mental affirmation (faith alone) is gibberish. Then of course you think that faith is completely your own doing. Thus, you were born again because of your own doing.
So either you believe in faith alone or you don't. When you start adding qualifications to faith or make up an unbiblical term like a "saving faith", to describe a quality of faith, you are adding to faith alone. Faith alone means faith + nothing which is shown all over scripture to be a false teaching and never affirmed a single time.
Paul says the faith to move mountains, speaking in the tongues of angels etc. without charity is a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. Faith and Hope and all gifts eventually pass away, leaving only charity.
He also says the only thing that matters is faith which worketh through charity. God is love, and therefore you can not see Him as He is without love. The picture of Jesus hanging dead on the cross is one of pure love.
Remember how James describes faith without works as a body without a spirit? This verse threw Luther, the inventor of justification by faith alone into a tirade against James.
Faith alone is compared to dead corpse without an animating spirit. Works are compared to the spirit which activates faith. Luther said that James had it backwards. Sorry, but I trust the inspired James over a German nationalist with severe mental issues.
This clearly is addressed to those who were already born from above.
To say that when James says that faith alone is dead and rhetorically says that the faith devoid of acting upon that faith can't save, I could really care less about your manipulating of the word save to suit your purposes. If he meant some other kind of salvation and justification, he wouldn't be using faith in conjuction with these terms.
Show me two scriptures that use faith in regards to salvation and justification which clearly show all three as having non eternal consequences.
Since you cannot, you violate your own rules again.
[1]Mental assent is what catholics and other false religions have.
Born again Christians have heart faith, Paul said if you believe with your heart.[Not your mind].
Eph 2: 8--9 says we are saved by grace through faith, Not works.
Rom 10: 9-10 says if you believe with you heart confess with your mouth, You will be saved.
But the catholics say, NO..NO.. The Bible isn't true, We have to do works, Then they misquote James.
[2]God told Luther that we are justified by faith alone.
[3]You are twisting what James said, He isn't talking about works salvation, Read my previous post.
[4]Here are the three scripturs the prove salvation/justification by faith alone.
Rom 3: 22--28. Eph 2: 8--9. Titus 3: 5.
Where do you find "Works" in those scriptures??
-
-
- -1209reputation
- 6713 Posts
Member since 03/06/2010
Location: United Kingdom
quote:
Originally posted by baby3
quote:
Originally posted by Kingofkings
James 2:14-26
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
[b]My protestant brother's you say to me that if you have faith you will have works and that works flow from faith. Can you Explain to me why James even talks about this if its not even possible to have faith without works and he says that it is dead. Why did he even write this passage if it isn't even possible to have faith without works and why does he say it's dead. So does that mean you can believe in Jesus and proclaim he is lord (Faith) and be dead? does dead in this mean salvation? Also why is it the only place in the bible it says faith alone it's in the verse above saying faith alone is dead. no where else in the bible does it say faith alone. So faith alone saves isn't in the bible and is added by men the ALONE part was added because it says faith saves it doesn't say faith ALONE correct? Or am I wrong?
This is the way I have believed all my life that the two go together,like love and marraige!Blessings and Peace! B3
I agree, But not for salvation.
False religion rely on works because they think the Bible's teaching of simply believing, Isn't true, They think it is to good to be true.
So they do works to think they are self-justifying themselves, And think that is acceptable to God.
-
-
- -1209reputation
- 6713 Posts
Member since 03/06/2010
Location: United Kingdom
quote:
Originally posted by baby3
For you render to each one according to his works. -- Psalm 62:12
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. -- Matthew 16.27
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. -- Revelation 20:12-13
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. -- 2 Corinthians 11:15
The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. -- 1 Peter 1:17
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? -- James 2:14, 17, 20, 24, 26
I will give unto every one of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:23
Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work. -- Revelation 22:12
B3
Works, YES, But not for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
For a Catholic, faith is not mental assent. Your ignorance is showing again.
It is largely from Protestants that say that we only have to accept Jesus as our saviour once, and that this saves us permanently.
For a Catholic, Faith is so much more than that, and we are called to take up our cross daily, not just once. That we must continue to believe and live out that belief in Faith, through Faith and with Faith. And the result is salvation IN Christ, through Christ and with Christ.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
-
-
- -1209reputation
- 6713 Posts
Member since 03/06/2010
Location: United Kingdom
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
For a Catholic, faith is not mental assent. Your ignorance is showing again.
It is largely from Protestants that say that we only have to accept Jesus as our saviour once, and that this saves us permanently.
For a Catholic, Faith is so much more than that, and we are called to take up our cross daily, not just once. That we must continue to believe and live out that belief in Faith, through Faith and with Faith. And the result is salvation IN Christ, through Christ and with Christ.
[1]catholics do only have a mental essent to their interpretation of salvation.
There certainly is no heart revelation knowledge in a catholic, Otherwise they would get saved and leave the eroneous catholic church.
[2]The Bible say we only accept Jesus as saviour once,If we do it more then once, We are treading underfoot the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10: 29.
And crucify Jesus again. Heb 6: 4-6.
[3]Unlike catholics, Christians are ALREADY saved,
1 Cor 1: 18. Eph 2: 8. Titus 3: 3.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
G4Me,
You need to stop with your snide anti-Catholic comments.
And to do that you need to find Spiritual control over your emotions.
You are sinning against the Body of Christ with your negative attacks on Catholics and I assume you do this with other non-Pentecostals that you attempt to communicate with.
Your behavior here is anti-Christ.
Jesus came to remove sin, because sin is the sole damaging factor that separates us from each other and from God's will for us.
It is sinful - the way that you treat and speak to other Christians.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 04/24/2012 08:51:26
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
G4Me,
Of what good is your faith in God when your works here prove that you don't love other Christians?
Are you "saved" even after your continual displays of negative and unchristian attitude toward other people?
-
-
Contact:
Member since 03/26/2010
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by baby3
For you render to each one according to his works. -- Psalm 62:12
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. -- Matthew 16.27
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. -- Revelation 20:12-13
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. -- 2 Corinthians 11:15
The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. -- 1 Peter 1:17
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? -- James 2:14, 17, 20, 24, 26
I will give unto every one of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:23
Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work. -- Revelation 22:12
B3
Works, YES, But not for salvation.
Hi,You know what none of you think of when you find things are contrary to the bible or in the bible? You don't think of where Paul or Peter might have been when they were talking to different churches and what questions may have been asked at the time we only have half of what was said not any responses from anyone there or if they had problems with some trying to hop the fence to get closer f =to God by doing more then others so they can get a slap on the back from Paul or some other. Think!!! B3
baby3
|
|
Subscribe by Email
RSS