What was wrong with Luther....?
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“Be a sinner and sin boldly!” “Let your sins be strong!” “Sin bravely!” These striking words from Martin Luther are perhaps the most frequently quoted against him, particularly by Roman Catholics. For instance, Father Patrick O’Hare stated, “If the author of such an infamous suggestion as is involved in the words ‘sin boldly’ was not a child of Satan, none ever labored so strenuously in advancing his soul-destroying principles.”[1] More than a few Catholic authors have accused Luther of teaching a wanton lawlessness of sinning boldly. It is a common charge against him. Some argue, if justification is by faith alone, aren’t Christians free to sin as much they want? People need not concern themselves with how they live their lives; God has forgiven all their sins. It is probably the case that Luther simply invented the doctrine of justification by faith alone in order to justify his immoral life. http://tquid.sharpens.org/sin_boldly.htmLuther really preached this? You see what happens when you 'interpret' the bible on your own. This guy started protestantism... People agree with this guys teachings... This is almost as disgusting as when Muhmmad told his soldiers it's okay to rape women captives and it's okay to do it well their husbands watch.
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sorry didn't link all of it
"Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here in this world we have to sin. This life is not a dwelling place of righteousness"
"No sin will separate us from the lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day."
"Whenever the devil harasses you, seek the company of men or drink more, or joke and talk nonsense, or do some other merry thing. Sometimes we must drink more, sport, recreate ourselves, and even sin a little to spite the devil, so that we leave him no place for troubling our consciences with trifles. We are conquered if we try too conscientiously not to sin at all. So when the devil says to you: do not drink, answer him: I will drink, and right freely, just because you tell me not to."
"The imputation of righteousness we need very much, because we are far from perfect. As long as we have this body, sin will dwell in our flesh. Then, too, we sometimes drive away the holy spirit; we fall into sin, like Peter, David, and other holy men. Nevertheless we may always take recourse to this fact, that our sins are covered, and that God will not lay them to our charge. Sin is not held against us for Christ's sake."
"your sin cannot cast you into hell"
"No sin can harm me"
http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/reformers.htm
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This is really contrary to Paul as well as to James. In 1 Cor 6:9-10 Paul enumerates the chief great sins and sinners: "No fornicators, idolaters, or adulterers, no sodomites, or those who lie with males, no thieves, misers or drunkards, no slanderers or robbers will inherit God's kingdom."
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Since when has the devil ever told anyone not to sin?
Even from his younger days in seminary, Luther tended to go through periods of elation and depression, spending time pouring through the books to the expense of all his other duties and then feeling enormous guilt for having shirked his duties. He would go to extremes to repent of his perceived sins even though his superiors never asked for any such measures.
He strikes me very much as a manic depressive - bipolar disorder. But, while I would like to imagine that insanity is his defence, I have trouble with the lies that he has told. Manic-depression does not make one a liar like this.
He said that he had never seen a Bible before discovering a dust-covered, never used, Bible in the Library. That is not possible. The rules of his order required that he read the Bible regularly. Everyone else in his order was obedient to this rule and were reading the Bible. He had access, he was required to read it, and would have been told this from the beginning of his entry into that order. This is documented. We have the records from that era.
When the Bible did not say what he wanted it to say, he made his own addition to make it work to his liking and when challenged on this, he got beligerant and said that he would have it so.
He made a vow of celibacy when he became a priest. Whether or not he liked this vow, he made it before God. The vow was permanently binding, and yet he broke it and encouraged a nun to violate her vows as well.
Manic-Depression can make one do crazy things, but there are limits.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Hey stop making up crap for his condition it sounds more like his eyes were a little red most of the time after all the church is known for drinks and make their own so maybe he had delusions of grander my dear!It does scare me to know he said this **** though:( OK Wheres the paper work on this??? There might be some nosy people watching that might want the proof after this has been a war ever since and i might say a frugal one at that! B3
baby3
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By the By! President Lincoln had Major problems and his wife but that didn't stop him from being a great President did it? Bipolars are fun people and if you say another thing about them I will go to Canada and slap your stupid tong!Robin Williams is wonderful and Jim Carey to allot of people are mentally ill but some that have never been diagnosed are the worst ones Faith!
baby3
Edited by baby3 on 04/28/2012 15:16:14
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Baby3, I have had the pleasure of knowing some very nice people who were bipolar.
If you read the rest of what I had written, I indicated that the lying and deception and arrogance that Luther displayed were not part of this condition. But they do explain his difficulties as a priest.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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I didn't want to post but whatever here. If this is true it's kinda scary. Was this guy a 1500's Hitler idk? here is the link I got the info from http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/reformers.htm
LUTHER WAS AN ANTI-SEMITE
Here are some quite shocking quotes from Luther which show that he was a rabid anti-Semite:
"The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows, seven times higher than ordinary thieves"
"We ought to take revenge on the Jews and kill them."
"The blind Jews are truly stupid fools"
"Now just behold these miserable, blind, and senseless people."
"eject them forever from this country"
"they are nothing but thieves and robbers"
"What then shall we do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?"
"Such a desperate, thoroughly evil, poisonous, and devilish lot are these Jews"
"They are the real liars and bloodhounds"
"We are at fault for not slaying them."
"I shall give you my sincere advice: first to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them."
"Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed."
"Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews."
"Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them"
"If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs"
"If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the river Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words `I baptize thee in the name of Abraham'."
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I hadn't looked up any quotes on the matter, but I had heard that he was a rather notorious anti-semite. But, while I would hope that this feeling was not universal in the Church, I suspect that Luther was not unique in those views at the time. Just a little more on the edge with them.
The nature of those quotes suggests that the person or persons he was conversing with did not feel the same way.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by Kingofkings
“Be a sinner and sin boldly!” “Let your sins be strong!” “Sin bravely!” These striking words from Martin Luther are perhaps the most frequently quoted against him, particularly by Roman Catholics. For instance, Father Patrick O’Hare stated, “If the author of such an infamous suggestion as is involved in the words ‘sin boldly’ was not a child of Satan, none ever labored so strenuously in advancing his soul-destroying principles.”[1] More than a few Catholic authors have accused Luther of teaching a wanton lawlessness of sinning boldly. It is a common charge against him. Some argue, if justification is by faith alone, aren’t Christians free to sin as much they want? People need not concern themselves with how they live their lives; God has forgiven all their sins. It is probably the case that Luther simply invented the doctrine of justification by faith alone in order to justify his immoral life.
http://tquid.sharpens.org/sin_boldly.htm
Luther really preached this? You see what happens when you 'interpret' the bible on your own. This guy started protestantism... People agree with this guys teachings... This is almost as disgusting as when Muhmmad told his soldiers it's okay to rape women captives and it's okay to do it well their husbands watch.
 One day Luther woke up and he realized he was being made a fool of and he decided to get out of the church because he knew that they were not of God they were killing the Christians since the very beginning and he knew this,so he took what he could for scriptures and half or more of the world has followed him since but they forgot what people went through like labor pains and now they are pregnant again and in trouble.They need to go back to the beginning when the reformation first started and start remembering why!! And who and where! People are way to interested in money to do anything for God any more the almighty dollar will be their end!And your's to!
baby3
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Origins
This detail of a fresco (1481–82) by Pietro Perugino in the Sistine chapel shows Jesus giving the keys of heaven to Saint Peter.Catholic tradition holds that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ . The New Testament records Jesus' activities and teaching, his appointment of the twelve Apostles, and his instructions to them to continue his work.[7] The Catholic Church teaches that the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the apostles, in an event known as Pentecost, signaled the beginning of the public ministry of the Church.[9] While there is no particular narrative of Peter being "consecrated by Jesus," and then by "Peter traveling to Rome founding a church there" in Church tradition, this came to be the Catholic view. Peter is also thought to be Rome's first bishop and the consecrator of Linus as its next bishop, thus starting the line which includes the current pontiff, Pope Benedict XVI. This view is often repeated in the Catholic Church.[10] The narratives of the appointment of the twelve Apostles and the appointing of Matthias as an Apostle are both found directly in the Scriptures.
Exactly when Christians first appeared in Rome is difficult to determine, see Godfearers and Proselytes for the historical background. The Acts of the Apostles claims that the Jewish Christian couple Priscilla and Aquila had recently come from Rome to Corinth when, in about the year 50, Paul reached Corinth,[11] indicating that Christianity in Rome had preceded Paul. While the church in Rome was already flourishing when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Romans to them from Corinth, about AD 57,[12] he greets some fifty people in Rome by name,[13] but not Peter whom he knew. There is also no mention of Peter in Rome later during Paul's two year stay there in chapter 28 of Acts, about AD 60-62. Church historians consistently consider Peter and Paul to have been martyred under the reign of Nero,[14][15][16] in AD 64 such as after the Great Fire of Rome which, according to Tacitus, Nero blamed on the Christians.[17][18] The tradition that the See of Rome was founded as an organized Christian community by Peter and Paul and that its episcopate owes to them its origin can be traced back only as the second-century, with Irenaeus,[19] but there is no conclusive evidence, scripturally, historically or chronologically, that Peter was in fact the Bishop of Rome. Irenaeus does not say that either Peter or Paul was "bishop" of the Church in Rome, and some historians have questioned whether Peter spent much time in Rome before his martyrdom.[20] Oscar Cullmann sharply rejected the claim that Peter began the papal succession,[21] and concludes that while Peter was the original head of the apostles, Peter was not the founder of any visible church succession.[21][22]
Conditions in the Roman Empire facilitated the spread of new ideas. The empire's well-defined network of roads and waterways allowed for easier travel, while the Pax Romana made it safe to travel from one region to another. The government had encouraged inhabitants, especially those in urban areas, to learn Greek, and the common language allowed ideas to be more easily expressed and understood.[23] Jesus's apostles gained converts in Jewish communities around the Mediterranean Sea,[24] and over 40 Christian communities had been established by 100.[25] Although most of these were in the Roman Empire, notable Christian communities were also established in Armenia, Iran and along the Indian Malabar Coast.[26][27] The new religion was most successful in urban areas, spreading first among slaves and people of low social standing, and then among aristocratic women.[28]
At first, Christians continued to worship alongside Jewish believers, which historians refer to as Jewish Christianity, but within twenty years of Jesus's death, Sunday was being regarded as the primary day of worship.[29] As preachers such as Paul of Tarsus began converting Gentiles, Christianity began growing away from Jewish practices[24] to establish itself as a separate religion,[30] though the issue of Paul of Tarsus and Judaism is still debated today. To resolve doctrinal differences among the competing factions within the Church, in or around the year 50, the apostles convened the first Church council, the Council of Jerusalem. This council affirmed that Gentiles could become Christians without adopting all of the Mosaic Law.[31] Growing tensions soon led to a starker separation that was virtually complete by the time Christians refused to join in the Bar Khokba Jewish revolt of 132,[32] however some groups of Christians retained elements of Jewish practice.[33]
The early Christian Church was very loosely organized, resulting in diverse interpretations of Christian beliefs.[34] In part to ensure a greater consistency in their teachings, by the end of the 2nd century Christian communities had evolved a more structured hierarchy, with a central bishop having authority over the clergy in his city,[35] leading to the development of the Metropolitan bishop. The organization of the Church began to mimic that of the Empire; bishops in politically important cities exerted greater authority over bishops in nearby cities.[36] The churches in Antioch, Alexandria, and Rome held the highest positions.[37] Beginning in the 2nd century, bishops often congregated in regional synods to resolve doctrinal and policy issues.[31] Duffy claims that by the 3rd century, the bishop of Rome began to act as a court of appeals for problems that other bishops could not resolve.[38]
Doctrine was further refined by a series of influential theologians and teachers, known collectively as the Church Fathers.[39] From the year 100 onward, proto-orthodox teachers like Ignatius of Antioch and Irenaeus defined Catholic teaching in stark opposition to other things, such as Gnosticism.[40] In the first few centuries of its existence, the Church formed its teachings and traditions into a systematic whole under the influence of theological apologists such as Pope Clement I, Justin Martyr and Augustine of Hippo.[41]
[edit] PersecutionsUnlike most religions in the Roman Empire, Christianity required its adherents to renounce all other gods, a practice adopted from Judaism, see Idolatry. Christians' refusal to join pagan celebrations meant they were unable to participate in much of public life, which caused non-Christians–including government authorities–to fear that the Christians were angering the gods and thereby threatening the peace and prosperity of the Empire. In addition, the peculiar intimacy of Christian society and its secrecy about its religious practices spawned rumors that Christians were guilty of incest and cannibalism; the resulting persecutions, although usually local and sporadic, were a defining feature of Christian self-understanding until Christianity was legalized in the 4th century.[42][43] A series of more centrally organized persecutions of Christians emerged in the late 3rd century, when emperors decreed that the Empire's military, political, and economic crises were caused by angry gods. All residents were ordered to give sacrifices or be punished.[44] Jews were exempted as long as they paid the Jewish Tax. A small number of Christians were executed;[45] others fled[46] or renounced their beliefs. Disagreements over what role, if any, these apostates should have in the Church led to the Donatist and Novatianist schisms.[47] Relations between the Church and the Empire were not consistent: " Tiberius wanted to have Christ placed in the Pantheon and refused first of all to persecute the Christians. Later on his attitude changed. [-] How are we to explain the fact that men like Trajan and above all Marcus Aurelius should have so relentlessly persecuted the Christians? On the other hand Commodus and other villainous emperors rather favoured them."[48] In spite of these persecutions, evangelization efforts persisted, leading to the Edict of Milan which legalized Christianity in 313.[49] By 380, Christianity had become the state religion of the Roman Empire.[50] Religious philosopher Simone Weil : " By the time of Constantine, the state of apocalyptic expectation must have worn rather thin. [The imminent coming of Christ, expectation of the Last Day - constituted 'a very great social danger.'] Besides , the spirit of the old law, so widely separated from all mysticism, was not so very different from the Roman spirit itself. Rome could come to terms with the God of Hosts." [51]
baby3
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