Can you prove through history what is truth?
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 Can anyone really prove through history that the Catholic church is really the church of Jesus Christ? Can anyone disprove this and with facts??? I need real proof because I am about to die inside of me:( Show me!!
baby3
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oh really? mormons give scriptures for what they teach to. the circumcision group paul dealt with gave scriptures for what they preached too. anyone can manipulate the scriptures g4, your proof of that. but because they ignore the scripture, like you, they miss the actual meaning of it. they lack a valid tradition to explain those scriptures and so wallow in private interpretation, like you. and when they get challenged they push for the "infallible" claim, cause god forbid they might be wrong. it has been the laughing stock of all protestantism that they reject the papacy only to make popes of themselves. i say this is funny because they don't even see their hypocricy and neither do you.
and no i didn't mis interpret what that man said.. or the others who also repeated it.. just like i wont misinterpret you for saying the same thing. you judge the man as wanting money to buy booze and drugs and so justify your own greed. you make your own excuses to not give and use stewardship as a divice for your greed. we do have to be wise, but wise enought to know that we aren't psychics. not to mention if your afraid they might spend it on booze then do the christian thing and take him a sandwich or take them to lunch... to be honest i don't even care if they do buy booze with it. cause in reality i'm not giving money to a beggar but to god.. it's no different than giving money to televangelists or pentacostals who just want it to get rich with.
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quote:
Originally posted by baby3
Can anyone really prove through history that the Catholic church is really the church of Jesus Christ? Can anyone disprove this and with facts??? I need real proof because I am about to die inside of me:( Show me!!
The proof of the Real true Church, Is their ability to produce scriptures to back up their doctrines,
And catholics admit that their teachings aren't in the Bible.
Where in the Bible do you find.
Purgatory.
Salvation through infant baptism.
Baptism the catholic way.
Confessing to a priest.
Penance.
Indugencies.
Praying for the departed.
The departed praying for us.
Mary, A co-interceeder.
Maru, A Co-redeemer.
Mary, And ever virgin.
Mary, Sinless.
Mary's bodily accention to heaven.
Pope's.
Priests.
Bishops, [The catholic use of them].
Justification by works and one's ow merits.
NEED I GO ON??.
You only have to read the Bible to prove that the catholic church is false.
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But since the reformation there has been a lot of changes and look at the evangelists of today all out for money and they changed everything that the days of old evangelists did they unwound the spool and now it is all tangled up around their own feet.Haven't you noticed this? B3
baby3
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by baby3
Can anyone really prove through history that the Catholic church is really the church of Jesus Christ? Can anyone disprove this and with facts??? I need real proof because I am about to die inside of me:( Show me!!
The proof of the Real true Church, Is their ability to produce scriptures to back up their doctrines,
And catholics admit that their teachings aren't in the Bible.
Where in the Bible do you find.
Purgatory.
Salvation through infant baptism.
Baptism the catholic way.
Confessing to a priest.
Penance.
Indugencies.
Praying for the departed.
The departed praying for us.
Mary, A co-interceeder.
Maru, A Co-redeemer.
Mary, And ever virgin.
Mary, Sinless.
Mary's bodily accention to heaven.
Pope's.
Priests.
Bishops, [The catholic use of them].
Justification by works and one's ow merits.
NEED I GO ON??.
You only have to read the Bible to prove that the catholic church is false.
All of the above are Scriptural. In Acts and in the writings of the Early Church Fathers you find the universal (Catholic) Church.
Read the writings from the Early Church. These men and woman were practicing Catholicism - belief in the Presence (blood and body of Christ) in the Bread. They Mass they celebrated on Sunday, included the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
Also, early on, in the battle against heresies, you find the Catholic Church.
Read about the development of the canon. Catholic again.
Read the writings from the early Popes. Record of the Apostolic sucession from Peter.
Catholic.
In addition, where is the record of the other 35,000 denominations for 1,500 years?
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Baby,
I will throw in my two cents here. The early church period, by which I mean the period from Christ to around 300 ad, when Christianity became legal as far as the empire was concerned had only a few groups that would fall under the claim of being Christian. There was the catholic/orthodox group, there were gnostics, and ebionite sects and there were the marcionites.
The Gnostics didn't believe Jesus came in the flesh because the physical world was evil. They believed the creator god of the old testament was just a demiurge and was wicked for creating matter. The ebionites were the opposite, they believed Jesus was just a man and not divine. Marcionites were a mix, rejecting the Jewishness of the ebionites for only the Greek scriptures put out by Paul and luke.. The catholic orthodox are left.. Which developed the christology we hold today. The Protestant sects are all derived from the catholic church... They hold, for the most part to its christology, ie the trinity, and their bible is a reduced version of the catholic orthodox canons. in other words their bible came from us and not the Gnostics or marcionites or the ebionites.
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http://www.global.org/Pub/pdf/Abp_Michael_Seneco_Apostolic_Succession.pdf
List of all the popes somewhere in the middle. On the site linked above. It's recorded history honey. Peter(Kepha)they even have his tomb at the center of one of the biggest churches in the world St Peter. Here are some picks http://www.google.com/search?q=peters+tomb&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=tRqfT4DOGIzO9ATEn8WPAQ&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=771&bih=385
Those are some pictures above. They have tons of records it's plain history. No sane person try's to refute the Catholic Churches apostolic succession. Where do you think all the early churches went? They are still there to this day. The only reason Protestant churches exist is they think the church was corrupt. Sure we may of had some bad corrupt priests. But you can't leave the church because of that. The teachings have never changed for 2000 years.
Like I said before. If you have a corrupt priest. The problem is the priest not the church. Jesus left us a church to uphold the truth. The Pillar and Bulwark of the truth. There is only one truth. Not this pick your flavor denomination. Of what you think is truth. He wanted one church unity not chaos. If you read the writings of the church fathers you will see. God bless baby3 I hope you find it home.
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Also God4me before you post more nonsense. You kept saying over and over and over Kepha means stone. You said stone:(A stone that is easily moved or shaken)So I looked up the definition of stone. here you go.
Stone:The hard, solid, nonmetallic mineral matter of which rock is made. Stone is rock thank you for posting it a million times for me. the easily moved of shaken part was a figment of your imagination lol. You can prove me wrong by bringing me a STONE MOUNTAINand placing it behind my house. Then ill convert. So now that you except stone = rock. When are you coming home cause Jesus said.
You are Kepha, and UPONthis kepha I will build my church.
Baby3 look up scott hahn videos on youtube. He is really good at explaining things. I can't compare to him.
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The Church is historic, and there is plenty of evidence for this, but part of the problem is that too many just go to the internet to learn about history and there are lots of liars and deceivers on there.
There is truth too, but it becomes harder to sort out from the garbage.
But, there are sources that agree regardless of whether we are Catholic or Protesant - the writings of the Early Church Fathers as found in the Christian Classics Ethereal Library. This is a Protestant source, and yet it correponds to the Catholic collection found in New Advent.
Except that I would not use the notes on CCEL connected with the writings as they tend to have a Protestant slant, although sometimes amusing.
The early writers provide eye witness testamony to our history. And if you read the writings of Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr, you will find a very Catholic witness to Christianity.
All three of these were in the first three centuries of Christianity so if anyone is trying to tell you that the Catholic Church did not exist until Constantine or later, they are very wrong. The teachings that they condemn as being from Roman influence, were very much present among those whom the Romans were executing before Christianity was legal. And if these men were willing to die for their faith and the way to avoid execution was to capitulate to the Romans, then obviously they were dying for truths they believed in and were not willing to capitulate to the Romans on any matter.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
Edited by Faith_at_Large on 04/30/2012 19:02:12
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
Baby,
I will throw in my two cents here. The early church period, by which I mean the period from Christ to around 300 ad, when Christianity became legal as far as the empire was concerned had only a few groups that would fall under the claim of being Christian. There was the catholic/orthodox group, there were gnostics, and ebionite sects and there were the marcionites.
The Gnostics didn't believe Jesus came in the flesh because the physical world was evil. They believed the creator god of the old testament was just a demiurge and was wicked for creating matter. The ebionites were the opposite, they believed Jesus was just a man and not divine. Marcionites were a mix, rejecting the Jewishness of the ebionites for only the Greek scriptures put out by Paul and luke.. The catholic orthodox are left.. Which developed the christology we hold today. The Protestant sects are all derived from the catholic church... They hold, for the most part to its christology, ie the trinity, and their bible is a reduced version of the catholic orthodox canons. in other words their bible came from us and not the Gnostics or marcionites or the ebionites.
Hey Mike where did the Gnostics come from? B3
baby3
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Protestants did not exist before Martin Luther in the 16th century so before that they have no history in order to proove themselves.
So Protestants can not really prove through history that their denomination is really the church of Jesus Christ
Through bigotry prejudices false assumptions & false premises Protestants are protesting a catholic church made up by Protestantism that does not actually exist.
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by baby3
Can anyone really prove through history that the Catholic church is really the church of Jesus Christ? Can anyone disprove this and with facts??? I need real proof because I am about to die inside of me:( Show me!!
The proof of the Real true Church, Is their ability to produce scriptures to back up their doctrines,
And catholics admit that their teachings aren't in the Bible.
Where in the Bible do you find.
Purgatory.
Salvation through infant baptism.
Baptism the catholic way.
Confessing to a priest.
Penance.
Indugencies.
Praying for the departed.
The departed praying for us.
Mary, A co-interceeder.
Maru, A Co-redeemer.
Mary, And ever virgin.
Mary, Sinless.
Mary's bodily accention to heaven.
Pope's.
Priests.
Bishops, [The catholic use of them].
Justification by works and one's ow merits.
NEED I GO ON??.
You only have to read the Bible to prove that the catholic church is false.
All of the above are Scriptural. In Acts and in the writings of the Early Church Fathers you find the universal (Catholic) Church.
Read the writings from the Early Church. These men and woman were practicing Catholicism - belief in the Presence (blood and body of Christ) in the Bread. They Mass they celebrated on Sunday, included the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
Also, early on, in the battle against heresies, you find the Catholic Church.
Read about the development of the canon. Catholic again.
Read the writings from the early Popes. Record of the Apostolic sucession from Peter.
Catholic.
In addition, where is the record of the other 35,000 denominations for 1,500 years?
They might be in the writings of the early catholic church,
But they weren't in the writings of the TRUE Christian Church.
None of those doctrines are in the Bible.
Forget what the catholic church and the catholic canon say, You have to go by what the Bible says.
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quote:
Originally posted by baby3
But since the reformation there has been a lot of changes and look at the evangelists of today all out for money and they changed everything that the days of old evangelists did they unwound the spool and now it is all tangled up around their own feet.Haven't you noticed this? B3
There are some so-called Evangelists out for money.
But the catholic church has been after money for centuries.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kingofkings
http://www.global.org/Pub/pdf/Abp_Michael_Seneco_Apostolic_Succession.pdf
List of all the popes somewhere in the middle. On the site linked above. It's recorded history honey. Peter(Kepha)they even have his tomb at the center of one of the biggest churches in the world St Peter. Here are some picks http://www.google.com/search?q=peters+tomb&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=tRqfT4DOGIzO9ATEn8WPAQ&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=771&bih=385
Those are some pictures above. They have tons of records it's plain history. No sane person try's to refute the Catholic Churches apostolic succession. Where do you think all the early churches went? They are still there to this day. The only reason Protestant churches exist is they think the church was corrupt. Sure we may of had some bad corrupt priests. But you can't leave the church because of that. The teachings have never changed for 2000 years.
Like I said before. If you have a corrupt priest. The problem is the priest not the church. Jesus left us a church to uphold the truth. The Pillar and Bulwark of the truth. There is only one truth. Not this pick your flavor denomination. Of what you think is truth. He wanted one church unity not chaos. If you read the writings of the church fathers you will see. God bless baby3 I hope you find it home.
[1]How can there be a catholic pope succession when the catholic church didn't start untill at least, 300-600 years leater, And the pope even later??. WAKE UP.
[2]There is only ONE Church and one truth, And that is the TRUE Church, Not the catholic church who admit that there doctrines aren't in the Bible..WAKE UP.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kingofkings
Also God4me before you post more nonsense. You kept saying over and over and over Kepha means stone. You said stone:(A stone that is easily moved or shaken)So I looked up the definition of stone. here you go.
Stone:The hard, solid, nonmetallic mineral matter of which rock is made. Stone is rock thank you for posting it a million times for me. the easily moved of shaken part was a figment of your imagination lol. You can prove me wrong by bringing me a STONE MOUNTAINand placing it behind my house. Then ill convert. So now that you except stone = rock. When are you coming home cause Jesus said.
You are Kepha, and UPONthis kepha I will build my church.
Baby3 look up scott hahn videos on youtube. He is really good at explaining things. I can't compare to him.
Do you ever stop telling lies??, It's a good job you are already going to hell.
For the truth about what Jesus built His Church on, See my posts on it.
I will watch Scott Hahn to see what lies he tells.
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quote:
Originally posted by michael
Protestants did not exist before Martin Luther in the 16th century so before that they have no history in order to proove themselves.
So Protestants can not really prove through history that their denomination is really the church of Jesus Christ
Martin Luther started a reformation of the protestants, But there was Christians before that, There has always been Christians since the day of pentecost.
You are getting ptotestants mixed up with Christians.
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